No Tax on Veg !!

Just found out Inland Revenue has changed the Tax laws on Vegi powered cars / 4X4's. Anyone using less than 2500 litres doesn't have to pay duty, - changed 17 june 2007.

No **** sherlock!

some green bloke wer spotin off bout that last week !

Aye an its gone up 15% this year and judging by the crops that are going rotten in the fields cos of all the rain it'll be going up a lot more in the near future.

...Still cheaper than diesel tho !

Aye but for how long, i wuz reading somewhere that because of increased production of biofuels most foodstuffs that are made from cerials and vegetable oil will go up like fook in the near future cos we can't produce enough of it to keep prices down.

Disc300Series said:

Just found out Inland Revenue has changed the Tax laws on Vegi powered cars / 4X4's. Anyone using less than 2500 litres doesn't have to pay duty, - changed 17 june 2007.

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Bloody hell not again. The laws that have changed refer to small PRODUCERS of BIODIESEL, which straight veg oil isn't, and not to the USE of such fuels in ROAD VEHICLES. If they catch you using veg oil in your car and you haven't payed the duty they will TAKE YOUR VEHICLE OFF YOU.

Hi,

I afraid your incorrect, We run a company selling conversion kits and this is a direct quote from the 'Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs'

Quote from HMRC 'Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs confirmed to Working Lunch that vegetable oil bought from retailers as fuel will be exempt from duty, as long as drivers don't exceed the 2,500 litre annual threshold.'

Hope this clears up all the confusion VEG OIL IS A TAX EXEMPT ROAD FUEL provided you personally don't use more that 2500 litres.

Regards

Mike Gaylor.

Sunshine Fuel - Diesel to Vegetable oil conversions

hughesy said:

Bloody hell not again. The laws that have changed refer to small PRODUCERS of BIODIESEL, which straight veg oil isn't, and not to the USE of such fuels in ROAD VEHICLES. If they catch you using veg oil in your car and you haven't payed the duty they will TAKE YOUR VEHICLE OFF YOU.

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right then,mr conversion kit expert, the bit that matters is quoted in yer previous post

mikegaylor said:

vegetable oil bought from retailers as fuel will be exempt from duty,

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now seen as sainsbury's et al sell the stuff as cooking oil then yer argument is flawed. i dont think i have ever seen any retailer selling "vegetable car fuel" but no doubt yer gonna come back and tell me that you do. but that aint a testimony. i'd like to hear of nyone else apart from conversion boy here that has ever seen vegetable car fuel for sale

Hi,

I am not going to argue with you, We have spoken to HMRC and they have comfirmed that this is FACT. IF you don't beleive me ring them. !! We have been running on SVO and have spoken to HMRC and we sell conversion kits but what do we know ?

Regards

Mike Gaylor

yella said:

right then,mr conversion kit expert, the bit that matters is quoted in yer previous post

now seen as sainsbury's et al sell the stuff as cooking oil then yer argument is flawed. i dont think i have ever seen any retailer selling "vegetable car fuel" but no doubt yer gonna come back and tell me that you do. but that aint a testimony. i'd like to hear of nyone else apart from conversion boy here that has ever seen vegetable car fuel for sale

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I int seen "Vegetable oil road fuel" but Ah have got an email off HMC&R saying ah can put tesco's finest straight into my fuel tank without paying any tax on it.

Below is a copy of the email

Date 22 August 2007



Reference C9508



Dear Joseph



Biofuels Simplification



Thank you for your e-mail dated 12 August 2007 regarding the use of vegetable oil in your car and whether you have to register with H M Revenue and Customs [HMRC].



I can confirm that if you use less than 2,500 litres of Straight Vegetable Oil [SVO] [new and unused rapeseed vegetable oil, Tesco cooking oil, etc] per annum as road fuel in your diesel car, you will not have to pay any excise duty to HM Revenue & Customs.



Please find below further details regarding the changes to the bio diesel regulations for your information.



The changes brought in under the ‘Biofuels Simplification’ [Revenue and Customs Brief 43/07] whereby producers of biofuels (or other fuel substitutes) who produce (or use) less than 2,500 litres per annum, will no longer be required to make entry, render returns or pay duty, are intended to cover both those who produce or use biofuels (such as biodiesel, or bioethanol), and those who produce or use other ‘fuel substitutes’ (such as vegetable oil).



Anyone producing (or using) more than 2,500 litres per annum will have to make entry of their premises (register), render returns and pay duty.



The Simplification is intended to include in the relaxation all those who use ‘vegetable oil’ in their vehicles (as a fuel substitute). They will not have to make entry of their premises, render returns or pay duty, and will become ‘exempt’ producers. They will however remain liable to register, render returns and pay duty, when they know that their production (or use) of biofuels or other fuel substitutes (such as vegetable oil) will exceed 2,500 litres per annum.



In short for the purpose of the ‘Biofuels Simplification’ we do not differentiate between those who produce ‘Biodiesel’ meeting the fiscal definition in HODA, and those who produce a Fuel Substitute (Biofuel) which does not. Both are covered by the relaxation. Thus the relaxation covers those ‘producers’ who ‘use’ or who put vegetable oil into their fuel tank (as a fuel substitute).



Where producers or users will exceed 2,500 litres per annum, then they need to make entry of their premises, render returns and pay duty in accordance with Public Notice 179e (which is currently being amended to reflect the recent changes).



For those producers who are ‘registered’ there will remain a continuing requirement for them to show that the fuel that they produce (or use) is Biodiesel (and meets the fiscal definition in HODA) and where this is not the case, they will continue to be liable to the higher rate of duty on the biofuel they produce (or use) at the higher Fuel Substitute rate.



Revenue and Customs Brief 43/07

HM Revenue & Customs: Follow up to Revenue & Customs Brief 37/07 on Biofuels Simplification



Public Notice 179E

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000205



I hope the above information is satisfactory, but if you have any further queries regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact the address shown above quoting our reference number.



Yours sincerely







Mr D J Emmerson

Written Enquiries Officer



Excise publications are available from our website or the VAT, Excise and Customs Duties Helpline (08450 109000).




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 12 August 2007 17:38
To: Enquiries {ESTN}
Subject: AO S EICS ( cAPTURE NO POSTCODE)Use of SVO as a road fuel



Please can you confirm the current position with regards to the use of Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) as a replacement fuel in road going vehicles? As I understand it I can use 2500l of svo in my car without having to pay any duty on the use of the SVO. I also understand that I can simply buy the oil from any supermarket or wholesalers and simply pour it into my vehicles fuel tank, without having to modify it in anyway. Is this the actual legal position? Please do not refer me to current HMR&C bulletins or notifications as I find that they are misleading unintelligible and inconclusive. A simple layman’s explanation will suffice.



I do not have a vat registration number, Nor do I have a permanent UK address at the present time..





I await you reply.





Joseph.

Also look at this article written by the BBC

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Kickstart for biofuel drivers

Regards

Mike Gaylor

ere pikey, put a copy of yer email up fer all to see. personally i wouldnt beleive it until ive seen it in black and white, like i said the way i read it is how i posted in me last thread. if i see it different in black and white then fair play

yella said:

ere pikey, put a copy of yer email up fer all to see. personally i wouldnt beleive it until ive seen it in black and white, like i said the way i read it is how i posted in me last thread. if i see it different in black and white then fair play

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yella

Read the email from redhand

A couple of posts back This confirms it from the HMRC.

Regards

Mike Gaylor

Ok, so heres a question about using oil - do you need the converstion kit or can you put it straight in? If you do need a convertion kit, 1 how much does it cost to buy and then fit? 2. Can you then use desiel and oil, or oil only?

EbonynIvory said:

Ok, so heres a question about using oil - do you need the converstion kit or can you put it straight in? If you do need a convertion kit, 1 how much does it cost to buy and then fit? 2. Can you then use desiel and oil, or oil only?

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depends what injin ur sticking it in I stick it in my 200tdi mixed 2ltr oil 1 ltr diesel but some people run it 100% oil. It'll run fine without a conversion kit as long as it isn't too cold. the more diesel you've put in the mix the less likely you are to have problems starting it in the winter.

EbonynIvory said:

Ok, so heres a question about using oil - do you need the converstion kit or can you put it straight in? If you do need a convertion kit, 1 how much does it cost to buy and then fit? 2. Can you then use desiel and oil, or oil only?

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If using low % of Veg oil 5-10% mixed with diesel then in most instances you can just put it in the tank and go, no conversion nessesary. The conversion is only nessesary when you wish to run on 100% veg oil. Although some injection pumps are more forgiving than others (Bosch is the most forgiving) I would certainly not recomend high % oil without conversion. The cost of the kit depends on the coversion but for a 1 valve kit with our Heat Exchanger cost £157.00 or a 2 Valve Kit £232.00 you would need in addition a second tank (small plastic tank approx £30.00) and fuel / water hose. The install could be done by just about anyone that can use a spanner and a screwdriver.

One tank would be for diesel to start and stop the vehical and the second tank for Veg Oil. After the engine and heat exchanger are up to temp the light comes on in the dash and you flick over to veg for the remainder of the journey then before you stop you flick back to diesel ready to start again.

See our site Sunshine Fuel - Diesel to Vegetable oil conversions

If I can be of any help then please do not hesitate to contact me.

Hope this helps a little

Best Regards

Mike Gaylor.

mikegaylor said:

If using low % of Veg oil 5-10% mixed with diesel then in most instances you can just put it in the tank and go, no conversion nessesary. The conversion is only nessesary when you wish to run on 100% veg oil. Although some injection pumps are more forgiving than others (Bosch is the most forgiving) I would certainly not recomend high % oil without conversion.

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yes but your slightly biased. aren't you?
There are plenty of people out there running 80/90 and even 100% with no problems and no conversion kit.

redhand said:

depends what injin ur sticking it in I stick it in my 200tdi mixed 2ltr oil 1 ltr diesel but some people run it 100% oil. It'll run fine without a conversion kit as long as it isn't too cold. the more diesel you've put in the mix the less likely you are to have problems starting it in the winter.

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I aggree with redhand, just check what injector pump you have if it's any of the fragile ones like the Lucas, treat it carfully not too much veg especially in the winter, they are prone to failure with the thick oil. - and it will be a very expensive experiment if your IP pump fails.

Mike

redhand said:

yes but your slightly biased. aren't you?
There are plenty of people out there running 80/90 and even 100% with no problems and no conversion kit.

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Yes I am slightly biased, but I would not even risk my own car Injection Pump for the small amount of effort to convert and even if you make all the bits yourself rather than buying a conversion kit it is still worth doing. A new injection pump will cost between £500 - £2000 depending on make and model of the vehical and new /recon pump.
Running on 100% veg without conversion (even if the pump survives) Will damage the rest of your engine as cold Veg is to thick to acheive the correct spray patern in your engine and this will lead to ring gumming and eventual failure. It's not IF it will fail it's When.
If you want to start on cold veg oil then there are several things you need to do to preserve you engine and pump change the injector pressure and modify the Injector Pump and change the injectors with a modified injector spray patern (this is no easy task)

Personally I think it's easier just to get the engine up to temp and heat the oil to lower the viscosity.

Regards

Mike

Will it work on a TD5???
there have been a few posts on here about biodiesel not being suitable for a TD5 engine so presumably veg wont be suitable either?? does anyone know why this is??