First Pay & Play day - advice?

Hi all,

My mate and I are planning on attending our first offroad “Pay & Play” day in a few weeks time, and were wondering if there’s anything we should do to the vehicles before going.

I’m in a ’91 Range Rover Classic and my mate is in a ’95 Discovery 1, both are 3.9i V8’s. We’ve got good nearly-new tyres on both cars (Goodyear Wranglers M+S on the front and Hankook A/T’s on the rear of mine, Pirelli Scorpion A/T’s all round on the Disco) but other than that the cars are completely standard.

The course is graded in white, red/white, red and black routes – we’ll be sticking to the white and red/white routes I imagine, which are suitable for road vehicles. Red is for more experienced drivers and black routes are if you want to get stuck – and you need a roll cage and helmet to do that!!

Anyway, we’ve got a tow strop each (5T rated), and were thinking of fitting shackles to the fronts of both cars – do we need to remove the lower front bumpers on both vehicles for this? And where’s the best place on the chassis to mount them (should be the same for both vehicles?)?

On the rear we’ve both got towbars which should be OK for towing each other out if nothing else! I don’t think the routes will be aggressive enough for us to get proper stuck, but better to be prepared and all that.

We’ll obviously take wellies, a bottle of water to wash off lights and number plates afterwards, etc but is there anything else we should do to the cars before going? Or anything else we should be taking with us?


Cheers![FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Hi......hmmmm....My best advice is....take a basic tool kit.....then take your time, get out and have a look before you drive a particular route (it's much better to watch other people get stuck than charge in yourself), look for stuff in the ground that can rip your tyre wall, be aware of the other trucks as sometimes it gets a bit hectic and don't get too close to vehicles your following, let them clear the obstacle before you commit yourself........................

And finally, don't make the mistake (as my brother did) of "if that Suzuki can get through so can i!"

He found himself and and his very shiney new toy being extracted sideways by two Discoverys from the bottom of a gully, minus one door mirror and plus two style modifications to the side and rear of his P38.

I've had several Classics and found them to be amazin off road with a bit of thought.

Have a great day.

Nick.

Cheers Nick! Yes toolkit was on the list, just forgot to mention it - useful!! I also bought a breaker bar and 27mm socket to keep in the boot, as mine didn't come with a wheelbrace - helpful!

I've found the Classic to be superb in the snow and up a green lane, so I think it'll be grand on a pay & play day - and the Disco is basically the same car, just has bigger tyres!

One thing - I've seen a lot of Classic owners remove the front bumper before going offroading - is this really necessary? And does it just bolt off (and thus can be bolted back on again!) or do you have to cut it off? Also, is the towbar an issue when going up steep ascents?

Cheers!

hi,
are you goin to the 4x4withoutaclub site by any chance?
i went to my first pay and play site the other day in my standard disco, and on the way in they checked for front and rear recovery points, secure battery and fire extinguisher but i didn't have that obviously so they just said make sure you have one for next time.i also first had a walk round to check out what it was like. But once in i was amazed what it could do. yes i also had the philosophy of if a suzuki (vitara) can do it why cant i and this was the result i got stuck, front valance ripped of and had to get winched out hehe so i would say take the valance off first and make sure your recovery points are there. to put jate rings on you just remove one of the bottom bolts that holds the bumper on and replace it with the jate ring. and then have fun!

That’s the one Tom, down near Thatcham isn’t it? Is that where that photo was taken? And was that on a red or red/white course?

Didn’t realise you need proper recovery points but would be a good idea – not sure where to mount them on a Classic, anyone give me some photo’s/pointers? Sounds like I may have to remove my front bumper after all, if only to fit the recovery points!

I've seen those JATE rings as an alternative to shackles - they replace the weedy standard towing eye on the front, and suitable for recoveries - is that what you used? At the bottom of this page: Famous Four - Shackles JATE Rings and Lifting Eyes

You going again on the 13th Tom?

no this was taken at the oxley shaw tv4x4's club home site it was labelled hard section and so it was. yes i have put some jate rings on and ordered some shackles but still arent here yet but might cancel and get them from famousfour as there cheaper and higher tonne rating than rebel4x4. i think the chassis is the same on both so i would of though mounting points are the same.

Yeah, think you're right about the chassis being the same. So where did you mount the JATE rings? Did you replace your towing/tie-down eyes with them or bolt them on somewhere else on the chassis? How come you're fitting shackles as well?

Sorry for all the questions - sure it's really obvious when all done!!

i mounted the jate ring by taking the bottom bolt that holds on the metal bumper to the chassis then just replaced it with the jate ring. and i ordered the shackles to tie the recovery straps to the jate ring

OK, makes sense! My thought was if I could replace the towing eye with a jate ring then I could leave the front bumper in place, keeping the car standard looking but with all the necessary bits and pieces for offroading in place!

well when i put my jate ring on with all the front bumper in place and there was a hole in the front valance allowing me to access the jate ring it could be the same on yours.

Hi.

We're essentially talking about approach and departure angles......which is the limit on attacking or leaving bumps or inclines........front valances are susceptable to knocks when you approach stuff so be wary and tow hitch's are usefull and a pain as they are the first thing to hit the floor when you go up stuff after the front valance clears the obstacle turning into a gentle reminder that your on your limit of departure angle or they dig in and halt forward progress (or ground anchor as i like to call them!).

The trick is to increase the angle of stuff you try get over till your familiar with your classic's ability and your abilty to gauge an ostacle.

Front Skirt........You can take them off but you have to unbolt them, but if you are carefull and don't employ too much ground speed when you drive at obstacles then the suspension doesn't compress fully when you hit the lump which effectively lowers the car (bottoming out) until the suspension returns to it's normal height........the other side of this is if you don't have enough ground speed you may not make the climb/obstacle and have to come back down the hill backwards......this is a little daunting the first time and there is a specific method for doing this. Practice makes perfect and i'm sure you'll have loads of fun even using caution.....tis a nice feeling coming home having not turned the car upside down!!!!!

Any more help just ask.

Nick.

That technique of coming back down may be useful!! Fancy sharing?! Haha! Although I know to stay in the ruts, as this guy demonstrates all too well: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IER3GnW4BgU"]YouTube - How to back up your 4WD in the outback[/nomedia]

I'm sure mine will be fine on the white and red/white courses in standard trim to be honest - can't wait!

Decided I'm gonna fit some of those jate rings to the front of the Rangie, should be able to fit those with the front bumper in place.

I pm'd you.......that is exactly what i'm talking about, and that hill on first look doesn't look too bad.......

I'm staying at home!!

Cheers for the PM, all good stuff!

Id take the valance off if it aint rusted.The fogs just unclip.If you put the jate rings on the front then wont pulling the rope taught damage the valance?The rear towbar will plough, but it also protect a little from bumps at the rear and is good for recoveries on. Cos you got v8s take a tin of wd40 and spray almost everything with it.

After asking identical questions on this site I followed some advice from another member and purchased a steering guard which incorporated 2 recovery points. I think once you have been out a few times you'll get he taste for it and end up buying one anyway. I've managed to put a bend in mine already, better the guard than the steering arms.
Oh the front valance on my D1 lasted one lane then put too much pressure on fixings (to the front wings) which then become damaged. valance off, end caps trimmed (Demmel)
Photos are before and after.
Have fun

goonarmy said:

Id take the valance off if it aint rusted.The fogs just unclip.If you put the jate rings on the front then wont pulling the rope taught damage the valance?The rear towbar will plough, but it also protect a little from bumps at the rear and is good for recoveries on. Cos you got v8s take a tin of wd40 and spray almost everything with it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, was gonna dose everything electrical with WD40, just in case!! is it ok to spray it in the dizzy cap? TBH, I doubt i'll be going through any deep water, but I know even in just a couple of feet of water the fan can spray it everywhere! Also got a plastic cover over the battery, which should keep the terminals dry.

I think you're right about the jate rings on the front - gonna have a good look underneath the front valence tonight. How's it held to the top bumper then, just a few screws? Or is it a PITA to remove and refit?!

Thanks Mike, you've found out some usefull stuff for us here.
Front bumper is coming off this weekend and i'll get some Jate rings to put on the front and possibly rear too. Need to get a fire ext by the sounds of it aswell!

looking forward to it.

My advise is more about the day itself, than the preparation of your vehicle.

Take it steady, build up to stuff gradually, and be careful who you take advice from.

I made the mistake on one of my first outings of getting hooked up with the club c*ckend, and diligently following advice got my old classic thoroughly stuck. His insistence that we could 'drive it out' then saw the engine cooked, and head gasket blown...

Older and wiser now i would take a couple of opinions into account now, or be very wary of the bloke who seems to have been left on his own, yet is very keen to 'help'.

MW

hi guys

i have a v8 disco so i know the water side of things well

mine it quite modified and will make water crossings with relative ease (although it still scares the **** out of me cos you never know!) but a standard igntion system is a nightmare.

my advice is this for first time v8 offroaders:

yes, remove anything you expect to get ripped off anyway. if the chances are that you will get the offroading bug, then remove them anyway, you'll probably never replace! so that goes for front valance, mudflaps, rear corner trims? (not sure if rangey has them)

fit recovery points: front yep, remove bottom bumper bolt and fit jates. steering guard is optional if you take it steady. if you dont smash into things you'll be reet. i have chosen not to have one as it alters my approach capabilities - but those who like to smash their way out of holes may disagree!



if you need to tow, keep the tow ball, but otherwise just remove it. it will hinder your forward progress. rear jate rings fit into the chassis either side of the fuel tank, in the holes where the side stays for the towbar are bolted to.



also, if attempting recover a very stuck vehicle, bridle up the rope/strop to spread the load between both jates, as they are not hugely strong.

and now for ignition. without a snorkle you will not attempt anything more than top of tyre depth, and to be honest in a v8 you'll be pushing your luck with the viscous fan attached. i use electric fans which i can switch off when crossing water, to minimise engine wetting.



im afraid wd40 does little for keeping an engine going, it soon wahes off, believe me! it helps to have it in case you need to to help the engine restart though.

my ingenious device is a 2ltr coke bottle. take the bottle, empty it into a few mugs and share it around, enjoy the flavour, its good. wash it out, then remove the label. take a sharp stanley and cut a good circle around the neck of the bottle, removing the neck completely. cut about a 40mm hole around the neck. then cut the bottom of the bottle off completely, cut about 3" off - this is up to the lowest ridge in the bottle i think. THEN slice vertically up the side of the bottle from the bottom edge to the ring, completely splitting the bottle.

you will now have a very distributor sized water shield.

this is difficult to fit round the dizzy but believe me with enough persuasion it fits well. punch a few holes in it round the top edge and secure with elastic bands to various places. once it heats up it will from to shape nicely for next time.

the principal is that it stops the dizzy getting jetwashed by the fan. it wont make it invincible as once it gets deep enough it floods round it anyway, but for you guys it will prevent a little puddle spoiling your day.

i use it every time i go offroad and would be dubious about doing so without it.

it looks like this:



another thing i would recommend is diff guards, you can 2 for 30 quid off ebay, to me its not worth the hassle of damaging a diff pan, which can easily happen, for the sake of 30 quid. and theyre a doddle to fit, just push on and tighten up.



as ever, there's lots more to do, but i reckon that should get you boys onto a nice day out.

cheers.