Does oil in red plug really have effect on performance?
- Thread starter Protei
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Believe me - clean it all as best as possible.
Clanforbes
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Oil may well be a good electrical insulator when spotlessly clean, but believe us when we say clean it. Once it is contaminated by fine particles of carbon, metal and whatever else then it will short out the tiny signals involved in some of the pins in the ECU's plug and these include you injector control signals.
For instance, the tiny pulsed signal that comes from your CKP (crankshaft position sensor) is so small that the cable is screened to prevent other electrical interferences disrupting it. If yer ECU cannae get the signal then yer engin aint gonna go nowhere............My oil in harness problem was so severe that not only was the ECU plug full of oil, so were the blue header connectors in the same loom, as was the CKP sensor and the bottom of my seat box was, although not swimming in oil, it was very wet.
It killed my Defender several times until I put in a new injector harness (easy to do and a new genuine LR one is about £40) and finally the oil stopped re-appearing and everything has been good since then. Oh, and I also replaced the CKP sensor and ran an earth wire directly from the battery -ve to the earth point under the seat as I'd been getting some funny error codes on my diagnostics.
Since then she has been running like a train.
Clanforbes
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I had a lot of problems with my TD5 shortly after I got her, and I went through all the electrical side of things first as most errors seemed to be related to that, cleaning the oil out of the red plug cured a mis-fire that happened at higher revs. However, when she did go, she always started on the first touch of the key and she would run like a train, but she had a habit of dying for no apparent reason and then would usually refuse to go for almost exactly 48 hours.
The problem in the end was ****e and crap in the tank blocking the intake filters on the fuel pump. Replacing the fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator was my last-ditch attempt to cure it before I was gonna move on to replacing the ECU.
In the process of hunting down the problem, I got to know my engine pretty well. I replaced the EGR with a removal kit. I replaced a duff MAF sensor and I also found three relays, the two under the seat and the fuel pump one which had contact points that were in very poor condition so they got replaced as well.
Since then, apart from a dead starter a couple of weeks ago, she has been terrific. Though there are a few things still waiting to be done. My reverse light doesn't work nor does my diff lock light, but I am sure the diff is locking up ok. The rest is cosmetic.
The best advice I got was from Shifty, he was spot on with his help & advice which he gives so freely that he should be knighted IMHO.
All this took me 4 months to find the problem but perseverance got there in the end. It can be quite demoralising each time you think you have cured it for the problem to recur, but don't let it get to you too much as you will feel great once you've cured it once and for all.
The problem in the end was ****e and crap in the tank blocking the intake filters on the fuel pump. Replacing the fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator was my last-ditch attempt to cure it before I was gonna move on to replacing the ECU.
In the process of hunting down the problem, I got to know my engine pretty well. I replaced the EGR with a removal kit. I replaced a duff MAF sensor and I also found three relays, the two under the seat and the fuel pump one which had contact points that were in very poor condition so they got replaced as well.
Since then, apart from a dead starter a couple of weeks ago, she has been terrific. Though there are a few things still waiting to be done. My reverse light doesn't work nor does my diff lock light, but I am sure the diff is locking up ok. The rest is cosmetic.
The best advice I got was from Shifty, he was spot on with his help & advice which he gives so freely that he should be knighted IMHO.
All this took me 4 months to find the problem but perseverance got there in the end. It can be quite demoralising each time you think you have cured it for the problem to recur, but don't let it get to you too much as you will feel great once you've cured it once and for all.
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Shifty1962
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Give over or you'll make me blush :5bblush5:
Most advice I pass on was learnt over time and costs nothing to peeps that want to listen and learn. I'm still learning myself.
Most advice I pass on was learnt over time and costs nothing to peeps that want to listen and learn. I'm still learning myself.
i did mine myself its quite easy once youve done it, but can be daunting at first, i spoke with shifty and he guided me through it it takes less than an hour, where are you someone may help
Shifty1962
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Eveything must be scrupulously clean (thats very clean to me and you). The slightest piece of dirt or grit will cause the copper washers not to seat or damage the O rings. Crap may also get forced into your injectors which will be expensive.
Clanforbes
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Protei, I have done mine myself recently. It is an easy job to do. The most difficult bit is getting the injectors out of the head. I borrowed a lever from a local garage but I have heard some people on here say they used a set of pipe wrenches which they took apart to use as a lever (see link to picture at bottom of post.) The injectors don't need a huge amount of force to get them out, and there is a flat bit on the body to make it easier if you use a lever - DO NOT LEVER THEM OUT BY THE SOLENOID.
1 - remove plastic cover from top of engine
2 - remove rear plastic cover too (8mm socket and 8mm ring spanner)
3 - remove the pipe which is clipped onto the rocker cover (pliers)
4 - remove the rocker cover & gasket and keep them aside (8mm socket)
5 - optional release the pressure on the tappets by slackening them off (13mm spanner and a plain screwdriver)
6 - remove cam shaft (release gradually if 5 not done - 13mm socket if I remember correctly)
7 - clean the area as much as you can
8 - remove injectors one at a time and clean the hole they came out of (a small amount of fuel will probably leak into the cylinder)
9 - clean the hole the injector came out of, making sure there isn't even the slightest speck of dirt in there
10- remove the old o-ring and copper washer
11- carefully clean the end of the injector
12- smear the new o-ring with a little grease and gently fit to injector taking great care to avoid damaging it (I rolled up a little bit of thin card and used this to slide the o-ring into place)
13- carefully fit a new copper washer - check you put it on the way the old one came off there is a small ridge on them
14- refit first injector (I smeared mine with a little grease to help them slide back into the hole without damaging the o-rings)
15- continue with the rest
16- replace the cam shaft and tighten it to the correct torque setting
17- adjust the tappets by screwing the bolt in as far as it will go (don't over tighten it) then turn it back exactly one turn (360°) hold bolt with screwdriver and tighten the lock nut to correct torque
18- when all tappets set and checked smear a little grease into the groove on the rocker cover and fit the gasket to the cover
19- carefully reposition the cover checking the gasket hasn't slipped
20- stick it all back together again in the reverse order to which you stripped it apart tightening everything to the correct torque settings as you go
Check your oil level and run the engine. If all is good keep checking your oil level for a few days to make sure there are no leaks.
http://span-trade.co.uk/images/uploads/CAN1164ERA.jpg
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Protei,
Back to your original question... oil is generally a very low conductivity medium but that doesn't forbid it from conducting electricity. As oil ages it becomes more acidic which increases its conductivity (despite having additives to counteract the build up of acid). On the electrical side as you well know the ECU fires an electrical pulse every time it wants an injector port closed so diesel can be pressured up and injected. As the engine is revved up and more power required, pulses extend in duration and increase in frequency resulting in a higher equivalent voltage (same principle as in a modern electronic transformer e.g. a cell phone charger). Now, voltage is not an absolute value per se, but a difference of electrical potential between two points, and the higher the difference the more likely it is for electrons to "jump through" to equalise this potential. This is essentially what happens in the Td5 when oil creeps up and floods the loom and red connector. In an oil medium two or more conductors get eventually shorted and the ECU shuts down the corresponding injector causing the infamous Td5 in four cylinders problem. Also, temperature increases conductivity of the oil, this explains why in general the dreaded misfiring appears only after the engine warms up.
Back to your original question... oil is generally a very low conductivity medium but that doesn't forbid it from conducting electricity. As oil ages it becomes more acidic which increases its conductivity (despite having additives to counteract the build up of acid). On the electrical side as you well know the ECU fires an electrical pulse every time it wants an injector port closed so diesel can be pressured up and injected. As the engine is revved up and more power required, pulses extend in duration and increase in frequency resulting in a higher equivalent voltage (same principle as in a modern electronic transformer e.g. a cell phone charger). Now, voltage is not an absolute value per se, but a difference of electrical potential between two points, and the higher the difference the more likely it is for electrons to "jump through" to equalise this potential. This is essentially what happens in the Td5 when oil creeps up and floods the loom and red connector. In an oil medium two or more conductors get eventually shorted and the ECU shuts down the corresponding injector causing the infamous Td5 in four cylinders problem. Also, temperature increases conductivity of the oil, this explains why in general the dreaded misfiring appears only after the engine warms up.
hope it solve the problem...Hi Shifty,
I know this is slightly off topic, it might be relevant too.
Do you know about the air bleed valve doo-dah tucked in the return pipe of the fuel filter head of TD5 types?
I think mine is not clearing a little air well and she's tricky to start after a long sit.
I wonder if this bleed valve is blocked or jiggered.
Any suggestions?
CharlesY
I know this is slightly off topic, it might be relevant too.
Do you know about the air bleed valve doo-dah tucked in the return pipe of the fuel filter head of TD5 types?
I think mine is not clearing a little air well and she's tricky to start after a long sit.
I wonder if this bleed valve is blocked or jiggered.
Any suggestions?
CharlesY
Shifty1962
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Howdy CharlesY.
Yes I know its there but I've never had any problems with mine. Its not a bleed valve as such but more of a one way anti drain back valve and it sits in the high pressure return to tank connection of the fuel filter housing. If you take the fuel pipe off you can hook it out. They are available from LR stealers but I've not seen any indys selling them.
Yes I know its there but I've never had any problems with mine. Its not a bleed valve as such but more of a one way anti drain back valve and it sits in the high pressure return to tank connection of the fuel filter housing. If you take the fuel pipe off you can hook it out. They are available from LR stealers but I've not seen any indys selling them.
and Protei wrote too ...
Protei
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I think its not a valve but maybe just another kind of fuel filter. Because air may go in or out of it. I tried breath through it.
What I have managed to find so far is that this thing IS an air (and/or gas) bleed device, intended to clear all air/gas out of the filter head and dump it straight back to the tank where it can do no harm.
It seems to be some sort of filter with a valve in it. If the filter is DRY (of fuel I assume) it allows AIR/GAS to pass through, AND there is supposed to be a small hole right through it as well, to bleed a lot of air/gas or a little fuel all the time the pump is running.
Tomorrow I am going take off the right side back wheel, and then see if I can undo that pipe-union and hoick out the stupid filter thing.
Bloody LandRovers ... you can't help loving the damned things!
CharlesY
jamesmartin
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there are two unions out of the four one has restrictor the other a one way valve in the form of rubber reed valve,if valve dosent seal properly will lead to poor starting
Yes James, but we are looking ONLY at the one union, the one that is at the BACK of the filter, and furthest away from the chassis.
This pipe seems to serve no purpose other than letting air /gas escape from the filter head and directing that air/gas and a little fuel back into the fuel tank.
I am going to have a go at mine tomorrow!
CharlesY
