2002 discovery 2 td5 missing and smokey

shes done a genuine 88.000 and history ,
but im fearing the worse as ive read horror stories with heads cracking , saying that its never over heated and dosent lose coolant and returns freely with no air mixing with the water,
but the old girls running poorly , meaning starts great with loads of blue swirling smoke ( sure its diesaly as it stings the eyes and has that type of feel to it, yet if I leave it to warm up the smoke slightly changes colour to a bluey whitey look with it still missing ,,
firstly im told to check injectors but I need advise and what figures I should see for a good and a bad injector
secondly what pressure should I be seeing
as I assume if its a injector it wil show up??
if pressure is low ill try a new set of injector seals etc , (any info on the correct installation and torque settings,
if this dosent cure the problem , I gather im looking at another cylinder head ,,, any further advise help would be very greatfull guys, as until this happernd its been the best 4x4 ive owned , as the discovery 3 was the worse money pit ive owned tbh ,,

you need to get it plugged into a proper td5 diagnostic, as that can check the injector balance all should be around+/-5 of each other any that are way out prob want changing,google td5 injector seals as there are loads of write ups on how to change them,
check your turbo pipes for excessive oil as blue smoke is normally burning oil and check oil level in sump and report your findings here

top man john , tbh i use autocom as it dose show all injector graphs figures etc , i wasn't sure if i could unplug one injector at a time to test see if the smoke clears and keeps the same miss on that cylinder , ( just hope its not the head )
ps ill check for further codes ill report back Friday ,, as the discovery 3 in bits at present ,, ( the joy of 4x4s lol )

Right ive find problem .this is something i wouldnt expect to see on the milage of the motor
No bent conrod .no damaged bore or piston rings .the exhuast value as a perfect square hole in it wtf???bang on the egde of the valve itself ..has wnyone had this or what might have caused it

pic ? valves can be burned through if they arent sealed enough that gas passes when it shouldnt

jamesmartin said:

pic ? valves can be burned through if they arent sealed enough that gas passes when it shouldnt

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that's a good point there jamesmartin,, piston and bore are in great shape, ive also noticed turbo is fooked, theres no turbine fines on the turbo , I assume the lump broke off and went straight into turbo
no wonder it sounds like a areoplane ,when igitions turned off ,
mind im just glad heads ok and bottom end is as well, ill upload a pic now, little dark but ull see it , ill also get a pic of the valve when removed from engine as I better have the rest checked and re seated ,
ps on this 16p do I remove plastic dowls to fit steel ones
picture

Always refit a TD5 head with steel dowels. I'm surprised a 16p engine has nylon dowels as they were discontinued on late 10p and all 15p engines from about 2001-2. Maybe somebody has had the head off previously and refitted with nylon? Although why they would have done that I have no idea.

Shifty1962 said:

Always refit a TD5 head with steel dowels. I'm surprised a 16p engine has nylon dowels as they were discontinued on late 10p and all 15p engines from about 2001-2. Maybe somebody has had the head off previously and refitted with nylon? Although why they would have done that I have no idea.

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thanks for the advise ,i would say the head has never been off ( ie usely if a parts been off u can tell with how its been undone and refitted with nuts bolts pipes etc in place , all the parts removed were genuine and the correct year marked on them so i woundnt assume its been off before ,( i do know rockers been off , no1 injector changed and rocker shaft has been off before, ps which code is the injector code on these green top injectors

has anyone know were i could get a stock base file , as im possibly wondering if its been remaped as i removed a mirror file ,

There are various debates about this dowel thing, it's up to you if you want to risk or not...it would be interesting though to investigate which kind of dowels were on each cracked head in this or other forums...cos i saw lots of posts about cracked heads but not lots of explanations why did they crack

analise this then you decide

Technical bulletin said:

AFFECTED RANGE:
All Td5 derivatives within VIN ranges:
Discovery Series II
(02 Model Year) 2A 736340 to 3A 793895

Defender
(02 Model Year) 2A 622424 to 3A 647705


If a cylinder head is removed from a vehicle in the above VIN range, the plastic
dowels must be replaced with new specification steel dowels, which are now
available from Land Rover Parts.
CAUTION: Td5 derivatives prior to the above VIN ranges must not, under any
circumstances, be fitted with the new steel dowels. If steel dowels are fitted to
earlier engines, cylinder head cracking may result.

Click to expand...

the fact that some of us have fitted steel dowels instead of plastic and nothing happened yet doesnt mean that there isnt the risk to happen what the bulletin sais IMO

Now thats put spanner in the works lol .i dont know what to do now ..
Ps why would a small steel headgasket dowel cause a head to crack sounds crazy ?
But if it dose ..i think id sooner replace to plastic as a headgasket is cheeper then buying a clyinder head

Whilst I acknowledge what the bulletin says I find it hard to see how fitting steel dowel pins could cause early heads to crack. They are there purely for location purposes and as long as they are correctly fitted (ie. no oil or crud in the location holes) and if home made they are of the correct diameter and length there are no undue stresses imparted to either the head or the block. I have fitted steel pins to more than a few early 10p engines with no adverse affects even after several years of operation. In fact in most of the African countries I have worked it is standard practice to use home made steel dowels (normally turned down from large construction bolts) as the nylon dowel pins can allow the head to move around if the head bolts are not retightened after a few hundred miles. JMOH

if yours is from 2002 it may be within that VIN range, what are the last 8 characters of your VIN(put * instead the last two digit if you dont want to reveal the whole thing)

Ill go check .but personaly id sooner refit new plastic one no offence to anyone . . Ps i tuck head in this morning to be done and theres also cracks in other exhust valves ? (Unbeliveable ) he said its either 2 things .cat partly blocked causeing back heat build up over a perid of time or egr build as carbon is solid in the ports .im still in shock .( going on previoys recipts this vechical had this fault from 40k ) .so new valves bin fitted along with a good carbon decoke and cat chopped out and bined .just thought id let everyone know )

No offence taken. You can fit what you prefer as they both work. Just make sure the head is retightened after a few hundred miles. While you are at it I'd bin the EGR as well as the cat. Be silly to clean everything up then make it all dirty again by leaving the EGR in place. Also while you have the head off give the inlet manifold a good clean as it will be full of gungy crap as well.

Cheers shifty .egr has oready bin removed ie egr blank and pipe fitted on intake ..i just binned downpipe and added a none cat threw pipe ..ill upload a better of the valve too ..

hasnt land rover stopped selling the plastic dowels

I dont think you can buy them separately from LR but they do supply them with some head gasket kits.

heres a few pictures of the valve at fault , (better pictures in daylight)
see how its destroyed the glow plug end up ,, unsure how long some idiot has been trying to run it like this ,(that's the worrying thing)

Thats one of the worst I've seen in a long while.

if you are as paranoic as me when it comes about pure mechanics you can find the plastic dowells all over the place (LCL100020L) . e.g Head Dowel 2.5 Td5 (98-01) LCL100020L Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.