Classic Timming problem

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
Ratae said:
As far as removal & reinstallation of the dizzy is concerned the teeth of the drive gear on the camshaft that engage with & drive the dizzy shaft are cut at an angle so as you pull the dizzy out the dizzy shaft will rotate. This needs to be taken into account when refitting or the rotor arm will be out of position.
It's also very easy to get it a tooth or two out. It will pop & fart but not run. Guess how I know.

Both No1 valves need to be rocking & No1 piston needs to be at TDC on the compression stroke.
Best done by removing the rocker cover & No1 plug. Use a long rod in the plughole to determine when the piston is at TDC.
Mark the position of No1 lead on the dizzy body with tippex or a dot of white paint.
Align the rotor arm with this dot and then rotate the arm & shaft approx 30 deg anticlockwise as viewed from above.
Refit the dizzy & watch to see that as you do the rotor arm turns clockwise & aligns with the dot.

Have you at any point during this operation removed the rotor arm?
And if you have, when you have refitted the dizzy to the engine did you check the rotor arm movement?
By that I mean you need to turn the rotor arm with your fingers until it stops. When released it should spring smartly back to its original position. If it doesn't & just stays where you left it then you've disconnected the auto advance/retard mech weights in the bowl of the dizzy from their springs & again, it may pop & fart but it won't run.
Click to expand...
Hello m8 ive had another go this morning .gone through wot you wrote. And still no go. I did what brian on here said to .i got inlet valve to go down then brought it back up once it was closed i checkrd piston on no 1 cylinder and piston is there and marls r there on crank.rotor was way out so pulled dizzy and turned rotor to number one ive set one at 6 .oclock then just continued with firing order in clockwise direction. Went to try it and no popping at all just a little pop here and there so doing my head in now.because its a doings to get rocker cover off as you have to take the plenium off .also if i have to get both rocking once the inlet is up you have to turn engine over some considerable turns b4 it starts to go down
 
smudge67999 said:
i got inlet valve to go down then brought it back up once it was closed i checkrd piston on no 1 cylinder and piston is there
Click to expand...

Thats wrong,
Check the chain timing, inlet valve should close at +/-BDC then go to compression stroke.
Piston should be at the bottom at that point.
J
 
smudge67999 said:
Hello m8 ive had another go this morning .gone through wot you wrote. And still no go. I did what brian on here said to .i got inlet valve to go down then brought it back up once it was closed i checkrd piston on no 1 cylinder and piston is there and marls r there on crank.rotor was way out so pulled dizzy and turned rotor to number one ive set one at 6 .oclock then just continued with firing order in clockwise direction. Went to try it and no popping at all just a little pop here and there so doing my head in now.because its a doings to get rocker cover off as you have to take the plenium off .also if i have to get both rocking once the inlet is up you have to turn engine over some considerable turns b4 it starts to go down
Click to expand...
Good job I never gave you any advice eh @Brian P38dse :rolleyes: Are you sure you've got the correct cylinder number? Number 1 is front left hand side and firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.IMMIC;)edited because I didn't remember correctly.:oops:
 
Last edited:
tomcat59alan said:
Good job I never gave you any advice eh @Brian P38dse :rolleyes: Are you sure you've got the correct cylinder number? Number 1 is front left hand side and firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2.IMMIC;)
Click to expand...

IMG_20220101_145355.jpg
That is the correct firing order..number 1 piston tdc rotor pointing to plug lead 1 position on cap good to go never needed to bother with valves etc if not touched chains\cams etc swapped my dizzy for electronic in around 30mins fired up straight away...
 
This is pretty much a repeat of what I posted earlier, works for me.

No1 is the front cylinder on the left V as viewed sitting in the driver's seat facing forward. This eliminates any confusion & it doesn't matter which side of the car the driver's seat is on.

The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Leads are clockwise as viewed from above.

You shouldn't have to take the plenum off to remove the left hand rocker cover.
Mine's a 3.5EFi with flapper afm & whilst it's a while since I had the top end apart I have replaced the rocker cover gasket a couple of times on its own over the years I haven't needed to remove the plenum.
Can be fun getting the rubber rocker cover gasket to stay in place whilst you're manouevering the cover back into position unless you use a few spots of hylomar to stick it on.

With your dizzy in place make a small mark (tippex, white paint etc) on the body of the dizzy where the normal position of No1 plug should be in the dizzy cap.

Turn the engine clockwise as viewed from the front of the car looking towards the rear of the car until both No1 valves are closed and No1 piston is at TDC.
The TDC mark on the crank pulley should be there or thereabouts as regards its pointer.
If you go too far, carefully turn the engine anticlockwise until the piston is well down the bore then bring it back up again - this will allow for any play in the setup. There is no need to turn it through the whole cycle.

Check the alignment of the white mark on the dizzy relevant to the metal bit on the end of the rotor arm.

Remove the dizzy, set the rotor arm approx 30 deg anticlockwise from the white mark. Ensure the oil pump drive is correct then re-insert the dizzy until it is fully home.
As the gears mesh the rotor arm will rotate clockwise & the metal bit & your mark should align. If they don't, remove & try again until they do.

Assuming everything else is correctly fitted & working if it still won't play then I'm out of ideas & think you're going to need someone to have a look at it.
 
Last edited:
Occurs to me that we're assuming the new ignition amp isn't defective.
What was the reason for changing the original?
 
Right had another go today. Its now trying to fire but just wont catch. Just to rectify. Shippy i am right in thinking i get the 2 front valves at front of engine rocking so both valves are closed and alighn tdc on pulley and puston at top.. im still convinced timming is out. Also reason for taking dizzy out was to fit a new amplifer the new conversion type one.but it ran sweet b4 i took dizzy out .
 
Were im going wrong or confused about. Is am i right the x2 number 1 valves are at the front of the engine on number 1 cylinder located looking from front of engine right handside rocker .also i have rotated engine till the i let valve goes down then comes up fully then the nu.ber 1 piston is at top and the mark on bottom pulley aligns. If i continue to turn crank in clockwise direction to get the 2 valves rocking the timming marks would be way out.so am i on the right track .at the moment its trying to start but just wont catch .
 
Pull number 1 plug stick a screwdriver down turn engine clockwise until screwdriver rises then drops turn back slightly then set dizzy with rotor arm pointing to number 1 position on dizzy cap leave dizzy slightly loose try to start and if it's trying try turning dizzy both ways to see if it helps....thats the way I do it if Iv'e not touched timing chain/cam etc...
 
Shippers said:
Pull number 1 plug stick a screwdriver down turn engine clockwise until screwdriver rises then drops turn back slightly then set dizzy with rotor arm pointing to number 1 position on dizzy cap leave dizzy slightly loose try to start and if it's trying try turning dizzy both ways to see if it helps....thats the way I do it if Iv'e not touched timing chain/cam etc...
Click to expand...
Hi will try this tomorrow thanks for reply
 
smudge67999 said:
Were im going wrong or confused about. Is am i right the x2 number 1 valves are at the front of the engine on number 1 cylinder located looking from front of engine right handside rocker .also i have rotated engine till the i let valve goes down then comes up fully then the nu.ber 1 piston is at top and the mark on bottom pulley aligns. If i continue to turn crank in clockwise direction to get the 2 valves rocking the timming marks would be way out.so am i on the right track .at the moment its trying to start but just wont catch .
Click to expand...
Number 1cylinder is front Left hand side.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
EFI flapper system fault
Replies
8
Views
3K
Ratae
R
P
p38 not cranking properly
Replies
6
Views
2K
Datatek
Datatek
D8DEL
Td5 unbelievable starting,problem?...
Replies
2
Views
1K
D8DEL
D8DEL
K
Setting up the static timing & idle on a 3.9?
Replies
8
Views
10K
jamesmartin
jamesmartin
D
1.8 16V K-series unusal MISFIRE
2
Replies
30
Views
22K
Freelaner
Freelaner
Back
Top