TD5 Not starting after new injector seals/O rings. Help!

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Nigel-S

Nigel-S

soft and furry
Posts
6,070
Location
Englishman up a big steep hill in South Wales
Re: injectors. Fitted new 'O' rings and copper seals, refitted in the same position. Set up with injector springs bottoming out, and one turn back. Everything checked, rechecked and checked again. All done in clinically clean fashion.

The only thing I didnt do was disconnect any fuel lines as the vehicle had been stood for a couple of days.

The engine turns over just as it should, even the oil light goes out after a few seconds so I know there's oil pressure. But it just will not start :(

Any ideas greatfully received chaps :)
 
Update: Taken rocker cover off again and rechecked all my settings are correct, even put the old injector harness on and tried that. Everything back together and still wouldn't fire, battery gone flat now and no charger :( I must admit that chucking a 5lb lump hammer at the bloody thing made me feel a little better :), recomposed now and enjoying a strong black coffee. Any ideas anyone ? (excluding the hammer method). I really dont know where to go next?
 
i put a pressure regulator on a v plate td5 once and with pressing the accelerator 5 times to bring the engine light on to prime the fuel system.... still wouldn't fire. dragged it up the road with my disco and someone in the other in second gear about 25-30 mph and bump started it and it then fired into life. which leaves me thinking if the battery is not fully charged then they won't seem to fire.
 
Managed to borrow a battery charger so at least I can start with a fully charged battery in the morning. The only other thing I can think of (but prefer not to) is that I was supplied with the wrong 'O' rings and thus not making a proper seal. Hopefully there was only one size used on the TD5 injector.
 
go for the priming sequence again?

Ignition on but not running. Pedal floor to rest 5 times and it should work???
 
Nigel-S said:
Managed to borrow a battery charger so at least I can start with a fully charged battery in the morning. The only other thing I can think of (but prefer not to) is that I was supplied with the wrong 'O' rings and thus not making a proper seal. Hopefully there was only one size used on the TD5 injector.
Click to expand...

It is almost certain that there is AIR in the fuel gallery, and if there is ANY air in there, it will not start.

Do NOT attempt to start it until you have done the following.

1. if you have a clean new fuel filter, fit it. Fill it with diesel or kerosene before fitting it. Make sure the smaller central O-ring comes off when you take off the old filter.

2. Now PURGE the fuel system, and this may take some time.

Turn IGN ON, and throughout all this process leave it ON. Do not try to start up. As soon as the IGN is ON you will hear the fuel pump running if you listen. It may be a bit squealy - good, that is AIR circulating and being sent back to the fuel tank.

As soon as the fuel pump stops (and the IGN is still ON) stomp on the throttle pedal FIVE TIMES, and the fuel pump will start running again.

Repeat this process until you hear the fuel pump noise suddenly sound smoother and quieter, and then DO IT AT LEAST THREE TIMES MORE.

3. Turn IGN OFF.
Press throttle to the floor and hold it down - do not let it up! This sets injectors in purge mode. KEEP PEDAL TO FLOOR ALL THE TIME NOW.
Turn IGN ON, and run the starter in ONE LONG BURST UNTIL ENGINE IS RUNNING. The starter is safe to run for THIRTY SECONDS OR MORE.

Report in when it is running.

CharlesY
 
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Nigel-S said:
Thank you very much Charles, will do this in the morning with fully charged battery. I did actually fit a new fuel filter a couple of weeks ago, do I need fit a new one for the purpose of purging the system?
Click to expand...


No, if the filter is that new it will do, BUT !!!!!!

Are you SURE you got the SMALL CENTRE O-RING off last time?:confused:

If there are two o-rings there (I once had THREE in mine! :eek:) then the circulation of fuel can go a bit skew-whiff.

IMMEDIATELY after this purging process the exhaust should show SMOKE, probably grey-white sort of smoke. NO SMOKE = NO FUEL INJECTION.

It is possible to FLOOD these engines with fuel when an injector is lifted, as the fuel gallery empties itself down into a cylinder and fills a piston crown. I suck this out with a syringe and washer tubing.

Don't hesitate to tow start the TD5. It has no objection to this unless it's an automatic of course. If it's a manual tow it in 3rd or 4th gear high range at about 10 - 15 mph. It will fire up in a jiffy if the job's good.

CharlesY
 
Nigel-S said:
Thank you very much Charles, will do this in the morning with fully charged battery. I did actually fit a new fuel filter a couple of weeks ago, do I need fit a new one for the purpose of purging the system?
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed it,ll just be the purging cycle.

If you,d got the wrong o rings in then your oil leval would be up and the fuel pump wouldnt stop after a minute or so.

I feel your pain mate, nothing worse than a non start after doing a job.

I changed an injector trhis year, and started back up no probs. But after a diesel filter change a couple of years back, I nearly flattened the battery trying to restart.

Del.
 
One other thing.

I know it might be a pain, but you could whip the rocker cover off again, and see if anything is untoward whilst you let the fuel pump run. ( not try to start ).

This may save you flattening the battery again and heating up the starter if summats not right.

Del.
 
50 pence said:
I changed an injector this year, and started back up no probs. But after a diesel filter change a couple of years back, I nearly flattened the battery trying to restart.

Del.
Click to expand...

Hi Del,

It helps a MILLION to pre-fill the new fuel filter with diesel, kerosene, white spirit or even petrol before fitting it.

This prevents a whole filter-sized slug of air being sent straight to the one place you do not want it to go - the fuel gallery in the cylinder head.

Also, the TD5 fuel filter head is very prone to retaining the smaller of the two O-rings used on the filter. Make sure only ONE smaller o-ring is used. If two or more small o-rings are fitted, the filter will not seat properly.

The best way is to examine the old filter as it comes off - are BOTH o-rings in it? If not, find the missing one, and take it off.

Then fit both new o-rings to the new filter and GREASE them well as they are fitted to the grooves.

No problems after that, as long as you PURGE the fuel system properly before attempting a start.

CharlesY
 
One other thing to check is your oil level. If it has gone up then it would suggest that diesel is leaking past the injector seal and into the sump. This is caused where the seals are incorrect or when they have been rolled on and are not flush.

Could also be caused by a cracked fuel gallery, but unlikely in your case.

T
 
CharlesY said:
Hi Del,

It helps a MILLION to pre-fill the new fuel filter with diesel, kerosene, white spirit or even petrol before fitting it.

This prevents a whole filter-sized slug of air being sent straight to the one place you do not want it to go - the fuel gallery in the cylinder head.

Also, the TD5 fuel filter head is very prone to retaining the smaller of the two O-rings used on the filter. Make sure only ONE smaller o-ring is used. If two or more small o-rings are fitted, the filter will not seat properly.

The best way is to examine the old filter as it comes off - are BOTH o-rings in it? If not, find the missing one, and take it off.

Then fit both new o-rings to the new filter and GREASE them well as they are fitted to the grooves.

No problems after that, as long as you PURGE the fuel system properly before attempting a start.

CharlesY
Click to expand...

I will defo fill the new filter at service this month.

I experienced first hand about the O ring staying on the filter housing when I tried to screw the new one on and it was very tight before I could get it all up the way, ( you know when somethings not right though ), so I backed it off, and there is was.

Cheers.

Del.
 
50 pence said:
I will defo fill the new filter at service this month.

I experienced first hand about the O-ring staying on the filter housing when I tried to screw the new one on and it was very tight before I could get it all up the way, ( you know when something's not right though ), so I backed it off, and there it was.

Cheers.

Del.
Click to expand...

I find that filling the new filter right full (with more or less anything oily that burns) means that the TD5 will start up immediately without even a splutter. Last one I filled was with 2-stroke chainsaw mix. Petrol and kero are very good at filling the filter 100% and chasing out the air bubbles.

This can save a whole lot of grief.

CharlesY
 
50 pence said:
One other thing.

I know it might be a pain, but you could whip the rocker cover off again, and see if anything is untoward whilst you let the fuel pump run. ( not try to start ).

This may save you flattening the battery again and heating up the starter if summats not right.

Del.
Click to expand...


I suggest you do not do this.
There is nothing to see just when the fuel pump is running, and if you turn it over you will see some bits going round and round and other bits going up and down, and they will be looking just the same whether the engine fires up or not. You reckon you did the job right, and the chances are extremely good that a 'Fuel Flush' and 'Injector Purge' will see it running pronto.

If it does fire up with the lid off, there could be a lot of engine oil flying around.

I am very confident the two-stage fuel set-up process will start it,

1. Flush the air out of the system and the fuel gallery in the head particularly, noting that this procedure probably WILL NOT purge the injectors and get them working.

2. PURGE THE INJECTORS as I described.

Let us know in the morning what happens.

CharlesY
 
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50 pence said:
One other thing.

I know it might be a pain, but you could whip the rocker cover off again, and see if anything is untoward whilst you let the fuel pump run. ( not try to start ).

This may save you flattening the battery again and heating up the starter if summats not right.

Del.
Click to expand...

You obviuosly wouldnt be able to see anything other than flying oil if the engine was cranking with the cover off.

I only meant to do this, as if the O rings were incorrect/not seated and letting fuel past, you may well be able to see/hear this escaping whilst the pump is trying to pressure up.

Hope its going to work for you today mate.

Del.
 
UPDATE: Disco nil, me nil :censored:

Battery charged, tried all the procedures......................

nahda, nil, nothing. Battery now flat :(

I've checked all the settings on the injectors, checked that the correct 'O' rings/seals were fitted ( ERR6417 x5 and ERR7004 x5). I really dont know where to go next? a tow is out of the question, everbody I know owns silly little cars that wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

My next thought is to replace the fuel filter (even though the existing one is fairly recent), everywhere closed today. I knew it was a bad idea buying a L/Rover :(
 
i split a fuel pipe a few weeks ago and after the repair had to do the purging as charlsey said 3 times before it fired, cranking with the gas pedal flat to the floor for 30 secs, you need a good battery, but if done right it will start if its air stopping it
 
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