RR Classic Springs on Defender?

Hi

First post on here. Haven't had to ask anything before as managed to find all answers I needed.

I can't find anything on this though...

I have a '96 90 with a 2" lift and (Britpart) heavy duty springs. However, I'm finding that the rear isn't articulating properly and I'm losing traction on rear wheels. It's as if I need a dead weight in the back to push the springs down.

Anyway, the lads at the landy club reckon I should change the rear springs for red and whites off a RR classic.

Does that sound like a good idea?

Bit of advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

no it doesnt sound like a good idea!!

rr springs for rr
defender springs for defender
its not the springs stopping articulation its the shocks

mathers said:

Hi

First post on here. Haven't had to ask anything before as managed to find all answers I needed.

I can't find anything on this though...

I have a '96 90 with a 2" lift and (Britpart) heavy duty springs. However, I'm finding that the rear isn't articulating properly and I'm losing traction on rear wheels. It's as if I need a dead weight in the back to push the springs down.

Anyway, the lads at the landy club reckon I should change the rear springs for red and whites off a RR classic.

Does that sound like a good idea?

Bit of advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I've got Disco springs on the front of my 110 and standard 110 springs on the back and it articulates loverly, must admit that I'm not as serious at it as some but the old hard springs I took off didn't allow the wheels to go up as much so dont know who's right.

landowner said:

I've got Disco springs on the front of my 110 and standard 110 springs on the back and it articulates loverly, must admit that I'm not as serious at it as some but the old hard springs I took off didn't allow the wheels to go up as much so dont know who's right.

Click to expand...

he said he couldnt get his wheels down not up
springs dont stop your wheels goin down..
i have plus 5" shocks so i can keep me wheels on the ground and the spring dislocates completely and then relocates

wiltshire landyman said:

he said he couldnt get his wheels down not up
springs dont stop your wheels goin down..
i have plus 5" shocks so i can keep me wheels on the ground and the spring dislocates completely and then relocates

Click to expand...

Yes but as one goes up the other one goes down so if the hard spring is stopping the one side goin up it will lift the other off the ground.
If the springs were very very very hard the the axles would only articulate a little.
Or am I on the wrong bumpy track so to speak

na dont agree with that ..if yr on eneven ground the ground will push the wheel up..and the other side would drop and stay on the floor..thats how mine works anyways.
they would have to be made of iron girders not to be pushed up.and if they were that hard it would be undriveable on the road.imho

u should be able to get yr wheels up in the arches

wiltshire landyman said:

na dont agree with that ..if yr on eneven ground the ground will push the wheel up..and the other side would drop and stay on the floor..thats how mine works anyways.
they would have to be made of iron girders not to be pushed up.and if they were that hard it would be undriveable on the road.imho

Click to expand...

Mine was too hard on the road, it cornered like a race car and didn't lean at all. I could feel all the bumps which meant that the body was moving instead of the spring evening out the road.
A softer spring will allow one wheel to compress the spring further so allowing that side of the body to be lower so then the other side will also be lower keeping the wheel on the ground.
Or maybe it's changed when we went metric, could be

have to agree to disagree...
i do a lot of winch challenge and punch challenges..i have hd springs and plus 5" shocks and have never had a problem with articulation,its all about keeping as many wheels on the floor gaining you traction..if you have a soft spring yes the wheel will go up in the arch but the other side will only drop as far as the shock will allow,and normally a plus 2" shock aint enough and the wheel is still in the air

I'm with Wilty on this.

You dont say if your 2" lift is a body only lift (spacers between chassis and body) or a full suspension lift (longer springs or spring spacers and shocks). A body lift would not affect the shock length or travel but a full suspension lift puts the chassis 2" higher from the axle which means the shocks have 2" less until they reach full extension.

Your springs will not stop the axle dropping as they are not connected at both ends. They are normally fixed to the axle but will dislocate from the upper chassis guides which is why you fit longer dislocation cones - not to aid extreme axle travel but merely to relocate the springs on compression after extreme axle travel.

Your shocks on the other hand are fixed at both ends so once they are fully extended then no amount of spring rate will let them extend any further. They effectively become solid struts. A proper full suspension lift should therefore include longer travel shocks.

If you have anti roll bars fitted they may have some effect but I would not have thought enough to keep a wheel hanging.

YES! Listen to the trialler boys!

For Trialling Red/White combo works very well you will compromise on road handlling I have Red/White fitted all around and articulation is far better considering that I have standard shocks etc

Trialling Red/Whites,
Procomp +2 inch shocks
Good combo!

Red/Whites are +3 inch than standard Defenders + or - half an inch. They are 175Lbs an inch opposed to 215 Lbs/inch give or take a few Lbs as each corner is different. you will get better articulation by fitting these but STRESS you will gain loads of body roll on the road.
Forget your +5 inch shocks and "lift kit" its bollix most lift kits use hard springs that lift your landy but feck up its capabilities temendously. I have just driven a TDI Disco in a RTV comp on Red/Whites bloody lovley artitulation Ta very much and it costs bugger all compared to dislocating 5 inch bling bollix you get sold in the mags. P.S I got all clears and one 5 at the end of the day in a motor I've never driven before. Not bad considering I'm used to my 90 on (red/whites by the way)

Thanks for all the advice everyone - much appreciated.

In response to your post Shifty, the lift is a full suspension lift. So, it would sound as if the shocks are what I need to replace. I don't have anti roll bars so there's no issue there.

I think I'll change the shocks and see how it goes. Just seen Procomp 4" shocks on Paddocks so it sounds like that'd be the best move. Wish you'd all said spring change though as a much cheaper option!

i wonder what yer insurance company will do with yer claim when their assessor tells them you got parts intended for another model fitted

ya dont like in nofulck do ya?

springs are only part of the puzzle,without the shocks to allow travel you will gain no more articulation that your shocks will allow how many more times do we have to say it

jai_landrover said:

YES! Listen to the trialler boys!

For Trialling Red/White combo works very well you will compromise on road handlling I have Red/White fitted all around and articulation is far better considering that I have standard shocks etc

Trialling Red/Whites,
Procomp +2 inch shocks
Good combo!

Red/Whites are +3 inch than standard Defenders + or - half an inch. They are 175Lbs an inch opposed to 215 Lbs/inch give or take a few Lbs as each corner is different. you will get better articulation by fitting these but STRESS you will gain loads of body roll on the road.
Forget your +5 inch shocks and "lift kit" its bollix most lift kits use hard springs that lift your landy but feck up its capabilities temendously. I have just driven a TDI Disco in a RTV comp on Red/Whites bloody lovley artitulation Ta very much and it costs bugger all compared to dislocating 5 inch bling bollix you get sold in the mags. P.S I got all clears and one 5 at the end of the day in a motor I've never driven before. Not bad considering I'm used to my 90 on (red/whites by the way)

Click to expand...

you could have the biggest springs in the world if your runnin standard shocks you will only have the travel a standard shock allows.a plus 5" shock gives you 5" more drop cant see how you dont understand this:doh:

jai_landrover said:

YES! Listen to the trialler boys!

considering that I have standard shocks etc


Procomp +2 inch shocks
Good combo!

Click to expand...

mmmmm bit of a contradiction there

wiltshire landyman said:

no it doesnt sound like a good idea!!

rr springs for rr

defender springs for defender

its not the springs stopping articulation its the shocks

Click to expand...

I Disagree! Sorry Wiltshire but Springs play a big part and Defender springs IMO for trialling when Empty are far too stiff RED/WHITES are far better.

Do oyou have bump stops fitted all around? These are really important if these are not fitted you will lose articulation. Yes ultimatly the shocks bottom out but if you are not putting enough weight on the springs to make then decompress then you will wave the opposite wheel before the shock bottoms. I had this on my 90 when I had standard springs and an empty back.

Have you ever noticed how supply and easy older Pre85 RR make slow big obstacales look? its because the springs are better suited than Defender springs for this kind of offroad driving.

i have extended bump stops fitted..dislocation cones front and rear...heavy duty springs and plus 5" shocks..i had to have hd springs as the front and rear winches made the other springs i had compress to much and loseing some of the lift..

different set ups will always perform diferent for different landys in different situations.one persons setup aint always what someone else wants

Well if you have Plus 5 inch shocks you really need to change the mounts also because now you have bugger all compression as the shocks will to out far too soon.

Red/Whites and procomp +2's have been regarded as the norm for most club trials events. Yes you could get loads of other stuff but the trials boys have been using this setup for donkeys it really is a respected approach within the trialling community.

Mine use standard shocks Why?
Because they are cheap,
Because I do believe articulation is overrated! Yes i said it.
Because I'd rarther spend the money on a locker and my suspension tops out and bottoms out exactly where I want it to after Months of sorting and trying Different LR Shocks to gain the best compromise with my current tyres.