My P38 Won't Start

So, I went to fit an after-market head unit yesterday. After trying (and failing) to install said head unit with the factory amp, I gave up and put the factory Clarion head unit back in. I'll revisit that another day, as I have a bigger problem now.

Went to pop to the shops 5 mins later, turned the key and... nothing. Not even the clicking associated with a low-voltage battery (a problem I'm all too familiar with, if you remember my first ever thread).

All the electrics work, there are no error messages, the battery's reading 12.60 volts, but I get nothing from the starter motor on that final turn of the key. I even tried jumping it off the wife's car, despite the good battery read, but still got nothing. I've tried entering the EKA code (even though the remote still works) and I tried using the spare key (2) but I cannot get it to engage the starter motor.

Now the head unit thing may be a red herring, but I thought I'd mention it as it's one hell of a coincidence that I had the factory Clarion out and back in and since haven't been able to start the car.

Any ideas? Am I missing some immobiliser trick I didn't know about?

Sounds Like you need to re-sync the BeCM with the engine ECU/ECM....

This can be done with a Sync-Mate if anyone near you has one....

Have you thought that your ignition switch may have packed up? You could try shorting it. If you can't just ask a teenager from your local council estate.

Saint.V8 said:

Sounds Like you need to re-sync the BeCM with the engine ECU/ECM....

This can be done with a Sync-Mate if anyone near you has one....

Click to expand...

Thanks. I've seen mention of the Sync-Mate on a couple of other threads, but when I looked at the eBay listings it says "Your engine turns over, but won't start up!" - but mine doesn't turn over, the starter motor doesn't even kick in.

dogsbody said:

Have you thought that your ignition switch may have packed up? You could try shorting it. If you can't just ask a teenager from your local council estate.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure you know.. I noticed earlier that the A/C unit went off completely when in position 3, but couldn't remember if it normally did that as I don't recall what's normally on/off while the starter's cranking, as it's such a brief thing. I certainly won't be letting any local scallies near my pride and joy, but thanks for the suggestion!

Any tips on "hot-wiring" this myself to see if it is in fact immobilised? In fact, any troubleshooting steps at all would be most welcome!

Check starter relay in fuse box. Check connection to solenoid on starter.

wammers said:

Check starter relay in fuse box. Check connection to solenoid on starter.

Click to expand...

Thanks Wammers. Just been looking at the Electrical Troubleshooting manual in RAVE and there are a few tests which can be performed with a multimeter. Trouble is I don't really understand the diagrams and what it's telling me to connect the multimeter to. Would you be kind enough to tell me in layman's terms how to test these things?

I had a simler problem a few months back
had to call rac it was ****ing down with rain so he just loaded on his truck
Next day called rac home start first thing he did was check fuses. Guess what..blown maxi fuse
cant remember witch one it was but its marked on the fuse box lid as starter/eas

gfromleeds said:

I had a simler problem a few months back
had to call rac it was ****ing down with rain so he just loaded on his truck
Next day called rac home start first thing he did was check fuses. Guess what..blown maxi fuse
cant remember witch one it was but its marked on the fuse box lid as starter/eas

Click to expand...

Hmm.. I assumed it wasn't a fuse as a message normally pops up when a fuse fails, but I guess it might not for the maxi fuses. I'll check it in the morning, thanks.

Failing that try turning the ing key on then jump the starter by useing a wire between the 2 possative connectors on the starter
Best to have a mate in the drivers seat to shut it down if it starts
Anyone know if the wires for the gear possition sensor run anywere near the radio? Might have nocked a plug loose?

Valiante said:

Thanks Wammers. Just been looking at the Electrical Troubleshooting manual in RAVE and there are a few tests which can be performed with a multimeter. Trouble is I don't really understand the diagrams and what it's telling me to connect the multimeter to. Would you be kind enough to tell me in layman's terms how to test these things?

Click to expand...

Ok first check that fuse MF2 is ok. If so remove relay 16, with power across pins 1 and 2 it should click. If no click relay duff. If click, check for continuity (circuit) across pins 3 and 5. If no continuity relay duff. If continuity relay ok. To check if starter works make up a wire of suitable length to reach from starter to battery positive. Fit a Lucar (spade) connector to one end. Remove Lucar from sloenoid and fit test wire. Touch other end of wire to battery positive, engine should turn over. Starter ok. Connect meter to wire removed from solenoid with ignition in position 3 there should be 12 volts shown. If not and fuse relay/check out ok. Problem is BECM lock out. You will have to get someone to clear this for you.

wammers said:

Ok first check that fuse MF2 is ok. If so remove relay 16, with power across pins 1 and 2 it should click. If no click relay duff. If click, check for continuity (circuit) across pins 3 and 5. If no continuity relay duff. If continuity relay ok. To check if starter works make up a wire of suitable length to reach from starter to battery positive. Fit a Lucar (spade) connector to one end. Remove Lucar from sloenoid and fit test wire. Touch other end of wire to battery positive, engine should turn over. Starter ok. Connect meter to wire removed from solenoid with ignition in position 3 there should be 12 volts shown. If not and fuse relay/check out ok. Problem is BECM lock out. You will have to get someone to clear this for you.

Click to expand...

This is excellent stuff. While you were replying I've been outside playing around (couldn't wait until morning) and I tested MF2 and that's ok. I then pulled Relay 16 and swapped it with the EAS relay which appears to have identical numbers on it, but it still doesn't turn over. It "clicks" when the key is turned to position 3 so I "think" the relay is ok, but will do the further continuity tests you've suggested to make sure. And I think I'll do the remaining starter/solenoid/becm tests in daylight tomorrow.

Thank you so much for the info - should narrow things down nicely.

Valiante said:

This is excellent stuff. While you were replying I've been outside playing around (couldn't wait until morning) and I tested MF2 and that's ok. I then pulled Relay 16 and swapped it with the EAS relay which appears to have identical numbers on it, but it still doesn't turn over. It "clicks" when the key is turned to position 3 so I "think" the relay is ok, but will do the further continuity tests you've suggested to make sure. And I think I'll do the remaining starter/solenoid/becm tests in daylight tomorrow.

Thank you so much for the info - should narrow things down nicely.

Click to expand...

If it clicks in position 3 it is not BECM lockout. As if it was that there would be no click. Either contacts have burned out across pins 3 and 5 or wire to solenoid has a problem or bad connection to solenoid or starter duff.

wammers said:

If it clicks in position 3 it is not BECM lockout. As if it was that there would be no click. Either contacts have burned out across pins 3 and 5 or wire to solenoid has a problem or bad connection to solenoid or starter duff.

Click to expand...

Ok, I'll hopefully confirm tomorrow. One quick question (and sorry if it seems dumb) but should I have the ignition on (position 2) or off when doing the starter motor tests? Or doesn't it matter?

It wouldnt matter if its on or not itll still turn over just wont start if it turned off

My not so technical input would be something u have maybe tried or missed. But move the gear stick through the box, make sure it selects park properly guessing it's auto....

Try starting in neutral?

Good luck.

jamesblake said:

My not so technical input would be something u have maybe tried or missed. But move the gear stick through the box, make sure it selects park properly guessing it's auto....

Try starting in neutral?

Click to expand...

Yep, first thing I tried when it wouldn't start yesterday, but thanks all the same.

Ok so I tested the relay properly, per your instructions Wammers, and it tests ok. Thanks to work commitments and the impending winter months, I ran out of daylight again. I don't know where the starter motor is at the best of times, so I'm not going to try to spot the connector in the dark. I'll have another crack when I have some more sunlight to play with. Thanks again for your help & advice so far.

Well, the car's starting again now.. but theoretically nothing's changed! zzr1200 kindly offered to stop by on his way home from work and, doing all the dirty work for me, went through all the diagnostic steps.

The relay was working correctly, but no power seemed to be getting to the starter. He disconnected the cable from the solenoid and connected it directly to the battery, which started the car. We then tested the cable from the solenoid and it was showing 12v on ignition position 3. So a little head scratching later, having reconnected the original cable back to the solenoid, the car started from the key!

Only two theories remain.. either the cable/connector was crudded up enough to stop working and by removing it and refitting it, cleaned the connection enough to fix it. Or the starter/solenoid is on its way out. Only time will tell I suppose.

But a big huge thank you goes out to zzr1200. Thoroughly nice chap, doesn't even know me from Adam, offers to swing by on his way home from work, spends over an hour of his own time crawling around under my car and even fixed the problem, albeit inadvertently! It's blokes like that who restore your faith in humanity. Cheers mate.

Valiante said:

Only two theories remain.. either the cable/connector was crudded up enough to stop working and by removing it and refitting it, cleaned the connection enough to fix it. Or the starter/solenoid is on its way out. Only time will tell I suppose.

Click to expand...

Ok, so it went again, exactly the same symptoms as last time, except this time I managed to get it going again with few thwacks from a hammer. All was well for a couple of days, then it failed to start again last night. I got it going (again) with another couple of whacks from a heavy wheel-brace, but I fear this will only work for so long (and will get pretty tiresome, particularly in the snow).

I've read several posts relating to this and I can be fairly sure something needs replacing.. but my question is, would it be the starter, the solenoid, or both? Any tips?

Cheers,

V.

if you have to hit the starter motor to get it to start its a new starter!
simple test remove the push on wire from the starter solenoid connect a multimeter on volts and get someone to hold the key in the start/crank position see if you get 12volts if you do sounds like a starter motor