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m and s lights flashing wont turn over!

Discussion in 'Land Rover Discovery' started by bigdai, Nov 18, 2012.

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  1. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    hi folks,

    Problem started yesterday. Turned ignition key but nothing happened. Locked then unlocked car and hey presto started up but m & s lights flashing so crawled home. Turned it off and started again then it was fine but had same m & s lights later in day - again intermittently.
    Searched forums and read about loom into ecu getting oily. Had a look this morning but it appeared fine, although i gave it some wd40 anyway. Checked all other wiring that i could see for rubbing but no sign. Put all back together tried to start but starter motor isnt turning over and m and s lights still flashing. Im pretty sure the battery is fine as headlights dont dim. Could this be the starter motor itself? There werent any other references to this on other m and s light threads. Gnition position 2 warning light also seems to stay on for a few seconds longer than normal.

    I have had an issue with oil leaks recently and have changed rocker cover gasket, sump gasket and various other seals.
     
  2. iansoady

    iansoady Active Member

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    Very often a dying battery - mine was like this till I fitted a new one. Possibly poor connections either on the battery or earth? The M&S lights flash as a low voltage at the ECU causes it problems.
     
  3. Vanmancan

    Vanmancan Active Member

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    Sounds like a battery prob to me to , if your getting m & s light coming straight on at starting up before you even move off , double check the terminals then try a jump start, to test it out b4 buying a new battery , the ecu for the auto box is very touchy about having the right voltage on start up .
     
  4. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    The fact that the headlights dont dim doesnt mean the battery is fine...as said above, first of all check the connections at the battery then ask somebody to help you, put a voltmeter on the battery and watch it while trying to start the engine ....if the voltage drops under 9V your battery is weak and that's the reason of the troube
     
  5. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Thanks i'll try those asap. I've been out today but unlocked it just now and it was then fine. Only other thing i've done, but was immediately before the problem started, is change my car keys and pop the old fob circuit into the new casing - cant see how this could cause it though.
     
  6. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Managed to get a multimeter today but due to ****ing rain didnt get much chance to test it properly. However, battery registering about 12.6v. when running its about 14v. Started it up about 10 times and lowest voltage ranged from between 9.4 and 9.7. A few times it wouldnt turn over and voltage stayed at about 12 so i guess nothing reaching the starter motor? Strange thing is that when i lock and then unlock it via the key fob it will turn over again. Sometimes starts fine and runs perfectly, other times the m and s lights are flashing and i have to crawl. Again locking and unlocking can solve this. Any more advice appreciated.
     
  7. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Well just tried it again this morning - much easier with light and no rain.
    Getting 11.9v off battery and 8.7v on starting. 14v when running. This was variable had a best reading of 12.2v dropping to 9.02v when starting.
    So probably need a new battery? Be grateful if someone could confirm this thought as im less than a novice as you can tell. Could this also cause the immobiliser not to disarm on occassion hence not starting?
     
  8. sabredylan

    sabredylan New Member

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    Could be a few things:-

    - Battery as mentioned. Although starting ten times, voltage will be down.

    - Solenoid on starter, easy and cheap fix, see here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-Sta...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35c01acfc0

    - xyz switch on its way out. Start inhibit in drive and reverse. Check the lights on selector correspond to selected gear and lcd on speedo.


    The m and s lights will come on with voltage drop. With you saying it will start intermittently I'd be replacing starter solenoid and its the cheapest option.;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  9. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Thanks, as you say, cheaper than a battery. I wont get to do it until next weekend but will let you know how i get on.
     
  10. sabredylan

    sabredylan New Member

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    On the link I gave you, there is a guide to fitting once the starter is off. There are two bolts and a nut holding the starter to the gearbox. The nut is hard to get at, but use a 3/8 ratchet, extension and knuckle down theback of the starter and you'll get it. You'll also have to remove the support bracket for the auto cooler pipes. Drop the starter out under the vehicle.

    This is a common fault, as the contacts on the starter wear out.
     
  11. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Ive got a 1/2 & 1/4 set but not 3/8. Can i get to it with either of them or shall i buy a 3/8 set?
     
  12. sabredylan

    sabredylan New Member

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    The 1/4 will be fine mate, provided you've got the right socket size. I can't remember the size of the nut, off the top of my head it could be 15mm. Space is tight and you'll struggle with a 1/2,
     
  13. jamesmartin

    jamesmartin Well-Known Member

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    nut is 15mm bolts are 13mm you will be lucky to undo nut with 1/4 a good 3/8 set with a long handle rachette just does it on some but you are tight for space unless its a defender
     
  14. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Finally changed the contacts this moring - bloody weather. The hard to get to nut was missing so it wasnt so bad but still a pain in the arse. Is it vital to get a new nut?

    Anyway, still got the damn lights. Is my next stop an xyz switch? And if so is it a more difficult job than the starter? Am i better off taking it to a garage? Lots of questions but im a newbie to a disco. Thanks for the help so far.
     
  15. fenair

    fenair New Member

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    Can you drive the car? if so what is the lcd display saying? D or something else..

    Also when driving forward can you feel the box changing gear, or is it lethargic like clutch slip at getting away?

    I had a similar problem on my v8, it was caused by condensate water dripping from the air con onto the controller on the gear box under the passenger foot well, i believe td5's suffer from oil tracing down the cable into the connecter plug, giving signaling issues.

    I removed my control unit cleaned the plug connector with a flash of circuit board cleaner and the inside of the cable end plug, re- fitted and then using good quality duct tape insulated the connector, that was three years ago, never had the problem since.

    Pat
     
  16. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    I can drive it. When m and s lights flash d is displayed but it flashes on lcd as does red led by gear selector. Again when flashing it is very lethargic, like it is slipping. Ill have a look at the switch next weekend. See if there are any aircon leaks above. Do i need to remove the exhaust to get to the switch? Weird, its been fine all week.
     
  17. darrenm

    darrenm Active Member

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    Before you do the xyz switch you need to get the fault code read as the switchs aren't cheap also check the. Wiring as it can get damaged changing xyz switch isn't a difficult job prob about 30 mins tops
     
  18. sierrafery

    sierrafery Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^ +1 ..there are 22 reasons for those lights to flash others than the XYZ switch so you better take that advise to not risk to spend serious money in vain
     
  19. thebiglad

    thebiglad Well-Known Member

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    I would be starting with putting the battery on charge overnight. Give it a good 12 hrs, then start the engine, DO NOT IMMEDIATELY GO FOR GEARS, leave it a few seconds while you belt up and prepare yourself for the road, then select gears. Do the M&S lights still come on? If they don't this proves your battery is fubar'd.
     
  20. bigdai

    bigdai New Member

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    Its gone in for a diagnostics test tomorrow. Fingers crossed something cheap, will let ya'll know.
     
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