Last Land-Rover for mere mortals?

"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> TonyB Hi,
>
> Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
>
> Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
> 1993 and 1994 model year)
>
> Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
>
Pantelis, Kalispera,

It wasn't the one on the rad, rather it was the one on the thermostat
housing.
I finally got it out without realising that I could take the housing off
fairly easily. Hence some small bits and a large bit of the old one fell
into the cooling pathways. I was most concerned about bits blocking the
cooling tubing and thus covered the expansion tank top with a rag (
anti-freeze is very very poisonous ) and blew hard into the expansion tank.
The large part came out with the coolant and I assume the smaller bits did
too.

Funny enough, by chance I noticed a similar looking plug in the garage which
was a perfect fit - it was a domestic radiator plug. I won't be using it but
it might do as an emergency one.

Best wishes
TonyB

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
> rather
>> take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers over
>> rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every
> other
>> week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
>> have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened.... the
>> more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
>> jumped when I did.
>> Badger.
>>
>> Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has the
> authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
> same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually
> do
> thank goodness.
>
> be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
> TonyB
> Hi Group, I agree also, some time back it was decided that our stores
> should be made more efficient as it was holding too much stock. The
> computer wizz kids were brought in and checked the movement of the stock.
> Some months later with winter fast approaching it was decided to prepare
> the de-icers ready for winter. There were no spares at all! The answer was
> if it hasn't moved in six months we got rid of it. A fresh lot of
> expensive spares had to be ordered from America.
Robbie
>

Tony Hi,

I forgot that the 300Tdi generation of engines has this plug on the
thermostat.
I guess LR engineers decided just to move the problem to another area
instead of solving it altogether.

Nice idea about blowing into the expansion tank and pulling the debris out.

As for the replacement metallic plug it does make sense to be a standard
plumbing size. Hasn't another fellow listers quoted the size recently? (have
to check for it so as to save the trouble of making out at the lathe)

Take care
Pantelis


"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > TonyB Hi,
> >
> > Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> > It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
> >
> > Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco
(200Tdi,
> > 1993 and 1994 model year)
> >
> > Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
> >
> Pantelis, Kalispera,
>
> It wasn't the one on the rad, rather it was the one on the thermostat
> housing.
> I finally got it out without realising that I could take the housing off
> fairly easily. Hence some small bits and a large bit of the old one fell
> into the cooling pathways. I was most concerned about bits blocking the
> cooling tubing and thus covered the expansion tank top with a rag (
> anti-freeze is very very poisonous ) and blew hard into the expansion
tank.
> The large part came out with the coolant and I assume the smaller bits did
> too.
>
> Funny enough, by chance I noticed a similar looking plug in the garage
which
> was a perfect fit - it was a domestic radiator plug. I won't be using it
but
> it might do as an emergency one.
>
> Best wishes
> TonyB
>
>

On or around Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:45:41 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>TonyB Hi,
>
>Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
>It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
>
>Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
>1993 and 1994 model year)
>
>Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.

can you actually get the brass ones still? lot of the earlier engines and
rads had the same plug in brass. if they're not to be had, then someone
ought to be in charge of savaging 'em all from the scrap motors. They had
'em on the earlier V8s, and also on the earlier 90/110 rads, I think. Same
plug but in brass and not subject to shearing off. 'course, if the threaded
bit of the plastic one was solid plastic and not hollow, it'd a) be less
likely to shear and b) still retain the water in an emergency without its
head.

typical crap costcutting exercise, again. what thread are they? 3/4" BSP?

Who's got a cnc machine with a bit of spare capacity, it should be possible
and worthwhile to organise a short production run of brass plugs, to the
same design as the plastic ones so they take the same O-ring...


>
>Take care
>Pantelis
>
>"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> > Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
>> rather
>> > take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers
>over
>> > rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every
>> other
>> > week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
>> > have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened....
>the
>> > more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
>> > jumped when I did.
>> > Badger.
>> >
>> > Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has
>the
>> authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
>> same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually
>do
>> thank goodness.
>>
>> Back to the OP.
>>
>> Having just got the 300Tdi ES Disco I am amazed at how far they have come
>in
>> the four years between that model and my '92 Tdi Disco. The ES seems to
>have
>> lower suspension, side steps, air con and a slippery leather seat. The
>> steering wheel is smaller and the ride height lower. The tyres are wider
>and
>> lower profile. I would suggest that perhaps the last "proper" Landie (
>> neatly avoiding the hyphen argument) was the Disco I, which is eminently
>> "spannerable", yet still let down by modern gizmos like central door
>locking
>> and plastic tubery on the tank sender which failed. On the 300 the plastic
>> insert in the cooling system has just let me down ( See other post ) which
>> necessitated a recovery home and a an aborted parents visit. 0/10 for that
>> component. It disabled the vehicle and in the desert or some such may have
>> been a seriouse problem, unless some Araldite had been carried.
>> Some may argue that the Defender is the last peoper Landie ( or should
>that
>> be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
>> TonyB
>>
>>
>
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

On or around Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:14:50 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Tony Hi,
>
>I forgot that the 300Tdi generation of engines has this plug on the
>thermostat.
>I guess LR engineers decided just to move the problem to another area
>instead of solving it altogether.

and on the rad... although it seems to be the stat housing one that's most
prone to fail.



--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

In message <[email protected]>
"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote:

> TonyB Hi,
>
> Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
>
> Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
> 1993 and 1994 model year)
>
> Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
>
> Take care
> Pantelis


I've been dying to get this one in.....

<shameless plug - ooooh!>

ERR4686B Thermostat Housing Bleed Plug/Radiator Filler -
Brass - 300Tdi £1.76 inc VAT

</shameless plug>

Richard

>
> "TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
> > rather
> > > take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers
> over
> > > rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every
> > other
> > > week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
> > > have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened....
> the
> > > more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
> > > jumped when I did.
> > > Badger.
> > >
> > > Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has
> the
> > authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
> > same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually
> do
> > thank goodness.
> >
> > Back to the OP.
> >
> > Having just got the 300Tdi ES Disco I am amazed at how far they have come
> in
> > the four years between that model and my '92 Tdi Disco. The ES seems to
> have
> > lower suspension, side steps, air con and a slippery leather seat. The
> > steering wheel is smaller and the ride height lower. The tyres are wider
> and
> > lower profile. I would suggest that perhaps the last "proper" Landie (
> > neatly avoiding the hyphen argument) was the Disco I, which is eminently
> > "spannerable", yet still let down by modern gizmos like central door
> locking
> > and plastic tubery on the tank sender which failed. On the 300 the plastic
> > insert in the cooling system has just let me down ( See other post ) which
> > necessitated a recovery home and a an aborted parents visit. 0/10 for that
> > component. It disabled the vehicle and in the desert or some such may have
> > been a seriouse problem, unless some Araldite had been carried.
> > Some may argue that the Defender is the last peoper Landie ( or should
> that
> > be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
> > TonyB
> >
> >
>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Sun, 4 Jun 2006 22:45:41 +0300, "Pantelis Giamarellos"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >TonyB Hi,
> >
> >Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> >It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
> >
> >Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
> >1993 and 1994 model year)
> >
> >Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
>
> can you actually get the brass ones still? lot of the earlier engines and
> rads had the same plug in brass. if they're not to be had, then someone
> ought to be in charge of savaging 'em all from the scrap motors. They had
> 'em on the earlier V8s, and also on the earlier 90/110 rads, I think. Same
> plug but in brass and not subject to shearing off. 'course, if the threaded
> bit of the plastic one was solid plastic and not hollow, it'd a) be less
> likely to shear and b) still retain the water in an emergency without its
> head.
>
> typical crap costcutting exercise, again. what thread are they? 3/4" BSP?
>
> Who's got a cnc machine with a bit of spare capacity, it should be possible
> and worthwhile to organise a short production run of brass plugs, to the
> same design as the plastic ones so they take the same O-ring...
>
>

see shameless plug earlier

eeeeee! twice in one thread!

Richard

> >
> >Take care
> >Pantelis
> >
> >"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> > Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
> >> rather
> >> > take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers
> >over
> >> > rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every
> >> other
> >> > week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
> >> > have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened....
> >the
> >> > more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
> >> > jumped when I did.
> >> > Badger.
> >> >
> >> > Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has
> >the
> >> authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
> >> same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually
> >do
> >> thank goodness.
> >>
> >> Back to the OP.
> >>
> >> Having just got the 300Tdi ES Disco I am amazed at how far they have come
> >in
> >> the four years between that model and my '92 Tdi Disco. The ES seems to
> >have
> >> lower suspension, side steps, air con and a slippery leather seat. The
> >> steering wheel is smaller and the ride height lower. The tyres are wider
> >and
> >> lower profile. I would suggest that perhaps the last "proper" Landie (
> >> neatly avoiding the hyphen argument) was the Disco I, which is eminently
> >> "spannerable", yet still let down by modern gizmos like central door
> >locking
> >> and plastic tubery on the tank sender which failed. On the 300 the plastic
> >> insert in the cooling system has just let me down ( See other post ) which
> >> necessitated a recovery home and a an aborted parents visit. 0/10 for that
> >> component. It disabled the vehicle and in the desert or some such may have
> >> been a seriouse problem, unless some Araldite had been carried.
> >> Some may argue that the Defender is the last peoper Landie ( or should
> >that
> >> be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
> >> TonyB
> >>
> >>
> >

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

On or around Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:29:31 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> TonyB Hi,
>>
>> Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
>> It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
>>
>> Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
>> 1993 and 1994 model year)
>>
>> Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
>>
>> Take care
>> Pantelis
>
>
>I've been dying to get this one in.....
>
><shameless plug - ooooh!>
>
>ERR4686B Thermostat Housing Bleed Plug/Radiator Filler -
> Brass - 300Tdi £1.76 inc VAT
>
></shameless plug>
>

excellent. pity they don't fit 'em in the factory instead of the crappy
plastic ones.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:59:05 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

> 'course, if the threaded
>bit of the plastic one was solid plastic and not hollow, it'd a) be less
>likely to shear and b) still retain the water in an emergency without its
>head.
>
>typical crap costcutting exercise, again.

Its probably hollowed out to keep the wall thickness reasonably
constant to avoid filling problems on the injection moulding machine
(cavities or porosity etc) rather than just cost saving for using less
plastic.

David

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:29:31 +0100, beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>
> > "Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> TonyB Hi,
> >>
> >> Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> >> It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
> >>
> >> Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
> >> 1993 and 1994 model year)
> >>
> >> Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
> >>
> >> Take care
> >> Pantelis
> >
> >
> >I've been dying to get this one in.....
> >
> ><shameless plug - ooooh!>
> >
> >ERR4686B Thermostat Housing Bleed Plug/Radiator Filler -
> > Brass - 300Tdi £1.76 inc VAT
> >
> ></shameless plug>
> >
>
> excellent. pity they don't fit 'em in the factory instead of the crappy
> plastic ones.

I'd venture the issue is over-tightening. As they have an O ring,
once they are tightened such that the O ring is in full contact
with both surfaces any further turning will damage the O ring
(brass type) or damage the plug (plastic type), so it *may* be
that the plastic ones are deliberatly designed to fail when
abused to prevent over tightening. Just a thought......but it is
noticable that a couple of our regular trade customers get through
quite a lot, whereas the majority never need them.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

On Sunday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "TonyB" wrote:

> "Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > TonyB Hi,
> >
> > Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
> > It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.
> >
> > Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
> > 1993 and 1994 model year)
> >
> > Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.
> >
> Pantelis, Kalispera,
>
> It wasn't the one on the rad, rather it was the one on the thermostat
> housing.
> I finally got it out without realising that I could take the housing off
> fairly easily. Hence some small bits and a large bit of the old one fell
> into the cooling pathways. I was most concerned about bits blocking the
> cooling tubing and thus covered the expansion tank top with a rag (
> anti-freeze is very very poisonous ) and blew hard into the expansion tank.
> The large part came out with the coolant and I assume the smaller bits did
> too.
>
> Funny enough, by chance I noticed a similar looking plug in the garage which
> was a perfect fit - it was a domestic radiator plug. I won't be using it but
> it might do as an emergency one.

Standard threads--I'd be cautious about differential expansion and
electrolytic corrosion from different metals, and those might be
advantages for a plastic one. But vehicle engineers have been using
metal for a long time.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

On or around Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:05:52 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I'd venture the issue is over-tightening. As they have an O ring,
>once they are tightened such that the O ring is in full contact
>with both surfaces any further turning will damage the O ring
>(brass type) or damage the plug (plastic type), so it *may* be
>that the plastic ones are deliberatly designed to fail when
>abused to prevent over tightening. Just a thought......but it is
>noticable that a couple of our regular trade customers get through
>quite a lot, whereas the majority never need them.

not that the traders are a hamfisted lot

the one I had fail wasn't overtightened by me and failed when attempting to
undo it to fill the engine with coolant.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Roberts" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >> Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
> > rather
> >> take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers
over
> >> rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every
> > other
> >> week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe,
or
> >> have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened....
the
> >> more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad
I
> >> jumped when I did.
> >> Badger.
> >>
> >> Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has
the
> > authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
> > same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually
> > do
> > thank goodness.
> >
> > be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
> > TonyB
> > Hi Group, I agree also, some time back it was decided that our stores
> > should be made more efficient as it was holding too much stock. The
> > computer wizz kids were brought in and checked the movement of the
stock.
> > Some months later with winter fast approaching it was decided to prepare
> > the de-icers ready for winter. There were no spares at all! The answer
was
> > if it hasn't moved in six months we got rid of it. A fresh lot of
> > expensive spares had to be ordered from America.
> Robbie
> >
>
>

> >I'd venture the issue is over-tightening. As they have an O ring,
> >once they are tightened such that the O ring is in full contact
> >with both surfaces any further turning will damage the O ring
> >(brass type) or damage the plug (plastic type), so it *may* be
> >that the plastic ones are deliberatly designed to fail when
> >abused to prevent over tightening. Just a thought......but it is
> >noticable that a couple of our regular trade customers get through
> >quite a lot, whereas the majority never need them.
>
> not that the traders are a hamfisted lot
>
What *really* worries me is that the vehicle has a full service history from
new. The couple I bought it from freely admitted they know nothing about
cars, they put it in for a regular service and assume they have to do
nothing between.

So who sheared the top of a £1.15 plug off and didn't say anything? For that
bit of ham fistedness I nearly lost my engine.

TonyB

On or around Wed, 7 Jun 2006 22:12:52 +0100, "TonyB"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>> >I'd venture the issue is over-tightening. As they have an O ring,
>> >once they are tightened such that the O ring is in full contact
>> >with both surfaces any further turning will damage the O ring
>> >(brass type) or damage the plug (plastic type), so it *may* be
>> >that the plastic ones are deliberatly designed to fail when
>> >abused to prevent over tightening. Just a thought......but it is
>> >noticable that a couple of our regular trade customers get through
>> >quite a lot, whereas the majority never need them.
>>
>> not that the traders are a hamfisted lot
>>
>What *really* worries me is that the vehicle has a full service history from
>new. The couple I bought it from freely admitted they know nothing about
>cars, they put it in for a regular service and assume they have to do
>nothing between.
>
>So who sheared the top of a £1.15 plug off and didn't say anything? For that
>bit of ham fistedness I nearly lost my engine.

The one I had go broke when trying to undo it, and was otherwise fine, ISTR.

Still want to know why they **** around with plastic ones - I bet the cost
difference is truly trivial.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)