Last Land-Rover for mere mortals?

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On 2006-05-24, AJH <[email protected]> wrote:

> I will live with the problem till MOT next month but it would have
> been useful to force it to stay open loop.


You can sometimes force an engine to stay in open loop mode by
unplugging the lambda sensor in the exhaust stream, as then it doesn't
know if it's burning too rich or lean as it has no feedback, hence
"open loop" mode. If you really want it to stay in that mode then you
could try that but if there's a catalytic converter it will probably
wreck it, not to mention run rich or lean. I thought however that
your problem was originally that open loop mode wasn't working very
well.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Wed, 24 May 2006 09:56:27 +0100, Matthew Maddock
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Last I heard on the new was that the reverse is/was true - Ford's
>> Premier Group was losing money while the bread-and-butter stuff
>> was doing well. Mind you, the figures can be "manipulated" to
>> suit, i.e. closing Browns Lane.

>
>This years figures show that Ford made a loss, whist PAG made a
>profit - last year PAG made a loss, I'm not sure about Ford.
>
>Matt


I suspect you will find that Ford, in line with most multinationals,
make losses in high-tax countries and quite good profits in low-tax
ones. Given that most plants buy in lots of components and services
from other 'group' companies overseas it makes sense to set prices
that generate profit in low tax areas.

However, the problems start when the execs forget that their figures
are fictional and decide to close all the loss making plants (in the
high tax countries). They then find that their high profit plants in
Eastern Europe and the like suddenly aren't as profitable any more....


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"
 
Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> However, the problems start when the execs forget that their figures
> are fictional and decide to close all the loss making plants (in the
> high tax countries). They then find that their high profit plants in
> Eastern Europe and the like suddenly aren't as profitable any more....


ROTFL
I worked for a company like that once.
They did a sum that involved dividing the total cost of
running the entire company by the number of shop-floor
hours worked. This gave a feel-factor number for what we
needed to be making in terms of product to stay running.

Then some idiot costing people started to believe that
this was the 'cost' of a shop floor hour and realised
that they could put work out on contract for less. This
meant that some people were on slack time while their
job was sent out to be done at five times what they were
paid. Over the next few years they saved so much money
this way that they went bust.

I'd left by then.

nigelH



*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
 
In message <[email protected]>
"Nigel Hewitt" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > However, the problems start when the execs forget that their figures
> > are fictional and decide to close all the loss making plants (in the
> > high tax countries). They then find that their high profit plants in
> > Eastern Europe and the like suddenly aren't as profitable any more....

>
> ROTFL
> I worked for a company like that once.
> They did a sum that involved dividing the total cost of
> running the entire company by the number of shop-floor
> hours worked. This gave a feel-factor number for what we
> needed to be making in terms of product to stay running.
>
> Then some idiot costing people started to believe that
> this was the 'cost' of a shop floor hour and realised
> that they could put work out on contract for less. This
> meant that some people were on slack time while their
> job was sent out to be done at five times what they were
> paid. Over the next few years they saved so much money
> this way that they went bust.
>
> I'd left by then.
>
> nigelH
>


I had a simlar experience at a large company during the rush
to out-source IT/Software Deveopment in the early 90's. The
potential supplier made constant promises about how much
they could save the company a year, but no one (except me,
the 'trouble maker') asked how much they would charge for
development - "That'll be in there", they said. Right
through to the end of Due Dilligence (posh wording for not
having a clue what pepple do all day) they never asked the
question. Just before signing the contracts, having wasted
vast amounts of money and time (they even sorted out
the pension scheme etc) and alienating half the staff
(you *will* work for this American outfit or get sacked)
someone finaly asked.

The project was canned the same day.

There's something like 2,000 less poeple working on thier
site now, and the senior mamangement *still* haragued the
shop floor to avoid waste.....

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
My first Ford an escort had a "massive" 1300 engine and was capable of 70
mph, something my landie is not capable of.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 24 May 2006 08:26:51 +0100, Matthew Maddock
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
> have to say, "about time too". ultra-cheap gas is all very fine but it
> promotes a recklessly wasteful society. In a country where they had for a
> long time a blanket 55mph limit, they have cars with 7 litre engines. The
> smallest engine per-size-of-car I had was an HC viva with a whole 1256cc,
> which was quite capable of cruising at 55 mph.
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
> I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
> alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)



 
Larry wrote:
> My first Ford an escort had a "massive" 1300 engine and was capable of 70
> mph, something my landie is not capable of.
>
>

You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia. I seem to remember
spending most of my time filling it with ally mesh and Isopon P38 (thats
weird, was it really called that??). The first head I ever removed but I
don't think there was actually anything wrong with it, just curiosity!

gaz

--

1998 V8 HSE P38
1989 V8 RR Classic

If It Ain’t Broken... Fix It ‘Til It Is
 
Gazza wrote:

> You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia.


I had a wee play in an old 105E Anglia on the race track a couple of
weekends ago. It's now powered by a well warmed over 1600cc Toyota and
was putting quite a lot of contemporary vehicles to shame.


--
EMB
 
On or around Thu, 25 May 2006 10:02:57 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Gazza wrote:
>
>> You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia.

>
>I had a wee play in an old 105E Anglia on the race track a couple of
>weekends ago. It's now powered by a well warmed over 1600cc Toyota and
>was putting quite a lot of contemporary vehicles to shame.


the anglia exmplifies what ford used to do well - ordinary basic cars that
are fun to drive and cheap.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
Robert Frost (1874-1963) from Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
 
In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Thu, 25 May 2006 10:02:57 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Gazza wrote:
> >
> >> You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia.

> >
> >I had a wee play in an old 105E Anglia on the race track a couple of
> >weekends ago. It's now powered by a well warmed over 1600cc Toyota and
> >was putting quite a lot of contemporary vehicles to shame.

>
> the anglia exmplifies what ford used to do well - ordinary basic cars that
> are fun to drive and cheap.
>


Sounds farmiliar...... well, except the cheap bit!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
Oh I spent my fair share of time with the Isopon :)

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

"Gazza" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:D[email protected]...
> Larry wrote:
> You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia. I seem to remember
> spending most of my time filling it with ally mesh and Isopon P38 (thats
> weird, was it really called that??). The first head I ever removed but I
> don't think there was actually anything wrong with it, just curiosity!
>
> gaz
>
> --
>
> 1998 V8 HSE P38
> 1989 V8 RR Classic
>
> If It Ain’t Broken... Fix It ‘Til It Is



 
Interesting thing is my first escort was of 1977 vintage, but has long since
gone to the scrapyard in the sky wheras my current landie dates from five
years before this.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gazza wrote:
> >

> I had a wee play in an old 105E Anglia on the race track a couple of
> weekends ago. It's now powered by a well warmed over 1600cc Toyota and
> was putting quite a lot of contemporary vehicles to shame.
>
>
> --
> EMB



 

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b698902c4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On or around Thu, 25 May 2006 10:02:57 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
>> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >Gazza wrote:
>> >
>> >> You were lucky, mine was a 997cc 1965 Ford Anglia.
>> >
>> >I had a wee play in an old 105E Anglia on the race track a couple of
>> >weekends ago. It's now powered by a well warmed over 1600cc Toyota and
>> >was putting quite a lot of contemporary vehicles to shame.

>>
>> the anglia exmplifies what ford used to do well - ordinary basic cars
>> that
>> are fun to drive and cheap.
>>

>
> Sounds farmiliar...... well, except the cheap bit!
>
> Richard
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]


And they had the foresight to leave enough space in the engine bays to drop
in something really really interesting
std =105E 997cc ohv lump 40bhp
barking climbing up the wall mad= Lotus Twincam 160bhp+
don't mention the Cosworth BDA
Derek


 
On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:41:55 GMT, "Derek"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>don't mention the Cosworth BDA


The belt driven A series was originally intended for the Escort wasn't
it?

Remember the (not to happen) Central Sussex Car Club trying to get a
car built around that engine.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005
 

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:41:55 GMT, "Derek"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>don't mention the Cosworth BDA

>
> The belt driven A series was originally intended for the Escort wasn't
> it?
>
> Remember the (not to happen) Central Sussex Car Club trying to get a
> car built around that engine.
>
>
> --

You may well be right I not sure if the BDA was primarily for the Escort or
open wheel racers (Formula Atlantic F2 etc) you can bet cosworth had a list
of applications all mapped out before they blue printed the first engine I
had the pleasure
of the navi's seat in an Anglebox (not in anger btw) fitted with the lotus
lump far more torque than healthy and accleration that really did pin you
into the recaros and the handling of a frog with parkinsons disease. It was
probably the only time I've experienced diff steer in an RWD car a bucket
load of fun tho'.
Derek


 

"Nigel Hewitt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> I worked for a company like that once.
> They did a sum that involved dividing the total cost of
> running the entire company by the number of shop-floor
> hours worked. This gave a feel-factor number for what we
> needed to be making in terms of product to stay running.
>
> Then some idiot costing people started to believe that
> this was the 'cost' of a shop floor hour and realised
> that they could put work out on contract for less. This
> meant that some people were on slack time while their
> job was sent out to be done at five times what they were
> paid. Over the next few years they saved so much money
> this way that they went bust.
>
> I'd left by then.


Hmmmm.... an awful lot of similarity in that tale to what is currently
happening within the MOD, I'm sad to say. Those of you that know me will
know that I left the raf almost a year ago to start my own business, I was
"pushed" (well, actually, I was assisted to jump ship by a rather attractive
redundancy package), although I think I'd have gone anyway.
Some idiot (brain-dead officer) turned up at my old place of work with his
"model" of how things were to change, here's a rough guide to the way it
went, and no, it's not a Monty Python sketch, although it does read good
with the officer's lines done in a john cleese sort of voice......!

Officer. "We can save a fortune by putting all our eggs into one basket,
ramping up production
at "campX" engine bay and closing this one down.
Me. But what about the logistics of shipping engines up and down
the country?
O. There are daily transport runs that bring you the modules to
build the engines from, they'll
just be running engines instead of modules.
Me. But the modules are stackable in their containers, you can only
get 2 engines on a flatbed. Will
the supply system put on extra lorries and drivers if we
need engines in a rush?
O. Now you're getting silly.
Me. "Camp X" historically produces half the engines per month that
we do, would it not be a good
idea to up their production levels before we start to wind
down?
O. They are ramping up as we speak, it'll all be ok once their
floor has been re-done and the new pulse-line
is up and running.
Me. Floor?
O. Ah, yes, you'll need to ramp up again towards the end of next
month for a few weeks while their
hangar floor is re-laid, I'm afraid. All down to contracts,
you know?
Me. Would have been nice if someone had thought of that before
starting this whole process! What
about all the extra acommodation at "CampX" that'll be
needed for their bay to up production? I
mean, you're talking about an extra 200ish bods and that
camp is already housing students that
are there on courses in either portakabins or hotels?
O. I'm glad you asked that one, you see, what we've decided is a
jolly good idea is to house everyone
at "campY" 60 miles away that's in the process of closing
down, and we'll bus them in and out.
Good, eh?
Me. You must be joking, best part of 2 hours on a cold and draughty
raf coach at the start and finish of
each day? You do realise the only road between the 2 camps
travels through the middle of cityX?
That would mean getting out of bed at 5am for an 8am start,
not getting home again until almost 8pm,
when's anyone expected to get any time with their family?
O. Well, we think it's workable, and because we provide the coach
we can save on home-to-duty payments
as well.
Me. Ok then, coming back to the workplace itself, what's this
pulse-line thing all about?
O. Ah, that's the key to the whole project. It's based on the
model of how Toyota build cars and it works
so efficiently because it's so simple. Your engine will move
from workstation to workstation, each station
doing its little bit until the whole is complete.
Me. But the raf don't build toyotas, we repair engines. There's a
difference. Because of the modular nature
of the engine, we remove the module that has the problem and
either repair or replace it, then test the
engine. How can you interrupt a pulse-line process to insert
an engine at a particular place just because
that's the bit that needs looking at? It doesn't work! Oh,
and another thing, we struggle for certain spares
as it is, what effect will it have on pulse if we have 6
engines all stopped at the same build point, all
awaiting the same seal?
O. I think this conversation's gone far enough, I can see you are
simply a disbeliever in the pulse-line
methodology.

Well, that was almost 18 months ago now and what's happened since? The
engine bay at my old camp has indeed gone, "CampX" still struggles to
produce engines of a decent quality, let alone in sufficient numbers, and
there is apparently an acommodation building programme about to get underway
there as well, just in time really as they're tendering off the whole engine
rebuilding/repair side of things to rolls-royce next year! There are more
lorries than ever transporting engines up and down the country, more
aircraft sitting dead awaiting replacement engines, it's harder to get
engine spare parts as "CampX" is holding on to them all, the pulse-line is
stopped more often than it's running due to lack of spares, the troops are
totally demoralised due to the repetitive nature of their jobs now instead
of having a bit of personal pride in completing a whole engine and seeing it
tested.
Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll rather
take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers over
rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every other
week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened.... the
more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
jumped when I did.
Badger.


 
> > Why?
> >

> Bloody mindedness, and a sense of History. After all, it was there for
> thirty years between 1948 and the formation of "Land Rover Ltd." as a
> sub-division of British Leyland in 1978 (9?).


You'll still take off from Heath Row and land at Idlewild too then? :)

TonyB


 
> what exactly *is* OBD?
>

I presume it stands for On Board Diagnostics
TonyB


 
> Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll
rather
> take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers over
> rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every

other
> week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
> have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened.... the
> more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
> jumped when I did.
> Badger.
>
> Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has the

authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually do
thank goodness.

Back to the OP.

Having just got the 300Tdi ES Disco I am amazed at how far they have come in
the four years between that model and my '92 Tdi Disco. The ES seems to have
lower suspension, side steps, air con and a slippery leather seat. The
steering wheel is smaller and the ride height lower. The tyres are wider and
lower profile. I would suggest that perhaps the last "proper" Landie (
neatly avoiding the hyphen argument) was the Disco I, which is eminently
"spannerable", yet still let down by modern gizmos like central door locking
and plastic tubery on the tank sender which failed. On the 300 the plastic
insert in the cooling system has just let me down ( See other post ) which
necessitated a recovery home and a an aborted parents visit. 0/10 for that
component. It disabled the vehicle and in the desert or some such may have
been a seriouse problem, unless some Araldite had been carried.
Some may argue that the Defender is the last peoper Landie ( or should that
be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
TonyB


 
TonyB nearly made me spill my Shiraz on 04/06/2006 17:25 by writing:
>> what exactly *is* OBD?
>>

> I presume it stands for On Board Diagnostics
> TonyB
>


Indeed it does.

Though Obtuse Bloody Disinformation is sometimes a better description of
what you get out of the.

Andy
 
TonyB Hi,

Even Defenders suffer from this plastic plug.
It is there on V8, 200 and 300Tdi engined D90/110s.

Actually this same plastic plug has also broken on BOTH my Disco (200Tdi,
1993 and 1994 model year)

Will be replacing them soon with brass ones made at a friends lathe.

Take care
Pantelis

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Me? I'm sitting back laughing at how stupid the mod really is, it'll

> rather
> > take the word of one officer over 400 troops, then pull the blinkers

over
> > rather than admit it was the wrong decision in the first place. Every

> other
> > week I have someone in the garage telling me yet another tale of woe, or
> > have I heard this, or did I know that such-and-such had happened....

the
> > more I hear the more I'm sure that I made the right decision, I'm glad I
> > jumped when I did.
> > Badger.
> >
> > Yup. Modern amangement. Some twit with a degree and no experience has

the
> authority to say " This is a good idea" and off it goes. The NHS is the
> same. Although I do have a degree, it is relevant to the work I actually

do
> thank goodness.
>
> Back to the OP.
>
> Having just got the 300Tdi ES Disco I am amazed at how far they have come

in
> the four years between that model and my '92 Tdi Disco. The ES seems to

have
> lower suspension, side steps, air con and a slippery leather seat. The
> steering wheel is smaller and the ride height lower. The tyres are wider

and
> lower profile. I would suggest that perhaps the last "proper" Landie (
> neatly avoiding the hyphen argument) was the Disco I, which is eminently
> "spannerable", yet still let down by modern gizmos like central door

locking
> and plastic tubery on the tank sender which failed. On the 300 the plastic
> insert in the cooling system has just let me down ( See other post ) which
> necessitated a recovery home and a an aborted parents visit. 0/10 for that
> component. It disabled the vehicle and in the desert or some such may have
> been a seriouse problem, unless some Araldite had been carried.
> Some may argue that the Defender is the last peoper Landie ( or should

that
> be Landy? ). I wouldn't disagree too much.
> TonyB
>
>



 
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