help please! Me and all else stumped.....

Bit of a long story but will try and remember all thats been done....

D1 V8 1996. 115000miles. petrol/lpg

Noticed lack of oomph esp when towing my horsebox (2000kg)when I couldnt get up hills at more than 25mph on either fuel.

Checked for leaks, had new sparks/leads etc of appropriate nature.

Advised to clean stepper (idle control) - no different.

Changed MAF. Seemed better power wise but then had idle issue on petrol :doh: Everything from stalling to 1750prm - different nearly everytime.

Contacted MAF company and sent it back for an exchange. Meanstwhile ordered new stepper.

Then the dizzy blew - great! Got a new one!

Fitted new stepper - car idled at 2000rpm! Put old one back in. Now bought another and awaiting refund on first one.... Car idle better when warm, all over the place cold. Doesnt always settle to 800 - alot of the time chooses 1000rpm. Still no power.

Put on new MAF - wont cold start with it, goes to 1750 rpm then stalls, although once warm idling is more stable.. (I put old one on to start it, let it warm a bit then put new one on!)

Cant seem to get even idle any more and a series 3 diesel would overtake me!! 0-60 takes about 30 seconds.

Have had ECU read. It only said 'misfire' which new stepper fixed. All other sensors were working as they should. Can this 'read' detect a compression/injection issue?

It idles pretty much ok/stable on lpg, petrol rough. Drives ok with no lumpyness/missing on either fuel. 0-30 is ok. 30-50 is useless after 50 she shoots off again..... :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

Sounds like you've got lots going on there.

My first thoughts are look at the basics first. Do a compression test.

Then take off and clean the plenum and ram housing and check/set the throttle disc. Make sure there are no air leaks when you re-assemble.

Check all your vac lines for splits.

When was the last time the engine had any TLC - oil and filter, air filter, plugs, leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap, engine breathers.

Check the ignition timing and find out how far it has been moved (retarded?) to run on gas. You say you have a new dizzy? I assume vac advance unit will be new also so no issue there.

BTW has the base idle been checked?

If all that checks out then I guess you're in to looking at the injection system but that's entirely a different story. Do the easy stuff first and let us know how you get on.

Do a compression test.

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Who can do that? What does it cost? 4 mechanics its seen and noone mentioned that? Would it come up in an ECU read ie would one of the sensors not throw up something if it wre compression/injector?

Then take off and clean the plenum and ram housing and check/set the throttle disc. Make sure there are no air leaks when you re-assemble.

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I cleaned the filter that sticks out of the plenum chamber - it didn't look too bad. The rest of the description I think I will need a garage to do. way above my head.....

Check all your vac lines for splits

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. Done several times by different people..

When was the last time the engine had any TLC - oil and filter, air filter, plugs, leads, rotor arm, dizzy cap, engine breathers.

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All recently. Complete dizzy and coil being most recent.

Check the ignition timing and find out how far it has been moved (retarded?) to run on gas.

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Done! Was set on petrol. I had the lpg set up last year. It will need done again as battery been disconnected but the idling and lack of power happened before it was disconnected and its running no different. On lpg I get much less probs but the lack of power os on both fuels.

BTW has the base idle been checked?

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eh?

I'd do an even more basic check and remove the spark plugs for study. If they look substantially different from each other thats your first warning sign. Otherwise you can google for sites that interpret your spark plug colour. Or post a picture of all 8 here. Keep track of which one came from which cylinder.

replaced sparks just last month. Looked at each one as mechanic removed them. Didnt look too bad at all and all were same just a little light brown colour. (mechanic said keep them as spares!) Changing these made no difference to vehicle.

Is it rev based or speed/gear based?

Ie does it do it in every gear or just at high speed/high ratios?

Hi

The idle issue is mainly on first start up when its on petrol (cant start on lpg) - new fuel filter ordered.... fingers crossed.

The lack of power seems to be between 35 - 50. Took for a drive and noticed that it wants to go into 4th (2100 rpm, it changes 2nd to 3rd at this rev too) "too early" ie I am still doing 35mph at the time, so dropped auto box into 3rd and made it drive til it was doing 45mph (2500-300rpm)before putting it into D again - brilliant!!!! No 'tired sloth' period - but I dont know why yet. Think I have found a decent MAF supplier I dont need a mortgage for so will get a new one soon.....

It would be useful to know what motor you had as in 1996 the motors changed in the USA, but remained the same in the rest of the world. It would be good to also know what LPG system you have. That is, is it injected or a single point system. Injected still uses your ECU, single point does not. Unlikely to be the MAF if it is doing it on LPG. If not injected LPG, it is most likely the ignition system. Check timing and whether the mechanical advance is working. Your problems will not be related to the vacuum advance.

1 of my cars done that and i traced it to injection system had a dripping injector which casued it to idle badly

It would be useful to know what motor you had

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Its a V8 and I believe is a RRC.

It would be good to also know what LPG system you have.

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Its a millenium OVML.

That is, is it injected or a single point system.

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Not sure.

Injected still uses your ECU, single point does not. Unlikely to be the MAF if it is doing it on LPG. If not injected LPG, it is most likely the ignition system.

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Food for thought but if injector then surely would be misfiring or the like when driving normally on petrol?

Check timing and whether the mechanical advance is working.

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Done timing. dont know what mech advance is?

My new (decent) MAF arrived today and I fitted it. Seemed to have much better power from 30-50. Still idling issue on petrol, some of the time, but drives ok on it and all is well on lpg.
Am getting filters x2 replaced on Wed. Neither looks to have been changed ever!

Seeing you do not know what motor it is, can you at least tell me what is written on the MAF unit. It should tell me what injection system you have.
If you had an injected LPG system you would have 8 small rubber tubes running to near where the petrol injectors are. They would be fitted to brass fittings in the intake manifold just next to the petrol injectors.
To check the mechanical advance, you get a timing light, disconnect the vacuum advance and give the motor a rev. If the timing advances with revs, the mechanical timing is working.
What do you mean that you are replacing two filters.

camshaft, camshaft,camshaft!

camshaft, camshaft,camshaft!

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Oh dont!!! that, like injectors sounds expensive.... Surely if it were cam or injectors then I would be having probs driving on petrol? Its only muckin about during cold idle......

I think lpg is single point as cannot see lots of rubber hoses/brass fittings!

I am replacing the fuel filter under the back wheel arch and the charcoal canister in the engine bay.

There is nothing written on the new MAF. It came from IRdevelopments who tune LR's and the guy said it was OE spec.

The label on the old MAF is mostly missing. All you can really see is the first part of the part number ERR5.....

IRd at tamworth?
Only chips diesels knows most about petrols and less about land rovers only wants easy chip jobs after Market arms are crap any v8 over 80k can do with a cam!
You could have a duff cam of follower has the e u been read when on the road?

IRd at tamworth?

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IRBDevelopments - yes I believe Tamworth. Surely he should supply decent stuff? I dont understand why my car starts but idles erratically with its own MAF and yet starts on first turn of key but stalls with other MAF's? With either once it gets a little warm, I mean about 30 secs then its ok and drives fine. Just dont think has as much power as a V8 should.

after Market arms are crap

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Eh?

any v8 over 80k can do with a cam!

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May be but I've looked up symptoms :cranks but doesnt start - mine does... and seems that it shows more symptoms when warm - mines when its cold. Not disputing it should get a replacement but I need to get to the bottom of the current problem. Can spend money doing other jobs later.

You could have a duff cam of follower

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Eh?

has the e u been read when on the road?

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No, why?
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Again all this is from experience I don't bul**** or try to baffle with science but as you have been round the bushes and don't like what you are being told have can you fix what you don't know?
99 of running faults on a gas converted vehicle are due to the restrictive gas system starving the engine of air thus no go!
Further more many of ird customers now come to me due to his missdiagnosis
Have tried a new temp sensor, had the ecu fault run on the road? As the running is the same with either Afm then it is not the afm is it!
Could also be the dissy vac unit, seized base plate, poor cap leads and rotor did irb offer any ideas or just sell a afm to cure it?!

99 of running faults on a gas converted vehicle are due to the restrictive gas system starving the engine of air thus no go!

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It idles fine on lpg. But have same lack of power on both fuels.

Further more many of ird customers now come to me due to his missdiagnosis

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Mnnn interesting....

Have tried a new temp sensor, had the ecu fault run on the road? As the running is the same with either Afm then it is not the afm is it!

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Very true! Will try temp sensor.

Could also be the dissy vac unit, seized base plate, poor cap leads and rotor did irb offer any ideas or just sell a afm to cure it?!

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Complete new dizzy assembly and coil etc a month ago. New leads/sparks etc recently. IRB offered no ideas or asked what problem was, just quoted and sold afm.... I will email him with prob with it and hopefully I can get a refund on it.

If you want it fixing call me for a proper look and diagnosis if you want a reference contact fet

Thank you for offer, I am 30 miles North of Edinburgh! Can you recommend anyone closer or do you travel this way?

Will be in Aberdeen next weekend then Kinross on Sunday any good?