ratty
I'm not special I'm limited edition
- Posts
- 34,277
Hand cranking Td4...I've been a total @*&$!
- Thread starter Oscar22
- Start date
This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
Right, a nice evening spent! 
Removed manifold, and on bro's recommendation started her up once I'd cranked her manually a few (30 odd) times.
Would have removed injectors but didn't have the correct equipment (deep 10mm socket). Not that I was ignoring all the advice, but if people still think it's essential, then let me know and I'll try and get the equipment. To be honest I'm not sure what you gain from taking the plugs out when you have the inlet manifold off? Perhaps someone could enlighten me?
She ran - and it didn't sound too bad. So tomorrows job is an oil and filter change, then see how we go! (unless we think injectors/plugs are essential.
Thanks again for all the help.
Oscar
Removed manifold, and on bro's recommendation started her up once I'd cranked her manually a few (30 odd) times.
Would have removed injectors but didn't have the correct equipment (deep 10mm socket). Not that I was ignoring all the advice, but if people still think it's essential, then let me know and I'll try and get the equipment. To be honest I'm not sure what you gain from taking the plugs out when you have the inlet manifold off? Perhaps someone could enlighten me?
She ran - and it didn't sound too bad. So tomorrows job is an oil and filter change, then see how we go! (unless we think injectors/plugs are essential.
Thanks again for all the help.
Oscar
Last edited:
- Posts
- 83,235
- Location
- Embasinga stocæ
either stoopid or remarkably lucky!.
Dann
Active Member
- Posts
- 545
- Location
- Middle Earth
Right, a nice evening spent!
Removed manifold, and on bro's recommendation started her up once I'd cranked her manually a few (30 odd) times.
Would have removed injectors but didn't have the correct equipment (deep 10mm socket). Not that I was ignoring all the advice, but if people still think it's essential, then let me know and I'll try and get the equipment. To be honest I'm not sure what you gain from taking the plugs out when you have the inlet manifold off? Perhaps someone could enlighten me?
She ran - and it didn't sound too bad. So tomorrows job is an oil and filter change, then see how we go! (unless we think injectors/plugs are essential.
Thanks again for all the help.
Oscar
Oscar. Sounds like you have been lucky. Now buy lotto ticket, back 100 to 1 outsider, change oil and filter. get on with life.
You have been given great advice. Take it.
DO NOT TURN THE ENGINE OVER!
Take FOUR glow plugs out - one from each cylinder.
Take the air pipe off at the inlet manifold, and pray that it is dry. Put it back.
But you said you started the engine, and then it stopped?
quote ...
So after emptying the coolant, I started by flushing the radiator - except I didn't - I filled the Intercooler with water because instead of removing the radiator top pipe I removed the Intercooler 'in' pipe.
So having done this, and not realising, I started the engine, which obviously stopped promptly. Then I realised....
unquote
Question now is this - WHY DID THE ENGINE STOP?
If it sucked a heap of water into a cylinder ... bad news.
I suggest you whip out the glow plugs and then whirl the engine over on the starter. Stand clear of the side of the engine else you may get shot by a slug of high velocity water.
Then if you have an airline turn the cylinders one by one onto an EXHAUST stroke, and fire compressed air into the glowplug holes of each cylinder as hard as you can to blast any left-over water out the exhaust ports.
Coppergrease the glow plugs, refit them, and see if she starts.
Let us know what happens. It is reasonably encouraging that it turns over.
CharlesY
DO NOT TURN THE ENGINE OVER!
Take FOUR glow plugs out - one from each cylinder.
Take the air pipe off at the inlet manifold, and pray that it is dry. Put it back.
But you said you started the engine, and then it stopped?
quote ...
So after emptying the coolant, I started by flushing the radiator - except I didn't - I filled the Intercooler with water because instead of removing the radiator top pipe I removed the Intercooler 'in' pipe.
So having done this, and not realising, I started the engine, which obviously stopped promptly. Then I realised....
unquote
Question now is this - WHY DID THE ENGINE STOP?
If it sucked a heap of water into a cylinder ... bad news.
I suggest you whip out the glow plugs and then whirl the engine over on the starter. Stand clear of the side of the engine else you may get shot by a slug of high velocity water.
Then if you have an airline turn the cylinders one by one onto an EXHAUST stroke, and fire compressed air into the glowplug holes of each cylinder as hard as you can to blast any left-over water out the exhaust ports.
Coppergrease the glow plugs, refit them, and see if she starts.
Let us know what happens. It is reasonably encouraging that it turns over.
CharlesY
- Posts
- 83,235
- Location
- Embasinga stocæ
I have this feeling that he aint listening, CharlesY
Unbelievable .... how could taking off the inlet manifold possibly affect compression in the cylinders?
How can people who claim to be good drivers be so hopelessly unaware of how an engine works?
They are driving around unsupervised, and it's impossible to identify them till it's too late.
A bit like vampires I suppose.
Oh well ....
CharlesY
How can people who claim to be good drivers be so hopelessly unaware of how an engine works?
They are driving around unsupervised, and it's impossible to identify them till it's too late.
A bit like vampires I suppose.
Oh well ....
CharlesY
Darmain
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,366
- Location
- Chippenham, Wiltshire
Its okay if someone doesn't know the details of how the engine works, so long as they recognise that. Then leave well alone until either you do know or you get some in who knows. In this case, help was asked for therefore indicating the lack of knowledge, advice given, and then it appears action taken that could have easily destroyed the engine. I hope the gamble paided off and the engine is alright. It could be that the engine couldn't suck in much water but the restricted airflow wouldn't allow the engine is idle. Thank God he didn't hoof the throttle!!
More over, how did this actually happen. It doesn't make sense. If you drain the cooling system you have to invoke a major leak at a low point in the system, like removing the lower radiator pipe. If you flush the radiator you are pushing water in one hole and letting it, and any crap, out of another hole. Is it not reasonable to assume that you would still have the lower radiator hose off to allow the flush to take place. Now if the intercooler was filled in error, wouldn't the lack of exiting water raise suspisions of a problem? So the cooling system was then sealed and refilled without investigating as to what happened to the flush water. I can't see how this could get this far, let alone how anyone would even contemplate starting the engine after this.
Two possibilities come to mind. First, this persons cars should have their bonnets locked by a professional mechanic or Second, this is a wind up!!
More over, how did this actually happen. It doesn't make sense. If you drain the cooling system you have to invoke a major leak at a low point in the system, like removing the lower radiator pipe. If you flush the radiator you are pushing water in one hole and letting it, and any crap, out of another hole. Is it not reasonable to assume that you would still have the lower radiator hose off to allow the flush to take place. Now if the intercooler was filled in error, wouldn't the lack of exiting water raise suspisions of a problem? So the cooling system was then sealed and refilled without investigating as to what happened to the flush water. I can't see how this could get this far, let alone how anyone would even contemplate starting the engine after this.
Two possibilities come to mind. First, this persons cars should have their bonnets locked by a professional mechanic or Second, this is a wind up!!
Believe me it's not a wind up, I only wish it was!
I think what happened was that water was overflowing from where I was inserting it into the i'cooler (i.e not a lot was going in and most was coming straight back out), and therefore from the bottom looked as if something was exiting the radiator bottom pipe, which sits vertically below the intercooler inlet pipe. In reality it was dripping through the engine bay and coming out near the rad bottom pipe. I then refilled the cooling system and started before I'd realised what I'd done wrong. Believe me, I have gone through it in my head so many times it makes me feel sick.
Regarding the advice - I am very grateful, as always on this forum - but I did have my bro guiding me through everything, and he is a trained LR mechanic, so anything done against advice on the forum was with the background and benefit of his advice, not just ignorantly.
I think the thought was, rightly or wrongly, that if the engine cranked over manually it would be OK to give it a crank with the starter.
Again thanks to all who commented.
April fool? That would be me, not the problem I'm having. A lock on my bonnet might well be a good course of action.
Oscar
I think what happened was that water was overflowing from where I was inserting it into the i'cooler (i.e not a lot was going in and most was coming straight back out), and therefore from the bottom looked as if something was exiting the radiator bottom pipe, which sits vertically below the intercooler inlet pipe. In reality it was dripping through the engine bay and coming out near the rad bottom pipe. I then refilled the cooling system and started before I'd realised what I'd done wrong. Believe me, I have gone through it in my head so many times it makes me feel sick.
Regarding the advice - I am very grateful, as always on this forum - but I did have my bro guiding me through everything, and he is a trained LR mechanic, so anything done against advice on the forum was with the background and benefit of his advice, not just ignorantly.
I think the thought was, rightly or wrongly, that if the engine cranked over manually it would be OK to give it a crank with the starter.
Again thanks to all who commented.
April fool? That would be me, not the problem I'm having. A lock on my bonnet might well be a good course of action.
Oscar
ianda12
Active Member
- Posts
- 837
- Location
- Gravesend, Kent
I was just about to make some sarcastic remark about how removing manifolds can relieve pressure in the cylinders, but I just can't be bothered. He's just been bloody lucky !!!!
Darmain
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,366
- Location
- Chippenham, Wiltshire
Well Oscar, my hat is off to you for your honesty. You are a very lucky individual. We all make mistakes and I've done some daft things in my time. I hope you have got away with this one and your engine is fit for service again.
I don't think anyone answered your queston about the difference between glow plugs and the inlet manifold.
The fundamental difference is the inlet manifold is the wrong side of the the inlet valve gear. The inlet valve seal the air into the combustion chamber ready for compression. In your case there was the high risk this was water. Where air will compress into a space 1/20th of the original volume, water will most definately not. If you had a combustion chamber full of water then the piston would stop part way up the bore, but the crankshaft would not have stopped. The likely failure would be the connecting rods either bending or snapping (normally coming through the side of the block).
On the other hand, the glow plugs are actually in the combusion chamber itself so their removal prevents the compresson stroke from actually building up any significant pressure and allows the water to exit safely. Once the water had been removed from the combustion chambers then the plugs can be replaced. Assuming all water had been cleared from the inlet tract then following an oil and filter change, the engine should be fit for service.
I would recommend a nice long gentle drive to let the engine clear any remaining trace water out from where its is not supposed to be.
I don't think anyone answered your queston about the difference between glow plugs and the inlet manifold.
The fundamental difference is the inlet manifold is the wrong side of the the inlet valve gear. The inlet valve seal the air into the combustion chamber ready for compression. In your case there was the high risk this was water. Where air will compress into a space 1/20th of the original volume, water will most definately not. If you had a combustion chamber full of water then the piston would stop part way up the bore, but the crankshaft would not have stopped. The likely failure would be the connecting rods either bending or snapping (normally coming through the side of the block).
On the other hand, the glow plugs are actually in the combusion chamber itself so their removal prevents the compresson stroke from actually building up any significant pressure and allows the water to exit safely. Once the water had been removed from the combustion chambers then the plugs can be replaced. Assuming all water had been cleared from the inlet tract then following an oil and filter change, the engine should be fit for service.
I would recommend a nice long gentle drive to let the engine clear any remaining trace water out from where its is not supposed to be.
Probably trained by and working for a Main Stealer LR Dealer...
I still find it hard to believe; and is he saying this TRAINED LR MECHANIC sttod by and watched, or actually helped while the INTERCOOLER was filled with water?
God Help his employer's customers is all I can say.
CharlesY
Chaser
New Member
- Posts
- 2,175
think you missed this bit charlesy....
Just to clarify - he wasn't there whilst I put the water in the wrong hole, just for the emergency call afterwards, and from then on as a consultant!
He is actually an army mechanic, and a feckin good one at that, so don't start throwing insults around please. His advice worked perfectly, and was sound - evidently. Not that anybody else's wasn't - I just chose to follow his. If the engine was hydrolocked it would have been different -my actions and his advice that is.
Anyway, it seems all turned out alright in the end (I hope) - the car is running and I drove it last night and this morning.
Darmain - thanks a lot for the clear explanation - confirms everything that I have learned over the last few days.
Thanks again all the others too, much appreciated.
Oscar
Darmain
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 2,366
- Location
- Chippenham, Wiltshire
Glad to be of service.
Similar threads
Freelander 2 (LR2)
Engine Removal Sequence