Exhaust Fittings & Copper SliP?

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R

RichardB

Guest


Hi All,

Having spent most of the afternoon battling to
replace the exhaust down-pipe on my LR90 which,
included sheering one of the studs, I wondered if
I should use copper slip when re-assembling?

I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and
whether it will just go rock hard and be a
pointless exercise?

What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of
the system?

Regards

RichardB


--
Every day of my life I am forced to add another
person to the list of people who **** me off....
 
RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of
> the system?
>
> Regards
>
> RichardB

Personal thoughts are it'll burn off.

I fear the only soloution is a good soaking before removal in plus gas or
even diesel next time around.

Often find that such a simple task is made mamouth by the need to replace
studs.

Percy (IIa with the Jag lump) had Copper / brass ? I forget nuts on the
manifold to down pipe. they were designed to be oval to form a lock nut and
never had any rot on them, though they were not at all cheap and OE parts
from Jaguar.

Lee D
--
www.lrproject.com

a.f.l. & 101ers Unofficial October 2006
<http://www.lrproject.com/afl__101_owners_unofficial.htm>

"Anti's - Give
them enough rope and they'll be stuck in a ditch with alot of rope ;-) "


 
RichardB wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Having spent most of the afternoon battling to replace the exhaust
> down-pipe on my LR90 which, included sheering one of the studs, I
> wondered if I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>
> I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and whether it will just go
> rock hard and be a pointless exercise?
>
> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of the system?
>
> Regards
>
> RichardB

It won't do any harm but depending what you use may not, as you
already suspect, do much good either.

Genuine Copaslip does quite a good job but there are many imitations
which are as good as useless. There are some that intentionally
provide 'dry' lubrication when they get really hot (e.g. Wolfracote TOP).

You're safe from things going 'rock hard' - the poor ones just
disappear! Brass or Helicoil nuts also work. The problem with brass
ones is that you may need to tighten them more than they will stand.
The Helicoil ones can corrode leaving only the stainless coil.
 
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:50:49 +0100, RichardB
<rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> wrote:

>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Having spent most of the afternoon battling to
>replace the exhaust down-pipe on my LR90 which,
>included sheering one of the studs, I wondered if
>I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>
>I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and
>whether it will just go rock hard and be a
>pointless exercise?
>
>What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of
>the system?

Copperslip won't last long with the temperatures involved, but it's
probably better than nothing. Generally I use brass nuts on manifolds
and downpipes and hi-grade stainless nuts/bolts on the other flanges.
Brass nuts are a two-edged sword because whilst they don't corrode on,
you cannot get them as tight as steel nuts, so they can come undone.
It's not recommended to re-use them either. If the gasket requires a
lot of tightening, then you could clamp it up tight using steel nuts,
let the gasket compress for a bit and then replace the steel nuts with
brass ones. Square.spring washers also help if using brass nuts.

Alex
 
On or around Sat, 02 Sep 2006 18:50:49 +0100, RichardB
<rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> enlightened us thusly:

>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Having spent most of the afternoon battling to
>replace the exhaust down-pipe on my LR90 which,
>included sheering one of the studs, I wondered if
>I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>

like they said, brass nuts, but they're difficult to find. proper ones are
thicker than steel nuts so they're strong enough.

If you put stainless steel nuts on, then at least the nuts don't rust...
stainless and copper grease, I reckon. The copper will stay there, even if
the grease part burns off.

when doing the sort of joints with bolts, stainless ones.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
0123456789112345678921234567893123456789412345678951234567896123456789712345
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RichardB wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Having spent most of the afternoon battling to replace the exhaust
> down-pipe on my LR90 which, included sheering one of the studs, I
> wondered if I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>
> I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and whether it will just go
> rock hard and be a pointless exercise?
>
> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of the system?

Nickel based anti-seize seems to handle the heat better and does a good job.


--
EMB
 
RichardB wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Having spent most of the afternoon battling to replace the exhaust
> down-pipe on my LR90 which, included sheering one of the studs, I
> wondered if I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>
> I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and whether it will just go
> rock hard and be a pointless exercise?
>
> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of the system?
>
> Regards
>
> RichardB
>
>
I use copper slip - the real stuff - it does burn away, but that's the whole
point, the grease element burns away leaving a coating of copper & lead etc behind.

My preference is to use brass nuts - I make my own, it's only a minute's work to
knock them out if you have a lathe & the appropriate size of tap. I make mine
about 1/2" deep (this for a 5/16 UNF) to give them extra threads so as to enable
a bit more tightening. 1/2 A/F brass stock is readily available - my local non
ferrous supplier is happy to flog me slightly bent stock as auto lathes can't
use it, whereas my little Myford lathe handles it fine when it's cut up a bit.


--
Karen

"Sometimes I think I have a Guardian Idiot - a little invisible spirit just
behind my shoulder, looking out for me ... only he's an imbecile" - Jake Stonebender
 
On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:10:45 +1000, Duracell Bunny
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>My preference is to use brass nuts - I make my own, it's only a minute's work to
> knock them out if you have a lathe & the appropriate size of tap. I make mine
>about 1/2" deep (this for a 5/16 UNF) to give them extra threads so as to enable
>a bit more tightening. 1/2 A/F brass stock is readily available - my local non
>ferrous supplier is happy to flog me slightly bent stock as auto lathes can't
>use it, whereas my little Myford lathe handles it fine when it's cut up a bit.

'course, not all LR owners have a lathe...

I could do metric ones easy enough if I find a supplier of brass hex stock.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.
 
Lee_D wrote:
> RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of
>> the system?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> RichardB
>
> Personal thoughts are it'll burn off.
>
> I fear the only soloution is a good soaking before removal in plus gas or
> even diesel next time around.

Soaked in penetrating oil for days before I
attempted the job! However I did use it so I guess
that just burns off too.

I like the idea, that has been suggested elsewhere
in thread, to us brass nuts after tightening up
with steel ones.

However, would stainless steel nuts not have
similar resistance to corrosion as the brass ones?

Regards

RichardB
 
Duracell Bunny wrote:
> RichardB wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Having spent most of the afternoon battling to replace the exhaust
>> down-pipe on my LR90 which, included sheering one of the studs, I
>> wondered if I should use copper slip when re-assembling?
>>
>> I'm not sure just how heat tolerant it is and whether it will just go
>> rock hard and be a pointless exercise?
>>
>> What do you guys recommend at the manifold end of the system?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> RichardB
>>
>>
> I use copper slip - the real stuff - it does burn away, but that's the
> whole point, the grease element burns away leaving a coating of copper &
> lead etc behind.
>
> My preference is to use brass nuts - I make my own, it's only a minute's
> work to knock them out if you have a lathe & the appropriate size of
> tap. I make mine about 1/2" deep (this for a 5/16 UNF) to give them
> extra threads so as to enable a bit more tightening. 1/2 A/F brass stock
> is readily available - my local non ferrous supplier is happy to flog me
> slightly bent stock as auto lathes can't use it, whereas my little
> Myford lathe handles it fine when it's cut up a bit.
>
>

I'd love to have the skills and hardware to make
my own. However, I struggle with a spanner and
hammer so no chance!

Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality
copper slip (noting that the grease burns off and
leaves the copper...) and stainless steel fittings.

Now I just need to get the broken stud out so that
I can fit the new down-pipe. Will have to wait as
it's a bit wet outside at the moment....

Regards

RichardB
 
RichardB wrote:

> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting that
> the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless steel
> fittings.

Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes brittle
with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on impossible to
drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.

I tend to use Toyota exhaust studs and nuts (with anti-seize) which are
semi-stainless and don't seem to either snap or lock up (and are still
drillable if the worst happens). So far (touch wood) I've never broken
one. M10 head-to-manifold studs off most of the 90's Toyota engines do
the job after a bit of judicious re-tapping of the appropriate holes.

--
EMB
 
EMB wrote:
> RichardB wrote:
>
>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting
>> that the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless
>> steel fittings.
>
> Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes brittle
> with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on impossible to
> drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>
> I tend to use Toyota exhaust studs and nuts (with anti-seize) which are
> semi-stainless and don't seem to either snap or lock up (and are still
> drillable if the worst happens). So far (touch wood) I've never broken
> one. M10 head-to-manifold studs off most of the 90's Toyota engines do
> the job after a bit of judicious re-tapping of the appropriate holes.
>

Noted! When I finally get the stud out I'll use
copper slip and ordinary steel nuts.

Having read the label on my tin of copper slip is
says it is effective at over 1000C.

Regards,

RichardB
 
On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:55:09 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>RichardB wrote:
>
>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting that
>> the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless steel
>> fittings.
>
>Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes brittle
>with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on impossible to
>drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.

stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.


Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if I make
some :)
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25
 
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:55:09 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> RichardB wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting
>>> that the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless
>>> steel fittings.
>>
>> Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes
>> brittle with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on
>> impossible to drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>
> stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.
>
>
> Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if
> I make some :)

Like I said , I got some from Jaguar OE cira 1978 XK lump exhaust manifold..
I'd be a pound to a pinch of doo dah they are the same thread. they were
about 3x the lenth of a conventional nut too and oval by design to make them
lock on that bit sooner before the threads are ripped out.

No doubt an on line classic jag specialist / ebay will turn up the thread
sizes.

Lee D


 
RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> EMB wrote:
>> RichardB wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting
>>> that the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless
>>> steel fittings.
>>
>> Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes
>> brittle with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on
>> impossible to drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>>
>> I tend to use Toyota exhaust studs and nuts (with anti-seize) which
>> are semi-stainless and don't seem to either snap or lock up (and are
>> still drillable if the worst happens). So far (touch wood) I've
>> never broken one. M10 head-to-manifold studs off most of the 90's
>> Toyota engines do the job after a bit of judicious re-tapping of the
>> appropriate holes.
>
> Noted! When I finally get the stud out I'll use
> copper slip and ordinary steel nuts.
>
> Having read the label on my tin of copper slip is
> says it is effective at over 1000C.
>
> Regards,
>
> RichardB

I wonder?

330023932655

Ebay.


Lee D


 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:55:09 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> RichardB wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting that
>>> the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless steel
>>> fittings.
>> Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes brittle
>> with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on impossible to
>> drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>
> stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.
>
>
> Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if I make
> some :)

You've got plenty of time to make some up. Still
not got the effing stud remnants out.....:-(

RichardB
 
Lee_D wrote:
> RichardB <rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>
>>EMB wrote:
>>
>>>RichardB wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting
>>>>that the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless
>>>>steel fittings.
>>>
>>>Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes
>>>brittle with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on
>>>impossible to drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>>>
>>>I tend to use Toyota exhaust studs and nuts (with anti-seize) which
>>>are semi-stainless and don't seem to either snap or lock up (and are
>>>still drillable if the worst happens). So far (touch wood) I've
>>>never broken one. M10 head-to-manifold studs off most of the 90's
>>>Toyota engines do the job after a bit of judicious re-tapping of the
>>>appropriate holes.
>>
>>Noted! When I finally get the stud out I'll use
>>copper slip and ordinary steel nuts.
>>
>>Having read the label on my tin of copper slip is
>>says it is effective at over 1000C.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>RichardB
>
>
> I wonder?
>
> 330023932655
>
> Ebay.
>
>
> Lee D

5/16" BSF ??
 
On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:17:38 +0100, RichardB
<rDOTbush@btconnectDOTcom> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>> On or around Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:55:09 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
>> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>> RichardB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks like the answer, for me, is good quality copper slip (noting that
>>>> the grease burns off and leaves the copper...) and stainless steel
>>>> fittings.
>>> Don't use stainless - it locks up absolutely solid and becomes brittle
>>> with the heat. And when you you snap it it's nigh on impossible to
>>> drill out because it also becomes bloody hard.
>>
>> stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.
>>
>>
>> Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if I make
>> some :)
>
>You've got plenty of time to make some up. Still
>not got the effing stud remnants out.....:-(
>
>RichardB

yeah, but I've not got any hex brass stock... Given the stock, nuts would
be a doddle. I've seen 'em for sale, in Halfrauds of all places. But the
modern ones are normal nut sized, and wouldn't be strong enough. Traditional
1/2" a/f ones used to be about 1/2" deep as well, so they don't strip.

All the old motors used to have brass nuts on the exhaust manifold and on
any exhaust flanges.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.

Each unto their own - I always find they pick up on the threads and
strip the stud (or it snaps).

>
> Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if I make
> some :)

I can buy them off the shelf for sod all money (well under a quid each)
but I find they tend to work loose unless a long stud and locknut is used.


--
EMB
 
EMB wrote:

> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> stainless nuts on plain steel studs are OK, IME though.
>
> Each unto their own - I always find they pick up on the threads and
> strip the stud (or it snaps).
>
>>
>> Brass nuts are the cure though. how much will people pay for 'em if I
>> make some :)
>
> I can buy them off the shelf for sod all money (well under a quid each)
> but I find they tend to work loose unless a long stud and locknut is used.
>
>
A couple of weeks ago I replaced the exhaust gasket on my 110 (3.9 diesel),
which comes as standard with brass nuts on the exhaust pipe (but not the
studs in the head strangely). About fifty kilometres later it started
making a noise again - two loose brass nuts, and one missing. As the
nearest shop selling such things is 60km away, I made a replacement nut -
and three lock nuts. No more problems (so far anyway).
JD
 
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