Deal or no Deal?

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redhand said:
Half the car dealers I know fiddle their taxes and their VAT. and the other half just won't admit to it. As for stnading behind their sale if bluster threats and refusal to accept any responsibility for their sales count as standing behind it then you may have a point. I think Biglad was referring to smaller car dealers as opposed to main stealers an franchised networks
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:D :D :D you need to keep better company, you mix with some very unsavory 'car dealers' if that's what they call themselves:rolleyes:

I wish I knew how to fiddle VAT, I'm just an unpaid tax collector for HM:mad:

...can't see how you can fiddle it if you keep books....you will have two invoices 'bought in' price and 'sold on' price, the VAT is paid on the difference between the two figures, NOT the profit margin.

..I have often have to pay VAT on a car that I have lost money on...example with easy figures to keep it simple...buy car for £1,000, spend £1,000 on repairs, car now owes £2,000, sell for £2,000 but I still pay VAT on £1,000...we call it false VAT in the trade


it's not all Ferrari's, sunny holidays, fine wines and Belgium chocolates;)
 
iconic said:
Really, bash my b*lls with an iron bar I'm doing it wrong?


...and remember if you had say a £1,000 profit in a car you then need to subtract VAT @17.5% and tax at your tax level and stand behind it for any comebacks. :eek:

I will say that for a good clean Disco', 5dr diesel, sold all good, with verified miles, all clear HPI with proper service history from new to date you got a steal with your one...I couldn't buy that thru the trade for that money!:cool:
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Hi iconic, we both know that all the profit is ALWAYS made when buying the cars in, NOT at the point of sale. If you can't buy them right, you can't sell them at a decent profit.

Don't you see that you have just PROVED my point with the quote above - you have expenses, you're doing this to make a living so you need to clear good money, otherwise there's no point in opening the doors.

But from the viewpoint of the buyer, what they get is a £2000 to £2500 car. And if you don't accept that, then tell me how you would give as a trade-in on a Disco someone bought from you 6 months ago for £3500 to £4000. We both know it'll be £2000 if he's lucky.

Nobody is disputing that you have a right to make a profit, but lets just see things as they REALLY are.

I'm not havin' a go.....................
 
iconic said:
:D :D :D you need to keep better company, you mix with some very unsavory 'car dealers' if that's what they call themselves:rolleyes:

I wish I knew how to fiddle VAT, I'm just an unpaid tax collector for HM:mad:

...can't see how you can fiddle it if you keep books....you will have two invoices 'bought in' price and 'sold on' price, the VAT is paid on the difference between the two figures, NOT the profit margin.

..I have often have to pay VAT on a car that I have lost money on...example with easy figures to keep it simple...buy car for £1,000, spend £1,000 on repairs, car now owes £2,000, sell for £2,000 but I still pay VAT on £1,000...we call it false VAT in the trade


it's not all Ferrari's, sunny holidays, fine wines and Belgium chocolates;)
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Next you'll be saying you don't lie about the tradein values on yer tax return.
 
SimonKeyes said:
is it worth going out and spending £6k? I know you will point out it is dependent on what you are looking for but I want a pre 2001 model so as to not hit the new tax system. I am looking for something like a 2000 2.5 TDI Auto - am I looking to spend to much?
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I have a 1999 TD5 auto and I'd be very surprised (and happy) to get anything like £6k for it. But it would probably go for that once the dealer had added profit and fixed the bent side step. The problem is that the electric bits are gonna start showing their age soon and you can't fix those yourself. Engine repair can be quite complex too (just had a new head and it wasn't cheap). I think I'd go for the newest I could find and be prepared to swallow the extra tax in return for smaller repair bills. I'm reckoning on keeping mine for a couple more years with fingers crossed - say another 40k miles, but it won't go on for ever like the old ones..
 
iconic said:
I will say that for a good clean Disco', 5dr diesel, sold all good, with verified miles, all clear HPI with proper service history from new to date you got a steal with your one...I couldn't buy that thru the trade for that money!:cool:
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You gotta be ****ting us? You MUST be going to main stealers for your vehicles. An R reg vehicle down this way in tidy condition with service history etc would fetch a couple of thousand thru the trade. Are you saying that all I have to do is buy a vehicle down by me and ship it to you and you will give me an extra £2000 for my time?
I'm in the wrong job.
 
ratty said:
You gotta be ****ting us? You MUST be going to main stealers for your vehicles. An R reg vehicle down this way in tidy condition with service history etc would fetch a couple of thousand thru the trade. Are you saying that all I have to do is buy a vehicle down by me and ship it to you and you will give me an extra £2000 for my time?
I'm in the wrong job.
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its not that unreal, i used to buy cars at an auction near Glasgow and drive them straight over to Kinross and sell em there a few days later. in most cases you got more fer yer cars at Kinross than you did at Glasgow. then after a few months the trend would reverse and you'd buy at Kinross and sell at Glasgow.
 
slob said:
its not that unreal, i used to buy cars at an auction near Glasgow and drive them straight over to Kinross and sell em there a few days later. in most cases you got more fer yer cars at Kinross than you did at Glasgow. then after a few months the trend would reverse and you'd buy at Kinross and sell at Glasgow.
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I know there ARE price differences depending on the type, demand and condition of different vehicles in different areas. Like you say you buy in the cheep area and sell in the expensive are to maximise profits. I bought my current vehicle in scotland cos Defenders were cheaper up there. What sort of car dealer buys a car in an area that will not give a profit unless you extort stupidly overinflated prices out of a buyer?
 
ratty said:
I know there ARE price differences depending on the type, demand and condition of different vehicles in different areas. Like you say you buy in the cheep area and sell in the expensive are to maximise profits. I bought my current vehicle in scotland cos Defenders were cheaper up there. What sort of car dealer buys a car in an area that will not give a profit unless you extort stupidly overinflated prices out of a buyer?
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The profit in cars is always made at the buying stage - not the selling stage.

If you buy right, you can sell right, which means you sell cars. If you can't buy right, you're in the wrong business.
 
Dare not comment on tax:p

Found this one very local to me but priced high and no tow bar so probably a no go but will view to give me an idea of a decent model - looks in good nick.

Discovery TD5

Pics will only display in Internet Explorer. What are the key things to look out for when viewing a Disco i.e. door hinges, seals, smoke from cold start etc? Oh and if it is a Y plate is this pre the tax on emissions?
 
iconic said:
..I have often have to pay VAT on a car that I have lost money on...example with easy figures to keep it simple...buy car for £1,000, spend £1,000 on repairs, car now owes £2,000, sell for £2,000 but I still pay VAT on £1,000...we call it false VAT in the trade


it's not all Ferrari's, sunny holidays, fine wines and Belgium chocolates;)
Click to expand...


If you buy for a grand, as in your example, spend a grand on it and then sell it for two grand you won't have to worry about being a car dealer long-term will you?

Yes I know it was just a simple example to demonstrate a point, but surely in the 4x4 market today, a more accurate example would be buy for a grand, £50 for a valet and sell for £2495 ??
 
Ok, lets bite it's what you guys clearly want...big glad you are surely talking out of your backside zero understanding of how car sales business works, do it yourself, it's easy just as you say, but no I suspect you won't as you are the sort of messor we normally tell to "leave the site many thanks though"...


.....I only wished to help and enlighten you guys as to what is fair price for a fair car but so far I have had people telling me I don't pay tax or VAT, without you even knowing me, and that a low mileage 98 Disco ES wind and skin auto diesel is worth £2,000...OK lets bring it back to you, I will give you £2,200 for every genuine low mile ES diesel auto you can lay hands on with clear HPI, full history and ready to go needing no paintwork with EVERYTHING working 100%...there you go a £200 profit for you, let me know where I can pick them up and I will pay cash upfront...will you supply the cars, of course you won't...you can't buy for them that and we all know that....if you do there is always storey to the car.

It's funny how a lot of the posts here are from guys buying cars from private punters and then saying..."my gearbox crunches", "my car overheats", "my cars billows out blue smoke" blah blah blah...but you guys then say that a dealer is only out to screw you, if I sell I bad car we have laws to protect you, if you go private then buyer beware, how many threads here say "best sell that car on" so that's OK then for one private guy to screw another private guy

We have a very sucessful Land Rover and Jeep sales, with workshop as well, we rarely have comebacks and have never had a comeback we couldn't satisfy and have a wealth of knowledge on Disco's, RR classics and P-38's and obviously Jeeps Classic and Grand but I realy feel this site isn't for me/us....I prefer to judge people on how you find not on how you think.

cheers, thanks and goodbye,

take care guys
 
iconic said:
Ok, lets bite it's what you guys clearly want...big glad you are surely talking out of your backside zero understanding of how car sales business works, do it yourself, it's easy just as you say, but no I suspect you won't as you are the sort of messor we normally tell to "leave the site many thanks though"...


We have a very sucessful Land Rover and Jeep sales, with workshop as well, we rarely have comebacks and have never had a comeback we couldn't satisfy and have a wealth of knowledge on Disco's, RR classics and P-38's and obviously Jeeps Classic and Grand but I realy feel this site isn't for me/us....I prefer to judge people on how you find not on how you think.

cheers, thanks and goodbye,

take care guys
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I'd like the chance to respond to your comments, iconic. First of all, I am not a "messor", as I understand the term, a person who looks, talks and does not buy.

1. To support that statement I would say that I have in the last 5 yrs bought 2 new and 2 second-hand cars, so selling opportunities for someone.

2. You assume that I have no experience in selling used vehicles - you would be wrong, entirely wrong. I made a good living selling cars for 10yrs.
I know eactly how the business works!;)

I was not aggressive with you or slanted you or your professionalism in any way - all I said was that you make your living buying and selling cars.

However, you do yourself no favours at all by getting arsey with people who have a different view to yours, on an open forum.

You have your beliefs and others have theirs.

If you feel these comments are unwarranted then just say so, there is no need to rubbish others, especially before you get to know them - you might just be wrong in your assessments.
 
iconic said:
It's funny how a lot of the posts here are from guys buying cars from private punters and then saying..."my gearbox crunches", "my car overheats", "my cars billows out blue smoke" blah blah blah...but you guys then say that a dealer is only out to screw you, if I sell I bad car we have laws to protect you, if you go private then buyer beware, how many threads here say "best sell that car on" so that's OK then for one private guy to screw another private guy[/qoute]

I think it is fair to say that nobody is out to screw the small garages. As a person in the motor trade who regularly deals with the small garages, I find that some small garages DO often NOT ALWAYS but OFTEN rip off the unsuspecting buyers. If you buy a car privately for half the price then you have plenty of money to chuck at it afterwards if things do go belly up. Alternativly you can take out an idependent warranty that is 9 times out of 10 BETTER than the ones offered by garages for a couple of hundred quid.

iconic said:
We have a very sucessful Land Rover and Jeep sales, with workshop as well, we rarely have comebacks and have never had a comeback we couldn't satisfy and have a wealth of knowledge on Disco's, RR classics and P-38's and obviously Jeeps Classic and Grand but I realy feel this site isn't for me/us....I prefer to judge people on how you find not on how you think.

cheers, thanks and goodbye,

take care guys
Click to expand...

I thought buying a car from you meant is wasn't gonna go wrong? I think that is called contradicting yourself.:confused: :rolleyes:
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SimonKeyes said:
Dare not comment on tax:p

Found this one very local to me but priced high and no tow bar so probably a no go but will view to give me an idea of a decent model - looks in good nick.

Discovery TD5

Pics will only display in Internet Explorer. What are the key things to look out for when viewing a Disco i.e. door hinges, seals, smoke from cold start etc? Oh and if it is a Y plate is this pre the tax on emissions?
Click to expand...


Simon, things I noticed from the photo's and description:

1) No Aircon, it will be like sitting in a goldfish bowl in summer
2) Rusty load securing ring o/s front, the roof probably leaks.
3) Rear tailgate hinges look rusty.
4) Looks like some wiring loose under the drivers seat.
5) Radio doesn't look genuine, check the radio controls on the steering do work.

You'll have to check the registration date for the tax class.

TD5 engine can be a pain in the arse, I know, I've got one. Open the battery cover and you'll see the engine ECU, if there's any oil in there the injector harness is leaking.
Check the coolant and oil levels, these did suffer with head gasket failures on earlier models due to plastic locating dowl's holding the head still.
As a 7 seater, it will have air suspension. Get in, start it up, and with the doors closed press the button. It should now raise up. It should also be quiet, not sound like a generator running under the car.
Check the central locking all works, the motor/lock assemby is all in one and cannot be repaired.
Make sure the ABS lights are off, this is another known problem area.
Check the clutch is OK, if you feel like you need both feet to push it down, walk away.

Hope this is of some help.

Rob
 
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