Disco 2 Battery terminals - shims or new terminals

Intestinalworm · Jan 10, 2018

Well, I overhauled the starter solenoid (even replaced 15mm nut as well as both 13mm nuts!) - not too bad a job - main problem was not having much room to move underneath the Disco on axle stands (pot belly doesn't help)! Anyway, bit of reading and scouring the forums at the start always pays dividends - so happy with how it all went using the X8R starter solenoid kit. All good now? No!

Here's what happened:

I also replaced the battery at the same time as I fixed the starter solenoid - the old one was cactus (8 years old!). So, overhauled starter solenoid with a brand new battery to boot - all should be good eh? Key in ignition - started hard and strong! Yeah! Went for a drive did I.

Got to the bottom of the road and suddenly everything went off and engine stopped! Car wouldn't re-start - dead as a Dodo!

Checked the new battery - to my surprise the terminals (both pos and neg) were so loose I just lifted them off - intermittent and poor contact at best even though they had been tightened to their limit (obviously I didn't check very well! I suspect the new battery has posts that are of a lesser diameter than the previous ones on the old battery. Anyway, moved terminals around and was able to get back home!

Now, what to do? Guess I can use shims as a temporary measure (aluminium foil? lead or zinc alloy shims? screw/nail?). Prefer a more permanent, neat solution though. I can buy a Universal style terminal for the neg cable from any auto store, but because the pos terminal on the 2003 D2 (Td5) has two cables (one of the two pos cables serves the starter motor exclusively I believe?) I don't know what to do - I did see this battery cable repair kit for the pos terminal:

http://www.motorcarsltd.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

Only problem is that the freight to Australia from the USA is $50.

Does anyone have any solutions/ideas or thoughts on what the best course of action is?

Kind Regards, Paul.

Iancorky · Jan 10, 2018

One fix used in the past that works, is to prise the two sides apart where there is a small gap in the clamp, then retighten

Intestinalworm · Jan 10, 2018

Iancorky said:
One fix used in the past that works, is to prise the two sides apart where there is a small gap in the clamp, then retighten

I'll give that a try then - thinking it might just close up the same way; assuming then the clamps get distorted with over-tightening. Posts on new battery are obviously fine though I can't help thinking they might have a smaller diameter?

Iancorky · Jan 10, 2018

You'll be amazed, it works, give the inside of the clamp a little rub with sand/emery paper

Gazbo · Jan 10, 2018

Intestinalworm said:
I'll give that a try then - thinking it might just close up the same way; assuming then the clamps get distorted with over-tightening. Posts on new battery are obviously fine though I can't help thinking they might have a smaller diameter?

.2mm (8 thou) thick copper or brass shim would work fine, cut strips wide enough for the height of the battery posts, wrap them on and trim lengths, open terminal clamps by loosening bolts and prying them open slightly, push them over posts/shims, tighten clamp bolts.

brian47 · Jan 10, 2018

Brass or copper shims, as @Gazbo has suggested should work but in the long run you probably do need to replace the clamps.
It sounds to me like the material the clamps are made of has stretched due to the action of being tightened around the battery terminal post. As time goes by, the stretching is only going to get worse, possibly leading to a total failure somewhere down the line.

dieseldog69 · Jan 10, 2018

Battery terminal clamps are cheap as chips and fitted in minutes.

KISSMYAURA · Jan 10, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Battery terminal clamps are cheap as chips and fitted in minutes.

=1 wot he said.

Not worth a bodge, will create resistance = corrosion !

Gazbo · Jan 10, 2018

dieseldog69 said:
Battery terminal clamps are cheap as chips and fitted in minutes.

And these days are made of absolute crap metal, if the originals are brass, I'd be staying witn them , bodge or no bodge.
I've seen some of the "cheap as chips" ones snap clean in half and terminate connections at most inappropriate times.
Only worth replacing with the proper brass ends sweated onto the cable or complete new cables and sometimes that's not cheap.

dieseldog69 · Jan 10, 2018

Gazbo said:
And these days are made of absolute crap metal, if the originals are brass, I'd be staying witn them , bodge or no bodge.
I've seen some of the "cheap as chips" ones snap clean in half and terminate connections at most inappropriate times.
Only worth replacing with the proper brass ends sweated onto the cable or complete new cables and sometimes that's not cheap.

12V 3Way Positive Negative Battery Terminals Connectors Clamps Car Van Motorhome | eBay

I have those, very good quality, smothered in vaseline will most likely outlive the vehicle, gives extra terminals for aux circuits.

I've watched hamfisted apprentices bend and stretch brand new genuine CAT, Volvo and Hitachi terminal clamps to the point where clamp end meet, absolutely anything is possible given enough brute force and ignorance, in college they gave a figure of 15lb/ft on a Massey 135, not much is it? But there really isn't any reason to go gorilla tight, it only has to make a sound electrical connection and that can easily be achieved without trying to wind the bolts up to 100lb/ft.

KISSMYAURA · Jan 10, 2018

Will get you out of trouble until you sort it properly, they are made of lead, cost a few pence................ simples init.

Sounds like you bought a Jap spec battery....

These are for converting jap spec to Row ( rest of world)

Kev12 · Jan 10, 2018

Don't be tempted to buy cheap terminals, I have done a few times for old tractors and they soon crack in half.
If the old ones look OK I would run a hacksaw blade through the join so they can clamp tighter

Edit: Cheap clamps also use 2 screws to clamp the wire in, these have the worst, weakest threads imaginable

Intestinalworm · Jan 11, 2018

KISSMYAURA said:
Will get you out of trouble until you sort it properly, they are made of lead, cost a few pence................ simples init.

Sounds like you bought a Jap spec battery....

Battery is top of the range model in the Supercharge brand and they sell well in Oz - surpasses CCA and Ah requirement. Supercharge, as well as Exide and Marshall batteries are all owned by RAMCAR now - a very large Filipino conglomerate. Century Batteries (part of GS Yuasa Corporation) still make some batteries in their Queensland factory, but most batteries available over here in Australia are either made in the Philippines, South Korea or elsewhere in SE Asia; one of the largest battery sellers here are the motoring associations (RACV and NRMA) and I was told they source their batteries from a large South Korean manufacturer.

Will use DIY shims (zinc alloy) for now and have a good look at the terminals to see if they can be reshaped a little. Did like the look of this though (Land Rover Battery Cable Repair Kit), at least for the positive terminal:

http://www.motorcarsltd.com/ysb108490.kit.html

brian47 · Jan 11, 2018

That kit is a nice idea but it suffers from the same problem as already mentioned above by @Kev12, that is a screw compression connection.
At the currents expected at this area of the vehicle's power system I would much prefer to use a properly crimped connector.

Intestinalworm · Jan 11, 2018

brian47 said:
That kit is a nice idea but it suffers from the same problem as already mentioned above by @Kev12, that is a screw compression connection.
At the currents expected at this area of the vehicle's power system I would much prefer to use a properly crimped connector.

Guessing it's the shims for now, then try and re-shape the current (original) terminals; if all fails then I'd be best to go to an auto electrician who can attach two new properly crimped connections?

KISSMYAURA · Jan 11, 2018

Intestinalworm said:
Well, I overhauled the starter solenoid (even replaced 15mm nut as well as both 13mm nuts!) - not too bad a job - main problem was not having much room to move underneath the Disco on axle stands (pot belly doesn't help)! Anyway, bit of reading and scouring the forums at the start always pays dividends - so happy with how it all went using the X8R starter solenoid kit. All good now? No! Here's what happened:

I also replaced the battery at the same time as I fixed the starter solenoid - the old one was cactus (8 years old!). So, overhauled starter solenoid with a brand new battery to boot - all should be good eh? Key in ignition - started hard and strong! Yeah! Went for a drive did I. Got to the bottom of the road and suddenly everything went off and engine stopped! Car wouldn't re-start - dead as a Dodo! Checked the new battery - to my surprise the terminals (both pos and neg) were so loose I just lifted them off - intermittent and poor contact at best even though they had been tightened to their limit (obviously I didn't check very well! I suspect the new battery has posts that are of a lesser diameter than the previous ones on the old battery. Anyway, moved terminals around and was able to get back home!

Now, what to do? Guess I can use shims as a temporary measure (aluminium foil? lead or zinc alloy shims? screw/nail?). Prefer a more permanent, neat solution though. I can buy a Universal style terminal for the neg cable from any auto store, but because the pos terminal on the 2003 D2 (Td5) has two cables (one of the two pos cables serves the starter motor exclusively I believe?) I don't know what to do - I did see this battery cable repair kit for the pos terminal:

http://www.motorcarsltd.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

Only problem is that the freight to Australia from the USA is $50.

Does anyone have any solutions/ideas or thoughts on what the best course of action is?

Kind Regards, Paul.

Intestinalworm said:
Guessing it's the shims for now, then try and re-shape the current (original) terminals; if all fails then I'd be best to go to an auto electrician who can attach two new properly crimped connections?

I would go to an auto electrician, will only cost a couple of aussie d for them to crimp on the right connectors, or buy yourself a crimper.

Option two is replace the wire the other end only has another eye on it and they are not that expensive etc.

KISSMYAURA · Jan 11, 2018

Intestinalworm said:
Battery is top of the range model in the Supercharge brand and they sell well in Oz - surpasses CCA and Ah requirement. Supercharge, as well as Exide and Marshall batteries are all owned by RAMCAR now - a very large Filipino conglomerate. Century Batteries (part of GS Yuasa Corporation) still make some batteries in their Queensland factory, but most batteries available over here in Australia are either made in the Philippines, South Korea or elsewhere in SE Asia; one of the largest battery sellers here are the motoring associations (RACV and NRMA) and I was told they source their batteries from a large South Korean manufacturer.

Will use DIY shims (zinc alloy) for now and have a good look at the terminals to see if they can be reshaped a little. Did like the look of this though (Land Rover Battery Cable Repair Kit), at least for the positive terminal:

http://www.motorcarsltd.com/ysb108490.kit.html

Jap spec just means smaller diameter battery terminals that ROW (rest of world), see my pic above of the converter shims to overcome exactly your problem.

Intestinalworm · Jan 11, 2018

Kev12 said:
Don't be tempted to buy cheap terminals, I have done a few times for old tractors and they soon crack in half.
If the old ones look OK I would run a hacksaw blade through the join so they can clamp tighter

Edit: Cheap clamps also use 2 screws to clamp the wire in, these have the worst, weakest threads imaginable

Just wondering what you mean by the join (run a hacksaw blade through it)? Do you mean the open end of the clamp?

KISSMYAURA · Jan 11, 2018

Are you in Queensland by any chance?

KISSMYAURA · Jan 11, 2018

they are not expensive, although I recommend the grip handle racheting ones around £25 A dollars.
the bash or vice press ones are around 8 dollars etc

Disco 2 Battery terminals - shims or new terminals

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