Another 90 Rebuild

Got some side steps mid week. Bought some that bolt to both outriggers, rather than sill rail, as I thought they would be stronger.
As always, what should have been a 15 minute a side job has turned out to be hours of work.
Started with the drivers side. The holes in the bracket that bolts to the centre outrigger didn't line up with the hole in the outrigger bracket. Also, the fuel tank mounting was in the way. So I had no choice but to get the angle grinder out and cut a section out of the new side step. Then I had to drill an 8mm hole through the outrigger bracket. Going against my 'no drilling the galv chassis' policy

You can see the hole I've drilled with the dinitrol around it and the original hole above it. You can see the fuel tank mount that wasin the way too. I wonder if a Marsland chassis would have been ok? Probably!

Got it bolted on and the out sill put back. It's not parallel to the sill, but you can't really tell. I had no room for adjustment anyway!

I was taking the outer sill off the other side when I remembered the fact that the centre outrigger was 12mm out of place
Discovered there were no holes in the side of the outrigger bracket and so it didn't matter about the holes lining up.
You can see the gap between the outrigger and the black sidestep bracket here.

There's a hole on the inside of the outrigger, which is no good to me. Looks like RC welded a drivers side bracket to both tubular outriggers.
Here's a picture looking through the outrigger at the gap.

The gap is approximately 18mm! There's the 12mm from the outrigger being welded to far towards the rear of the vehicle and 6mm because the upstand bracket on the step is not perpendicular to the step
I've found some 50mm X 50mm square galvanised washers on ebay and bought a pack of 10 to use as packing pieces. It's the best I can do and should be reasonably secure and robust. Annoying though.
The error(s) in the chassis have had quite a few knock on effects. I would want to measure up a Richards Chassis before using another one. Would probably apply the same to a Marsland to be honest!

Do you reckon these chassis are welded together with the various parts held in a jig or just measured, marked on the chassis and then hand held and welded on. Seems like the later with all the errors?

mick the builder said:

Do you reckon these chassis are welded together with the various parts held in a jig or just measured, marked on the chassis and then hand held and welded on. Seems like the later with all the errors?

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You'd think they would be jigged, but who knows. Don't know how they would mark out the hole in the chassis rail for the tubular outrigger to go in. If the holes drilled in the wrong place, then the outrigger is going to be welded in the wrong place. The brackets on the end of the tubes must be slid on then welded in place. You could always slide the wrong one on I suppose. No jig is going to help that human error.
Who knows. I've read a fair few posts describing faults on them.

Al2O3 said:

You'd think they would be jigged, but who knows. Don't know how they would mark out the hole in the chassis rail for the tubular outrigger to go in. If the holes drilled in the wrong place, then the outrigger is going to be welded in the wrong place. The brackets on the end of the tubes must be slid on then welded in place. You could always slide the wrong one on I suppose. No jig is going to help that human error.
Who knows. I've read a fair few posts describing faults on them.

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So do you think marshlands are any better and why did you go for richards?

I went for a Richards because my local LR specialist recommended them. It's a family business and they have spent decades rebuilding defenders and building custom vehicles. I bought it through them too, so don't know if their recommendation was swayed by the deals they get. (If any)
From what I've read Marsland chassis are Land Rover ones which they hot dip galvanise, so not a copy.
The Richards Chassis are made from thicker gauge steel and some prefer them for that.

GATSO has had a fair bit of experience with different chassis.

GATSO said:

ive done series chassis builds onto Richards chassis (5) so far ,had alignment and missing hole issues on them all bar 1 ,,,,,and done defender rebuilds onto Richards chassis ,and also had alignment issues ,,,also done several defender 90 and 110 rebuilds onto Marslands chassis with wait for it ...........................................not a single problem !!!!! but in Richards chassis defence ,some probs where solved buy them (cash) and 1 chassis i did use had no faults ,,,!!!!!!!! so to cap it all off Richards 1 ,Marslands 10+

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Knowing what I now know, I would check a few key measurements and features on delivery of any chassis.

Al2O3 said:

I went for a Richards because my local LR specialist recommended them. It's a family business and they have spent decades rebuilding defenders and building custom vehicles. I bought it through them too, so don't know if their recommendation was swayed by the deals they get. (If any)
From what I've read Marsland chassis are Land Rover ones which they hot dip galvanise, so not a copy.
The Richards Chassis are made from thicker gauge steel and some prefer them for that.

GATSO has had a fair bit of experience with different chassis.


Knowing what I now know, I would check a few key measurements and features on delivery of any chassis.

Click to expand...

It was actually during your build when you mentioned something small like the holes not being on the chassis for the brake pipe clips that made go for a brand new genuine LR chassis galved, as I was looking at getting a Richards or Marsland chassis. But you have overcome your problems brilliantly so you should feel a sense of smugness that you've not been beat. Although your Guinness consumption may have gone up

defenderdog said:

It was actually during your build when you mentioned something small like the holes not being on the chassis for the brake pipe clips that made go for a brand new genuine LR chassis galved, as I was looking at getting a Richards or Marsland chassis. But you have overcome your problems brilliantly so you should feel a sense of smugness that you've not been beat. Although your Guinness consumption may have gone up

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Ha, ha, yes Guinness consumption does spike it times of trouble
To be fair the lack of holes for the brake pipe clips was a pain that was quite easily worked around. I'm presuming the Marsland chassis have them as they are supposed to be LR chassis originally. I don't know. It was the outrigger being in the wrong place that really made my mind up about checking what you get. A rebuild is such a big job that it's well worth checking any chassis you get. Big lesson learned there for me!

Having got the side steps fitted yesterday. (30 min job turned in to hours) I turned my attention to the aftermarket central locking.
I investigated the 10AS box and the green connector.

As per the pin diagram pins 2 and 3 were free. But, you obviously need special pins to connect the wires to which will connect in to the 10AS box. I don't have any of these and so I abandoned the idea of connecting the new CDL to LR fob for the time being.
I made some P clips out of thin aluminium sheet.

And glued them to the doors to act as hangers for the conduit.

I tested the spare spade terminal on the ignition barrel and, just as Saint.V8 said, it was permanently live. I soldered a spade connector on to the live feed wire of the CDL. Inside the binnacle are some machine screws (about M5) which bolt it to the metal frame of the dash. I tested it with the digital multi meter and it showed a good earth. I bared about an inch of the earth cable and carefully formed a circle with the copper. I ran solder around it to form a solid loop. Loosened one of the machine screws and clamped the earth cable there.
I rand the CDL cables through the flexi conduit. You have little choice with the drivers door as to where it runs. I brought it out of the side of the dash and down beside the door seal, clamping it in place with the check strap cover.

The conduit then ran along the inner door to the CDL connections.

For the passenger door I was contemplating taking the dash out Having a feel about I realised that here is a decent sized lip under the front edge of the dash tray.
I made some clips, to hold the conduit in place, by wrapping more ali strip around a 10mm drill.

I then held it in place on the dash and folded the remaining section by hand as the ali is quite soft.

This tucked the conduit away out of sight. There's a hole at the far side of the dash where the steering column goes in that is big enough for the end of the conduit to slot in behind the binnacle.

Once the dash edge trim goes on and the end panel of the dash the conduit and clips are invisible.

I just lay the Hawk receiver behind the clocks. Wrapped up the other two door cables in to a neat bundle and put a cable tie around them and lay them in there too. That was it. Started raining, so I didn't get the door cards on
But gave it a test, so here is the usual Youtube video

Had a bit of a panic when I tried to move the Landy. It was immobilised and the fob was no longer working! Must have been caused by me removing the green connector from the 10AS box.
Had many attempts to disable the immobiliser using the code and the ignition key to position II and the door switch, as described in the owners handbook. No joy.
Searched LZ to find much talk about programming fobs with a nanocom. Was wondering how to get the immobilised Landy to the LR Indy 12 miles away, when I found a post by ratty back in 2012. Take fob battery out, press both buttons to drain residual charge, press lock button 5 times. Worked a treat. Good job, my Mondeo was on the bottom of the drive and I reckon the Landy would take some pushing up the drive! Not a massive angle, but enough to make it difficult. That fob resync thing is handy!

The 50mm square galv washers arrived mid week. These were for the new side steps and so I got the last part of the bracket bolted down to the out of place outrigger.

It's a canny spacer! Does the job though and the steps feel firm enough. It's out of sight under the wheel arch too.
Investigating the slightly vague steering I got a son to turn the steering wheel while I lay underneath. I'm embarrassed to say, but have to confess, I hadn't fully tightened the four bolts on the power steering box. Not surprisingly, it's made a big difference to how positive the steering feels!
Was hoping to get the door cards fitted today, but discovered I've bought the wrong sized door clips. I didn't realise there were two sizes. new smaller ones are on their way.
At least I got the weather plastic stuck in on both doors
Started fitting sound insulation to the front floors.
Gone for two layers behind pedals and one layer on the floor and up the first angle.

Decided the carpet and the LR rubber mat, o top of one layer of insulation, were enough for the floor.
I've got water weeping in through the weld on the bulkhead. The galvanisation process obviously didn't fill it. If I were to do this again I would push seem sealer in to any gap before getting it painted. It's coming in
I've bought a small bottle of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Filler. (I know it's immature but, I can't help smile when I say that) So, hopefully, that will sort it out.
I had to cover a few holes too. Not sure what they were for, but araldited some aluminium squares on top of them.


Used double sided carpet tape to stick the first layer to the bulkhead and then the second layer to the first.

The original carpet and then the rubber mat went on top.
Did the same with the passenger side.


Then the original carpet in.


Then the LR rubber mat. Kindly donated by my next door neighbour.


I then pop riveted the original sound insulation to the underside of the bonnet and took it for a test drive.
The difference was amazing! I was amazed by how much quieter it was. Almost like a civilised form of transport!

Took the old tow bar apart and set about it with the needle gun and the angle grinder.

It had about 2mm of scale on it
Do you reckon that'll be dressed enough for the acid bath to finish before getting galvanised?



.

where did you get the door weather strips from ??
cheers dave


At least I got the weather plastic stuck in on both doors

Al2O3 said:

I went for a Richards because my local LR specialist recommended them. It's a family business and they have spent decades rebuilding defenders and building custom vehicles. I bought it through them too, so don't know if their recommendation was swayed by the deals they get. (If any)
From what I've read Marsland chassis are Land Rover ones which they hot dip galvanise, so not a copy.
The Richards Chassis are made from thicker gauge steel and some prefer them for that.

GATSO has had a fair bit of experience with different chassis.


Knowing what I now know, I would check a few key measurements and features on delivery of any chassis.

Click to expand...

No big help but the Richards ones are welded in a jig, I went there when I had mine done and had a chance to look around, they then send the chasis away to be galvanized off site, the other observation is they are really busy at the moment seem to have chassis stacked everywhere.

dave_b said:

where did you get the door weather strips from ??
cheers dave


At least I got the weather plastic stuck in on both doors

Click to expand...

Do you mean the plastic sheet, Dave? It's thick gauge plastic sheet from the garden centre! I just got a few metres off a big roll.

raywin said:

No big help but the Richards ones are welded in a jig, I went there when I had mine done and had a chance to look around, they then send the chasis away to be galvanized off site, the other observation is they are really busy at the moment seem to have chassis stacked everywhere.

Click to expand...

I thought they were made in a jig, so it makes you wonder how my outrigger is half an inch out?

cheers al203

Only job to do today on the Landy was fit the passenger door card. New white door inserts and black clips for the door card arrived mid week.
Spent most of the day fitting new discs and pads to the Mondeo, so not a lot of time left.
During the week I applied Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure to the leaking bulkhead seam in the drivers footwell. It's poured with rain at times since and no more water is leaking in! Can't believe it Thumbs up for the crack cure.
Thought right, I'll get the sound proof layer, carpet and LR rubber mat out of the back and put them back in the footwell. Then I got my eye on a drip of liquid towards the other side of the footwell. Bloody hell ! Not more water Dabbed a finger tip in it and it felt a bit more viscous than water A closer look revealed another drip on the back of the clutch pedal. Master cylinder seals on the way out To be honest I can't complain. I've not done anything to it in the eleven years I've had it. Changed the slave cylinder about a year before the rebuild.
Time to search LZ and see what the consensus of opinion is on new seals or new cylinder and best way to get it out.

I've got a side light and indicator that are taking in water. Following the crack cure success, I've treated them both tonight.
You can see the white line of Crack Cure liquid around where the lens meets the back piece.

Al2O3 said:

Only job to do today on the Landy was fit the passenger door card. New white door inserts and black clips for the door card arrived mid week.
Spent most of the day fitting new discs and pads to the Mondeo, so not a lot of time left.
During the week I applied Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure to the leaking bulkhead seam in the drivers footwell. It's poured with rain at times since and no more water is leaking in! Can't believe it Thumbs up for the crack cure.
Thought right, I'll get the sound proof layer, carpet and LR rubber mat out of the back and put them back in the footwell. Then I got my eye on a drip of liquid towards the other side of the footwell. Bloody hell ! Not more water Dabbed a finger tip in it and it felt a bit more viscous than water A closer look revealed another drip on the back of the clutch pedal. Master cylinder seals on the way out To be honest I can't complain. I've not done anything to it in the eleven years I've had it. Changed the slave cylinder about a year before the rebuild.
Time to search LZ and see what the consensus of opinion is on new seals or new cylinder and best way to get it out.

I've got a side light and indicator that are taking in water. Following the crack cure success, I've treated them both tonight.
You can see the white line of Crack Cure liquid around where the lens meets the back piece.

Click to expand...

Get some led units. They look exactly the same only LED and there sealed. I've been through the lake at billing with them and not a drop leaked in.

The landy has been sat on the drive for the last few days as the master cylinder started weeping. It's been raining a bit, but haven't noticed if the light lenses are water tight after the crack cure treatment.
The new master cylinder arrived today and I got it fitted tonight. Didn't get it bled though.
Got the rear step and tow bar assembly back from the shot blasters today.

I'll drop the bits of at the steel works in the morning and I should get them back from the galvanisers next Wednesday. That'll give me time to get the bolts.
Broke the bonnet switch getting the clutch pedal box out and they're not cheap! I've taken it off to see if I can fix it.

Got the replacement clutch master cylinder fitted mid week after work. Bought a TRW oem one, so hopefully it last a long time.
This meant it was ready in time for me to help a friend out by marshalling a fell running event today. Spent the day up in the Cheviot Hills. Had to travel about 3 miles up some steep, rough track to get to the check point I was looking after. A nice first off road test.

Got the tow bar assembly and step back from the galvanisers.

The two new proper tow ball bolts arrived as you can see.
Bolted the step on.

It rocked slightly because there was a gap between the part of the step that presses on the under side of the cross-member. It looked like it would eventually cut in to the galv, so I put two galved square washers in to take up the gap and protect the chassis.

It's rock solid now. The step clamps the square washer in place, but I put some araldite on them to be safe.
Waiting for the rest of the 8.8 high tensile bolts to arrive for the tow bar assembly.

Im going through the same process with my 90 and i can only say how awesome it has been to read this thread. Top work and how brilliant your 200tdi looks ! Its nice to know i'm not the only person mad enough to do such a project ! If its any consolation the outriggers on my Richards chassis was exactly the same as yours, roughly about 10mm offset that i had to make spacers to remedy.
Keep up the great work, truly inspiring.

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. Strange coincidence with the Richard's chassis. My passenger side outrigger was the one that was out. Which was yours?
Mine's a 300 TDI, by the way. And there's quite a number of members on here who are mad enough to do the same thing.
Some have done several