1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

Alternative to the fluid coupling (VCU)

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by likimstip, Jun 12, 2016.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Posts:
    3,353
    Likes Received:
    1,085
    Location:
    Near MK
    I wonder if you'd given any thought of how a Range Rover Classic, p38a or early L322 work.... I think a viscous unit in a FL more akin to these could be a better solution than something selectable.
     
  2. helijohn

    helijohn Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Posts:
    195
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    UK
    But if it meant you could disengage the rear wheels surely it would reduce wear to the VCU. Also would it not mean that by running in 2 wheel there would be a slight saving on petrol. I'd need convincing that, apart from the cost, it would not be a great solution.
     
  3. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    10,470
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    It would, because the VCU would be on a shelf in the garage!
    The OP, or someone, said that the VCU does not kick in quick enough when maneuvering the caravan - so that's a convincing argument... for maneuvering caravans in a straight line. I don't think I've seen anything else in the 5 pages though.
     
  4. wammers

    wammers STILL BREATHING. Donater

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Posts:
    58,014
    Likes Received:
    11,485
    Location:
    Preston Lancs.
    VCU is as good as it gets on Freelander as long as it is treated as a lifed item.
     
    monkfish24 likes this.
  5. Joe_H

    Joe_H Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    1,486
    Likes Received:
    252
    Location:
    Brit in Northern Portugal
    I agree that this is mostly the case. It is simply a 'pie in the sky' - ill thought out and totally ridiculous 'solution' to a problem that simply does not exist.
    The OP and designer obviously (to me at least) - had A. little if any knowledge of how a VCU works, and B. Had a non correctly functioning VCU . and C. was totally wasting his time and effort .
    D. it WILL damage or destroy your drive train.
    A well meaning (supposedly) OP with a total lack of understanding along with a knackered vcu.
    The VCU will 'kick in'- a few revs possibly but certainly NOT a quarter or half a turn - ) - but WILL certainly 'kick in' and do the goodies.
    The VCU will definitely apply increased torque at any time there is slippage 'tween front and rear, however the torque is progressive until hump mode is achieved - this may well take many turns of the front drive but certainly not a full slippage.

    All in all - bottom line - waste of engineering skills and time

    Nice idea - poorly thought out.:(
     
  6. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Posts:
    37,444
    Likes Received:
    17,258
    Interesting fred. I like the idea of the tegralok. It provides the driver the choice of 2wd or 4wd. If the driver doesn't need the auto sensing and activation of the vcu to provide 4wd then the tegralok is a solution. If yer think about it most peeps know if they want 4wd when they go oft road, drive across a field or down a muddy track, as opposed to only needing 2wd on tarmac roads. The option of selecting between the 2 is ok if yer want to do it yerself. It won't stop wheel spin when pulling away on wet roads when in 2wd, like the vcu auto sensing solution does (and connects drive to the rear momentarily) but that's life*. Well done.

    *The wet road wheel spin option was fitted as standard on the higher power v6 model.
     
  7. likimstip

    likimstip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Posts:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hi all,
    I'm getting quite a lot of emails from folk wanting to either buy a Tegralok (I'm not thinking to manufacture them), or plans and photos for them to build their own. The geographical spread of correspondents is interesting. Modest interest from UK owners, but strong interest from people in Italy, Germany, New Zealand and Ghana to list the main ones. No idea why that should be, but it is a bit intriguing.
    I've decided to take a raft of photos of the thing in bits and assembled, make some drawings of the constructed items, provide the machining data, and list the suppliers of the bought-in parts that I found - there will be other suppliers of course, and maybe much cheaper. A prototype (leap in the dark!) is always expensive because you are distracted from doing strong market research by having to solve all the engineering problems along the way.
    My Tegralok is coming up to 9000 miles now. The bits that I didn't paint are changing colour to that familiar brown (I'm shocked!) but otherwise it hasn't changed.
    In a few days the info pack should be ready, if I can figure out how to make the file size small enough. My email is buried somewhere in the YouTube comments for anybody that wants to ignore the negative comments on this forum and have a go for themselves.
    Best regards,
    Likim Stip
     
    Rich in Vancouver and Hippo like this.
  8. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Posts:
    37,444
    Likes Received:
    17,258
    You can upload files to give out on the web using sites like www.dropbox.com
    There's a free option.
     
  9. likimstip

    likimstip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Posts:
    23
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks Hippo, I will take a look at that. Beer first, though!
     
  10. tsm64

    tsm64 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Méthamis - Provence
    Totally cool, Tegralok! Using my FL 1 td4 for hunting purpose in the montains. Soil is mainly rocks and sometimes mud. 4 wd is not required most the time; front WD would be sufficient. Then there a matter of economics: how much for the device and its installation? Plus some good sense: please rotate the grease zerks 90 degrees to locate them on a side wall. The current way exposes them to be ripped off by the first higher obstacle on the trail. Hope to see it soon on the market.
     
  11. Jayridium

    Jayridium Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    584
    Likes Received:
    156
    Location:
    Pedronapper (Peterhead)
    Ten out of Ten for actually doing it, it is just a pity that the front and rear diffs are of a different ratio that means the dog clutch used won't sufficiently protect the rest of the transmission from winding itself up, thus meaning you cannot use it on wintry roads where the hippo excels. As said elsewhere adding a gearbox to correct the ratio differences, or an LSD or a wet clutch or ironically enough a viscous, and this would be a great device that I would buy.
     
  12. Flying Scotsman!

    Flying Scotsman! Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2017
    Posts:
    136
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    sunderland
    I've been thinking.. which is always risky.
    But for the Tegralok to be beneficial (and ignoring financial benefits / defecits) we have to establish the following:-
    1. Is the existing 4wd so inadequate that it cannot do it's job adequatley and efficiently off road?
    2. Is there a substantial benefit to running the car in 2wd for extended periods when 4wd is not required?
    3. When off road is there a benefit to being able to switch between the two?

    My take...

    1. No...
    Evidence (not my own) suggest that the existing system is more than capable. Indeed many owners regularly do some serious off roading on the existing set up without problems. So being able to 'lock' the font to rear seems unneccesary. With little benefit to be had.

    2. This seems to be a subject of great debate. Some say yes, some say no. The fuel consumption benefits seem to be negligible if any. So that leaves wear and tear. Is there any savings to be had in that area? Personally I doubt it.

    3. I have no experience of serious off road so can't comment. Although what little trainng and experience I have suggests no.

    So.....
    Yes the Tegralok is a BRILLIANT piece of engineering. I love it!
    But..is it a solution looking for a problem? Probably...
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    Alibro and Nodge68 like this.
  13. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    4,816
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    I agree with this^^^^.

    I actually think the FL1 VCU gives slightly improved off road traction, simply because there is an amount of "slip" in the system. When using a locked transfer box 4X4 off road. The tyres are forced to skip and break traction, particularly when turning corners, due to wind up. The VCU doesn't create wind up, so no skipping takes place and traction is maintained.

    So cleaver as this system is. It tries to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist, potentially harming the FL1's off road ability in the process
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    Flying Scotsman! and dfossil like this.
  14. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    15,798
    Likes Received:
    10,470
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    I've run my Freelander in 4WD for 3 years and 2WD for 4 years.

    In 3 years of 4WD I've blown the transmission once resulting in a very expensive bill and car off the road for an extended time. In 4 years of 2WD this hasn't happened. Knowing what I know now, it shouldn't happen again in 4WD - but definitely won't happen in 2WD.

    In 3 years of 4WD I never checked the tyre pressures or VCU condition, but obviously should have regularly. In 4 years of 2WD I have checked the tyre pressures and VCU condition once (VCU was like Tegralok in 4WD!)

    In 3 years of 4WD I would happily drive down the beach to not catch any fish. In 4 years of 2WD I have unhappily trudged down the beach to not catch any fish.

    In 3 years of 4WD the car was precise and sure footed in all road conditions. In 4 years of 2WD the car has been precise and sure footed in all road conditions.

    In 3 years of 4WD I had no Landie buddies local to go exploring the remote wilderness of the South Island, so never got stuck in hard to get to places. In 4 years of 2WD I now have lots of Landie buddies to go exploring with... and get stuck in hard to get to places :)

    Just some of my experiences.
     
    kernowsvenski likes this.
  15. Hippo

    Hippo Lord Hippo

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Posts:
    37,444
    Likes Received:
    17,258
    The benefit tegralok has it that it's proactive (select 4x4 before the event) and not reactive (need to spins wheels to activate) like the vcu. Also tegralok removes stress in the 4x4 transmission when open if yer vcu's not in good health. Electric diff's can be proactive (select 4x4 in advance if yer going oft road) or proactive (engage when wheels spin like the vcu). Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with the vcu setup in the FL1. I've watched it lock up and it's quicker than most peeps eggspect. Good enough to do the job needed when it's needed. I still find tekralok an interesting device and it's good to see someone has had a go to see what it's like and if it's possible. Anyone want to have a go at fitting tracks anorl?
     
  16. Leviathan

    Leviathan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Posts:
    288
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    Middlesbrough
    Stumbling across this thread a couple of years after it was posted. (Googled Tegralok having found the video on a terrifying fall through a youtube rabbit hole) Really just wanted to congratulate the designer on his home brew engineering, whilst the product seems to have been mostly an exercise in curiosity, I found it interesting and impressive. Thanks
     
  17. Alex1000

    Alex1000 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Posts:
    76
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I've just come across this via youtube.

    Is this commercially available, if so who from.

    My thoughts are if you vcu dies, it might be worth considering.

    If anyone has any details of where one could be purchased and/or an idea of cost I'd be interested to know.

    Fitting not a problem as I'd do it myself.

    Thanks

    Alex
     
  18. Alibro

    Alibro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Posts:
    5,343
    Likes Received:
    1,471
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I think the general consensus here was "What's the point"
    A VCU refurb is only a couple of hundred quid and DIY fix is under £30.
     
  19. Alex1000

    Alex1000 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2019
    Posts:
    76
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    To me, ability to select 2 or 4 wheel drive when you want it.

    The vcu diy fix, could you elaboeate or point me in right direction.

    My frrelander doesnt have this issue yet, but im looking at what if plan for when it need replaced.

    Im in the mind to pick up a 3 door thats vcu's knackered. And mess around with it techlok or such like, as a bit off fun.

    But the ratio difference front to rear my only drawback.
     
  20. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    21,440
    Likes Received:
    4,816
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Why go backwards with manual selection of 4WD, when the VCU does it automatically and instantly when needed.
     
    DevonGuy and The Mad Hat Man like this.
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >