abs brakes locking up in mud

My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
the car started fish tailing.

The abs sensors looked ok aside from the mud. Any ideas on what cauased
this? Is it normal on ABS and muddy environment?
Thanks for the help,
Marc

Marc wrote:

> My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
> the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
> since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
> don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
> the car started fish tailing.
>
> The abs sensors looked ok aside from the mud. Any ideas on what cauased
> this? Is it normal on ABS and muddy environment?
> Thanks for the help,
> Marc
>

You're execting a bit too much! ABS is not intended to save you from
yourself in this sort of situation.

Back to basics and avoid braking on hills. There may have been a bit too
much speed, too.

If you are proceeding in a controlled manner and a wheel locks up you
can usually regain control by momentarily accelerating.

"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
> the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
> since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
> don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
> the car started fish tailing.
>
> The abs sensors looked ok aside from the mud. Any ideas on what cauased
> this? Is it normal on ABS and muddy environment?
> Thanks for the help,
> Marc
>

Wait till you try it on ice! ABS is famous for giving drivers a false
sense of security and then giving thema good kick first time it gets icy.
In very slippy conditions cadence braking will stop you quicker than the
abs

David
LLAMA 4x4
www.llama4x4.co.uk

"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Marc wrote:
>
>> My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
>> the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
>> since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
>> don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
>> the car started fish tailing.

snip

I don't think the ABS is active below 5mph and if all four wheels lock it'll
think your stopped anyway. Low box second and don't touch the clutch is my
advice.

Peter.

Thanks for the advice but I wasn't expecting ABS to help at all on that
hill, heck it was so slippery I don't think anything would've helped, I'm
worried ABS was getting in the way.

Anyway, after trying the brakes and realising I was going to be sliding all
the way down I hit the gas and powered straight down the hill with some
control rather than none. What was wierd was the brake pedal seemed to lock
up about halfway down its travel when I did tap it on the way down the hill
and it seemed to vibrate which scared the sh__ out of me as I knew I was
going to need them at the bottom. At the bottom where slippage was minimal,
all was well.

This is the first time for me with ABS off-road, just checking if I missed
something in my off-road driving technique readings.

Cheers



"David_LLAMA4x4" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
> > the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
> > since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
> > don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
> > the car started fish tailing.
> >
> > The abs sensors looked ok aside from the mud. Any ideas on what cauased
> > this? Is it normal on ABS and muddy environment?
> > Thanks for the help,
> > Marc
> >
>
> Wait till you try it on ice! ABS is famous for giving drivers a false
> sense of security and then giving thema good kick first time it gets icy.
> In very slippy conditions cadence braking will stop you quicker than the
> abs
>
> David
> LLAMA 4x4
> www.llama4x4.co.uk
>
>
>

Luneral wrote:

> Thanks for the advice but I wasn't expecting ABS to help at all on
> that hill, heck it was so slippery I don't think anything would've
> helped, I'm worried ABS was getting in the way.
>
> Anyway, after trying the brakes and realising I was going to be
> sliding all the way down I hit the gas and powered straight down the
> hill with some control rather than none. What was wierd was the brake
> pedal seemed to lock up about halfway down its travel when I did tap
> it on the way down the hill and it seemed to vibrate which scared the
> sh__ out of me as I knew I was going to need them at the bottom.

That is the ABS working - the pedal feels like it's 'buzzing'. Just
keep the pressure on (on the road).

> At
> the bottom where slippage was minimal, all was well.

Gloat gloat, yes indeed when it comes to it we are all equal in the face of
road conditions and there ain't nothing magical that will save you from the
hedge I ended up in on Christmas day. Slippery is slipperly and there are
factors that have more importance than brakes, at least I knew not to trust
mine.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes



"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Marc wrote:
>
>
> You're execting a bit too much! ABS is not intended to save you from
> yourself in this sort of situation.
>
> Back to basics and avoid braking on hills. There may have been a bit too
> much speed, too.
>
> If you are proceeding in a controlled manner and a wheel locks up you
> can usually regain control by momentarily accelerating.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Marc wrote:
>
> My 98 Disco brakes seemed to lock up while sliding down a muddy hill
> the other day. The pedal locked up when I tried applying the brakes and
> since it was a very slippery hill and I was already sliding fast I
> don't know if the wheels locked up but I feel they judging by the way
> the car started fish tailing.
>
> The abs sensors looked ok aside from the mud. Any ideas on what cauased
> this? Is it normal on ABS and muddy environment?
> Thanks for the help,
> Marc

Maybe, off-road you should disable the ABS.
Take the fuse out or make it switchable.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.


--

http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

Now I feel really dumb

On 2005-01-01, Erik-Jan Geniets <[email protected]> wrote:

> Maybe, off-road you should disable the ABS.

According to the manual for my old Audi 90 (which has an ABS on/off
button), ABS should be disabled on "loose" surfaces such as gravel or
grass, as the tyre builds up a small wedge of the loose material if it
is allowed to skid which helps in the braking. Then again they may
have been making excuses for the bad performance of an early ABS
system!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

Ian Hi,

You are almost right on the second presumption (they were making excuses)
The main reason AUDI was advising the disabling of ABS on "loose" surfaces
was the fact that the systems available at this time (back in 1994) were
three ways ones (one sensor for the each of the front wheels and one for the
pair of rear) which resulted in VERY poor performance on mixed road
conditions (such as gravel, rain or snow on only one side of the vehicle's
wheel). The processing speed of those systems was pretty low also (only a
few times per second of input from the sensors)

Later generations of ABS systems (first introduced in 1995 with the RS2)
were given a much faster processing speed (around 50 times per second if I
remember well) and a four sensors (one per wheel) so they were operating
much better. Nevertheless the ABS still was disengaging automaticaly with
the rear differential locked (because of the imminent characteristic of
locking diffs to lock both wheels when one is locking)
Later system accomodated for this also but just because the rear diff lock
was replaced by the ESP (Electronic Stability Program) which is similar in a
lot of things to the Land Rover developed ETC (Electronic Traction Control,
ie a brake operated sort of locking the diff by decreasing the speed of the
spinning wheen instead of locking the diff).

-----

BUT, it is still recognised that on fresh snow conditions, or when driving
on gravel, it is better NOT to have ABS since the build up of snow or gravel
actually assists on braking faster than with ABS. On the other hand ABS is
much better as it regards increasing the directional capabilities of the
vehicle even on those conditions.

Sorry if I got TOO technical about it. Here in Greece where we get lots of
gravel and dusty road most of land rover drivers tend to remove the ABS
fuse of fit a disabling switch.

Take care and Happy New Year
Pantelis




"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-01-01, Erik-Jan Geniets <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Maybe, off-road you should disable the ABS.
>
> According to the manual for my old Audi 90 (which has an ABS on/off
> button), ABS should be disabled on "loose" surfaces such as gravel or
> grass, as the tyre builds up a small wedge of the loose material if it
> is allowed to skid which helps in the braking. Then again they may
> have been making excuses for the bad performance of an early ABS
> system!
>
> --
> For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert