'96 *Engine disabled* Key/plip issue

Evening everyone!


My first post here and one that unfortunately is a plea for advice with the hope of picking the collective brains of all you seasoned RR pro's that can take my new purchase's issues easily in their stride!!? Well, I can hope. Just hoping it will all make sense and what I describe here helps to unravel things more.


I'm not totally green to DIY spannering and have cut my teeth on the big and small jobs among the niceties of the weird and wonderful range of Citroëns from the 70's to 00's and am familiar with forums for these models but this is all a new direction I now find myself on.


I've taken on a P38 4.6HSE AUTO on an N plate that was registered 28-05-1996. It's in excellent condition despite showing a hefty 250k miles and is on the original engine/box/air suspension and has been well looked after with a recent full renewal of all the airbags, front polybushes and fluid coupling dif, although it does need attention for a driveline shudder I hope to address beyond my primary problem = getting past the *engine disabled* immobiliser lockout.


The beast was a runner when I purchased it and in my fumblings of first ever Range Rover P38 ownership I've managed to hit head on the craziness of the engine disabled immobiliser lockout and battery drain problems. I believe I have the correct emergency key sequence 'handshake' and have until recently managed to unlock the system and run the engine to know it is the correct code but it seems to have hit a lockout brick wall now although I have the strong feeling I've managed to trip things up due to an unfortunate accident.


In squeezing in the tight space alongside the car and the underbonnet area to reconnect a charged battery in the dark I've managed to clumsily brush past the plip as it was (yes very foolishly) left in the door lock which resulted in splitting the key swivel from the plip body. Despite this unfortunate circumstance I have subsequently still managed to get the engine started but upon then losing the separated key blade I have had no success in restarting it despite attempts to rectify the problem.


I'm certain the lost blade is somewhere in the vicinity of the driver's seat or car parking area and despite a week of picking everything apart I have accepted defeat and used an ebay key cut from a photo service and true to their word, the new key arrived quickly and works the door lock and the ignition well. I was fortunate to take detailed photos as I was about to order a keycut/new plip before the distraction of Xmas!


My main problem now is the car won't start and consistently brings up *engine disabled* no matter what I attempt.


I need to understand whether:

A:
Is there a transponder chip in the swivel/shank of the original key blade from the plip? Is this the essential piece missing for me to unlock the starter?
B:
Does the (actually working) plip need to be in an exact orientation for the aerial collar around the ignition barrel to pick up and accept the key? How does this work as I've been unable to find any real description about it?
C:
Do I need to remove the BECM and send it to someone such as a LR specialist or another owner/enthusiast to unlock it and if so, does it simply plug straight in or do I need to initialise it using LR software. I'm guessing this really starts getting chunky/open ended on the finances and have seen quotes of £250-300 which isn't that helpful just recovering after the excesses of Xmas...


Specifics to mention:
I can summon a whole chorus on beeps from the dash upon turning the ignition on - is the sequence the BECM actually trying to tell me something helpful?


When trying the door key turning initialising sequence, I can elicit a chirrup from the alarm and simultaneous flash of the indicators for every lock (anti clockwise) turn but nothing on the right clockwise turn other than an initial FULL central locking opening activation.


I don't mind revealing my key sequence is 4241 - am I actually inputting it correctly as I seem to have done up until now with 4 left, 2 right, 4 left and one right - things I've read online say the turns are opposite with a final unlock turn to get the door unlocked to open - is this on a LHD set of instructions?

Do I need to turn the key x4 times to the left lock position first?


The dash message matrix indicates a prompt to insert ignition and a host of SRS airbag, window/sunroof reset prompts - will these settle once the engine is activated/started, I've never got far enough on this before?


I have not had a single *lock out* warning to date, just a repeated *engine disabled* trying to unlock the immobiliser though have waited the 10 and 30 minute intervals I've seen mentioned online and in the handbook - I have no original security codes/card to refer to in any service history paperwork.


The alarm siren never sounds whether the door or bonnet are opened whilst I'm trying the key turn 'handshake'.


How do you guys recommend I move forwards in addressing my starting issue. I don't have any generic/Range Rover diagnostic kit and the car isn't really in a position to take anywhere. In fact, it's attraction is the ability to be a superb towcar as it's running on multipoint LPG!!


All the best for tomorrow and the coming New Year!
Andrew

turn ign on push fob button and see what happens, nothing on early ones but later ones the message disappears

Sounds like you need to resync the key with the car...

On the later models, they featured Easy-Sync, the Ignition Barrel had a coil in it that would pick up the key and tell the key to send the sync code to the RF Receiver....simples.

On the earlier model (like yours) you need to perform a resync procedure....now first things first is to check the RF Receiver behind the drivers side rear seat...at the top where the seat fold release button is, under the plastic surround is a black box with 2 connections - one of these connections is a blue antenna wire...ensure this is connected or the sync may not work!

The general procedure I have used with success is to close all the doors and bonnet and tail, put the key in the drivers door lock and turn to the lock direction and press the lock button on the fob...then turn to the unlock and press the unlock button on the fob, remove the key and lock using the fob button then unlock using the fob button then open the door and start the engine...this resyncs the fob and BeCM's rolling codes.

Failing that send a PM to Mozz Smith (Member on here) he seems to be a genius with Key Code Lockouts....

Obviously until the key is resynced to the car, you will have to enter the EKA Code to remobilise the Engine.

The Fob does contain a transpoder chip and must be functioning for the resync to work!

Transponder is in the plastic body!

I am wondering as it now doesn't respond to the key inputs for the EKA that your door lock mech could be faulty.

The Lock Mech contains a microswitch that picks up on the key turns...if this switch is fecked (common fail on the P38) then it won't transmit the EKA key turns to the BeCM hence why it is still disabled...

Also if the BeCM has gone into alarmed mode, the resync procedure will not be accepted!

Only way to tell is through Diagnostics if the BeCM is alarmed or not.

hi druim, like your post !!! ive not had any p.m.s yet so he could be the last of 2013 .. will wait and see , well at this time of the year it leaves me to wish yourself and everyone else on landyzone a fantastic new year !!!!!!!! and hope all your troubles are small ones . !!!!!! there is NO electronics within the keyblade holder it is set in place by way of a spring and small steell rod if i can find the photos i will post as i had a old key donated to me to dissasemble of wich i did so it helped understood a bit more about key function when i researched the re-sync problems way back in the day ,, ok lads dont get too ****ed to-nite cos i will be breaking the old bacardi out ,,,cheers to all MOZZ

mozz smith said:

hi druim, like your post !!! ive not had any p.m.s yet so he could be the last of 2013 .. will wait and see , well at this time of the year it leaves me to wish yourself and everyone else on landyzone a fantastic new year !!!!!!!! and hope all your troubles are small ones . !!!!!! there is NO electronics within the keyblade holder it is set in place by way of a spring and small steell rod if i can find the photos i will post as i had a old key donated to me to dissasemble of wich i did so it helped understood a bit more about key function when i researched the re-sync problems way back in the day ,, ok lads dont get too ****ed to-nite cos i will be breaking the old bacardi out ,,,cheers to all MOZZ

Click to expand...

Happy New year :5bparty:

Leave white connection connected and disconnect the blue aerial lead only!

I have responded in line to some of your questions - as it is easier than writing a whole load of answers and having to go back and forth to reference them to questions... Hope some of this helps!

N151SDW said:

Back online now the hols are almost forgotten already! Wishing you all a Happy New Year, hope you had a great Christmas break!

It seems you're the top man I need to talk to Mozz so if it's OK with you I'll pm you or try and call you tomorrow when I know I have the time to spare on the beast!

I wonder, is there already a thread I could get a link to, to spare you hearing me grinding and gnashing my teeth on this thing!! lol I've started looking through the search/archive facility and a definitive A - B - C series of steps would be solid gold as alas I still seem to be finding a few contradictions!

Just as a way of completeness with the situation as it stands currently on N151SDW - in it's as bought rough and ready state - I haven't managed to spare more than a couple of hours actually fixing things yet , just days messing with the key/doorlock! I so want to start giving the thing TLC now:



the broken plip and newly cut/purchased key look like this:



You could possibly get a replacement key FOB (plip) from eBay, with a blank key blade in it (not one that says it has the electronics and just needs programming... this is impossible, as the key has to come programmed from LR) as you can buy just the plastic shells with blank key blade to then get cut from your current manual key - at least then you will have a fully built key FOB.

the red plip LED works on pressing the lock and unlock although the central locking on the car only ever responds to the unlock plip button being pressed - nothing happens apart from the red LED flashing when I try the lock plip button. On the key, the whole central locking throughout works including the NS door/tailgate. Is the plip knackred and due an internal repair on the lock microswitch if the red plip light illuminates?

I have a spare key FOB from an old P38 I sold on years ago but had lost at the time - I'm going to pull it apart at some point and look at how the switches are wired - ie whether one set of contacts goes to the LED and one to the chips, or whether the chip drives the LED. If it is the former, then it may just be a bad switch. If it is the latter, then there could be something else wrong with the key FOB, or something in the vehicle.

The missing blade - I'm damned fortunate I took this photo the day before I somehow managed to lose it!




I'm charging the battery up to 100% and can leave it connected permanently on the machine if I unplug the main white multiplug on the RF receiver on the OSR arch seat release bracket mounting so it seems there's an interference that's constantly triggering the thing and causing my flat battery symptoms - something else to look at so long as I hear that V8 burble once again as I'm getting withdrawal symptoms...

As mentioned, you can just unplug the blue antenna lead - this should stop the receiver waking up the BECM - though in some rare cases where the RF interference is really strong, then it may still get woken up, in which case unplugging the RF unit will stop this, but it will also stop the key FOB from being able to be synchronised - and used. It would be best to just unplug the antenna for the moment whilst you're trying to resolve the synch issues. Other reasons for the BECM not sleeping could be down to one of the 'activation inputs' (specific inputs that will wake the BECM) having a problem, or an internal BECM fault. Plenty to check and test before getting that serious though!

There's a red LED flashing at the base of the front screen on the dash when the car is locked - is this the red light I need to search for when trying syncing EKA etc? No - this is just the security LED that flashes once every couple of seconds when the alarm is activated. Once the alarm is first activated it flashes quickly for 10s and then slows down to the 'one flash every couple of seconds' rate. When entering the EKA, apparently the 'side lights' icon on instrument binnacle (top centre between the direction indicator lights) will illuminate. I haven't witnessed it on mine, but then I've only had to put the EKA in once, and I was concentrating more on getting the EKA sequence right!

I get all the indicators flashing and the chirrup of the alarm when I turn to key to the lock position on the driver's door. This implies to me that there is a problem - and you are getting a 'mislock' sound. My 2001 does this if the alarm doesn't set properly - like if I've left a door/tailgate open. But I also get a message up on the dash telling me what isn't closed. I can't remember if there's a BECM option to sound a chirp on a successful lock/alarm set though - but definitely sounds more like a warning.

When I try the EKA code, there's x2 unlock turns together in the sequence - I get the first unlocking the door locks but there's no corresponding acknowledgment it's worked by the indicators/alarm sounding - it only does this on the lock turns - is this correct. As mentioned above - I think this means there's a fault somewhere - also I don't think that something is going right in the EKA procedure, as there should not be two lock or unlock turns in a row. The sequence should go:
Turn Key 4 times to the LOCK position to tell the BECM to expect EKA code. Make sure the key is returned to the centre after each 'LOCK'
Input the first number from the EKA by turning the key x times to the UNLOCK position (where x is the first number in the EKA)
Input the second number from the EKA by turning the key x times to the LOCK position (where x is the second number in the EKA)
Input the third number from the EKA by turning the key x times to the UNLOCK position (where x is the third number in the EKA)
Input the fourth number from the EKA by turning the key x times to the LOCK position (where x is the fourth number in the EKA)
Finally turn the key to the UNLOCK position and all of the doors should unlock, the alarm will disarm, and the engine will be mobilised for starting.

You should then be able to synch the FOB by pressing the LOCK button, whilst turning the key in the door to the LOCK position (or by pressing UNLOCK on the FOB whilst turning key in the door to the UNLOCK position)


It is worth mentioning that the first job I needed to do upon purchasing N151SDW was a replacement of the driver's door window winder regulator as it had given up. I wonder whether I could have disturbed the wiring on the lock itself on the driver's door although had discounted this as a potential issue as the starter/ignition and alarm worked fine after I had done this job although have kept the door trim off in case I need to delve into the bowels of the doorlock. Just a bit of clutching at straws but thought I'd mention it.. Possible. If you're handy with a multimeter (just a few simple continuity checks on the 'Ohms' range, then have a look at this web page:
P38 Range Rover Central locking Door Lock Actuator-P38 Range Rover Electrical Common faults and Fixes

And follow the links down the left hand side to test the microswitches in the latch. This shows you what wires to meter out, and the results you should expect to see. It will help determine if you have a faulty latch. You can repeat this for the passenger door latch to check that one too if you want to rule it out of the equation.

With the starter/ignition/alarm all sixes and sevens at the moment, will the SRS airbag warning among all the other windows/roof dialogues just be a case of resetting them or is there an additional SRS airbag issue that needs fixing?

Windows and sunroof will just need to be reset. For the windows just wind them down one at a time and back up, but holding the button for a couple of extra seconds at the end of each direction of travel. The message centre should confirm with a XX WINDOW SET (wher XX is the window you've moved). For the sunroof: Run it all the way open, hold for 2 sec - run it all the way closed. Release button, and re-press to move the sunroof to the tilted position. Hold button for 2 sec. Close sunroof. You should then get 'SUNROOF SET' on the message centre, and you're all done.

SRS - on the pre '99 models you have to get the unit reset by diagnostics gear. The good thing is that the diagnostics will tell you what has caused the fault (airbag, blown lamp, crash sensor etc). If it is an airbag fault listed on diagnostics, then it might just be the connector. Worst case - if it's the drivers air bag, it could be the clockspring in the steering wheel. Best case, it's one of the warning lamps on the dashboard has failed - as in the system self-check if it detects one of the lamps has blown it will show the warning light and log a fault.

All the best,
Andrew

Click to expand...

Hope this has helped!

Cheers,
Marty

OP, as far as I'm aware, a 96 model does not have a transponder in the ignition lock, it was introduced much later.

Just as a clarification on the key FOB housing from the likes of eBay... to refurb the FOB you want something like this:

LAND RANGE ROVER 2 BUTTON FLIP KEY FOB CASE SHELL RANGE P38 REMOTE | eBay

Which is just a shell, and a blank key blade - which you then transplant your circuit board from the broken FOB into, and get the blank key blade cut.

You DON'T want to buy something like this:

GENUINE RANGE ROVER P38 ETC 2 BUTTON REMOTE ALARM UNCUT FLIP KEY FOB | eBay

As you CANNOT 'Program' a FOB to the vehicle. This is done at LR (Technically by Huf - who make the keys), and hence why you can only buy new keys from a main dealer. Any auctions like this are either a scam, or someone who doesn't know what they're selling. I wonder how long it is before there's a thread on a Range Rover/Land Rover forum with someone starting "I bought this complete key on eBay, which they said I just need to get it programmed to the vehicle - how do I do that?"...

Marty

martyuk said:

As you CANNOT 'Program' a FOB to the vehicle. This is done at LR (Technically by Huf - who make the keys), and hence why you can only buy new keys from a main dealer. Any auctions like this are either a scam, or someone who doesn't know what they're selling. I wonder how long it is before there's a thread on a Range Rover/Land Rover forum with someone starting "I bought this complete key on eBay, which they said I just need to get it programmed to the vehicle - how do I do that?"...

Marty

Click to expand...

There have been many threads like that

Datatek said:

There have been many threads like that

Click to expand...

I'm not surprised - I've seen a fair few of them on rangerovers.net where I usually post (well, slowly cutting back on there as forums like this seem a lot friendlier). There haven't been any threads like that recently as I think the awareness is out there a bit more that it can't be done...

I've actually sent the seller a question asking how you program the key to the vehicle, as my "understanding" is that it can only be done by LR... I'm interested in seeing what their answer is!

Marty

Good Luck getting the key apart...they are 'welded' together.....careful use of dremel or similar may get it apart...just be careful of the internals!

martyuk said:

I'm not surprised - I've seen a fair few of them on rangerovers.net where I usually post (well, slowly cutting back on there as forums like this seem a lot friendlier). There haven't been any threads like that recently as I think the awareness is out there a bit more that it can't be done...

I've actually sent the seller a question asking how you program the key to the vehicle, as my "understanding" is that it can only be done by LR... I'm interested in seeing what their answer is!

Marty

Click to expand...

LR cannot program the FOB's, it can only be done by the manufacturers HUFF.

Back again!

I am at a total loss and still in the doldrums with this disabled engine.

I have read through many posts here for resyncing the key although my plip only unlocks but doesn't lock - it does illuminate the plip red light when both buttons are pressed and I have no reference for what it's been like with the car only purchased in mid Dec. I have dismantled the old plip and checked the tiny micro switches for operation/visually but haven't tried to get them tested and just transferred the guts/PCB into a new Chinese flip case bought off ebay (quite good actually and indented with "LAND ROVER" unlike many). The thing will send an RF signal to unlock the car but that's it.

For a different tack I've purchased a syncmate which indicates a communication error flashing the red LED - where do I go with this next?

I'm totally baffled and despondent and am considering scrapping it or selling it complete despite really wanting to enjoy owning it - what's a complete but immobilised 4.6HSE worth? Scrap value?

Is there anyone in the South Wales area that can talk me down from this high window ledge I'm sitting on that could run their RR experienced mind through!?

Two things:

Am I not getting the key resynchronised due to the in operative button on the plip? Just because it's flashing when the button is pressed is this an indicator to a signal too?

The lack of communication with the obd syncmate bothers me - is this the root of the problem with no becm communicating with the engine ECU?

As it seems I'm unable to get myself out of this fix, what are the viable options that I have open to me?

Does a new key from LR costing £100's still need a laptop plugging into the car requiring an expensive call out on top of the plip price?

If I'm talking with a dealer are they the only ones with a means of confirming the EKA code or do reputable specialists have access to this information too?