ukadamwest
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Classic 44 Year old, seized, corroded V8 rebuild thread.....
- Thread starter Saint.V8
- Start date
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Neither am I.....
Gudgeon pins are being a bit of a sod.....nearly 4 days soaked in penetrating oil and they are still solid in the pistons.....gonna try and get one out tomorrow evening....here's hoping.
Gonna re-measure the bores as well and see if we can get that dark shodaow to reduce....a fellow at work rebuilds and races Pinto engines, and whilst he doesn't like the look of the pistons to much, he thinks that if there is enough honing tolerance (i.e. the bores aren't worn and there is material spare) to keep honing it for a few more passes and see if the dark patches reduce.
He also says, as it is not a high stressed engine, and will lead a relatively sheltered, unhurried life after the potential rebuild he would not be overly concerned.
So once we can assess the pistons, the heads are the next major issue.....it is obvious the guides are not doubt caked up, and with the stuck open valves it needs a good clean up....
Not looking forward to that one much!
Gudgeon pins are being a bit of a sod.....nearly 4 days soaked in penetrating oil and they are still solid in the pistons.....gonna try and get one out tomorrow evening....here's hoping.
Gonna re-measure the bores as well and see if we can get that dark shodaow to reduce....a fellow at work rebuilds and races Pinto engines, and whilst he doesn't like the look of the pistons to much, he thinks that if there is enough honing tolerance (i.e. the bores aren't worn and there is material spare) to keep honing it for a few more passes and see if the dark patches reduce.
He also says, as it is not a high stressed engine, and will lead a relatively sheltered, unhurried life after the potential rebuild he would not be overly concerned.
So once we can assess the pistons, the heads are the next major issue.....it is obvious the guides are not doubt caked up, and with the stuck open valves it needs a good clean up....
Not looking forward to that one much!
- Posts
- 18,970
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- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Plusgas and then maybe a tickle from a torch?
jamesmartin
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- louth lincs
a torch on a piston you might want to save
- Posts
- 18,970
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Would a bit of heat around the pin hurt that much? I guess it could make it brittle but just a little tickle wouldn't hurt it that much, would it?
raywin
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A bit of heat is a good way to free things up especially with an Aluminium piston and a steel pin, the expansion rates are different and this will work for you.
Why not try putting a bit of oil in an old pan and heating it up then dip the piston into it, keeping the pin out, should allow you to get the piston up to about 140 degrees which may help, need to move quickly then before the pin heats up.
By the way great thread following it with interest.
- Posts
- 58,170
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- Preston Lancs.
If i remember correctly the 3.5 gudgeon pins are a press fit into the conrod and the gudgeon pin bears on the piston. They need to be pressed in or out. With the amount of water damage i would say if the pistons are seized to the gudgeon pins they are scrap.There was a tool for removing pins and refitting pistons to the conrod. But it's a long time ago since i have done any 3.5s.
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RAVE shows a tool for pulling out and refitting the pins....
Just had a go over lunch to get a pin out, manufactured a tool that works in similar principle to the LR tool.....and by fecking Christ that was hard work.....the pin was solid.
It had been soaking for 4 days in penetrating oil (Aztec Chemicals Lever and also Freeway)....applied pressure and the pin moved with the conrod until the small end butted up against the piston skirt....and that's where it stopped, and refused to budge.
Our man Neil, fired up the gas torch and gently heated the small end (as the pin moves in the piston), and as there was tension on the puller, it went ping and the pin moved a bit more, so we continued to pull until it locked up again. We re-heated the small end and it moved a bit more....
We left it to cool for an hour then applied pressure again and it moved a bit more.....more oil.....moved a bit more.....then more heat once it refused to move and she moved some more....until she eventually them gave up resisting and wound out....
Feck me that was a fight, took three of us to get one pin out and the best part of 90 minutes of heating and allowing to cool, apply some pressure and lube it up....
Will upload some photos shortly of the tool and etc....
Not looking forward to the other 7 pins out!
Might be easier to get a S/H engine and reuse those pistons and rods.....
Just had a go over lunch to get a pin out, manufactured a tool that works in similar principle to the LR tool.....and by fecking Christ that was hard work.....the pin was solid.
It had been soaking for 4 days in penetrating oil (Aztec Chemicals Lever and also Freeway)....applied pressure and the pin moved with the conrod until the small end butted up against the piston skirt....and that's where it stopped, and refused to budge.
Our man Neil, fired up the gas torch and gently heated the small end (as the pin moves in the piston), and as there was tension on the puller, it went ping and the pin moved a bit more, so we continued to pull until it locked up again. We re-heated the small end and it moved a bit more....
We left it to cool for an hour then applied pressure again and it moved a bit more.....more oil.....moved a bit more.....then more heat once it refused to move and she moved some more....until she eventually them gave up resisting and wound out....
Feck me that was a fight, took three of us to get one pin out and the best part of 90 minutes of heating and allowing to cool, apply some pressure and lube it up....
Will upload some photos shortly of the tool and etc....
Not looking forward to the other 7 pins out!
Might be easier to get a S/H engine and reuse those pistons and rods.....
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- 58,170
- Location
- Preston Lancs.
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- 16,475
I did Tony....hence why I said that RAVE shows a tool for getting the pins in and out!!! So I made one rather than the £300 odd Dingcroft wanted for it!See my previous post Ant.
May have been press fitted at the factory, but the Overhaul manual shows this threaded tool for pulling them out.
Nervous of using either our 45 tonne press or the big 200 tonne jack testing press to get these out and they are both likely to collapse the piston!
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- 58,170
- Location
- Preston Lancs.
Well when i said pressed in and out i didn't mean a bloody great press, i meant the tool. Used it quite often in bygone days. Not difficult to do as i remember. But as i say it's been a while.
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As per the discussion above....
The 'Tool' consists of a 4.5" long tube of approx. 32mm ID....welded to the end is a plate with a hole in and a M12 nut welded to that....
A approx. 12" long M12 threaded rod, turned down at the end 5" or so to accept an M10 thread cut on the last 1.25" or so.
Welded to the tube is a handle...this is clamped in the vice...
Place rod through Gudgeon Pin and attach 2 M10 full nuts and lock together tightly.
Start winding the threaded rod out to pull on the pin and withdraw.....sounds simple right?? Nope, start winding then apply heat and repeat (all discussed above)
After much time and swearing....
Pin withdrawn into tube
The Pin
One down - 7 more to go
Close up of the piston, not looking to bad...will now see how well it cleans up!
Not looking forward to the rest of them!
The 'Tool' consists of a 4.5" long tube of approx. 32mm ID....welded to the end is a plate with a hole in and a M12 nut welded to that....
A approx. 12" long M12 threaded rod, turned down at the end 5" or so to accept an M10 thread cut on the last 1.25" or so.
Welded to the tube is a handle...this is clamped in the vice...
Place rod through Gudgeon Pin and attach 2 M10 full nuts and lock together tightly.
Start winding the threaded rod out to pull on the pin and withdraw.....sounds simple right?? Nope, start winding then apply heat and repeat (all discussed above)
After much time and swearing....
Pin withdrawn into tube
The Pin
One down - 7 more to go
Close up of the piston, not looking to bad...will now see how well it cleans up!
Not looking forward to the rest of them!
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raywin
Well-Known Member
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- 3,808
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- North Yorkshire
Looking at the picture the pin looks quite good, but the bore in the piston looks quite scabby, looks like more heat and more swearing needed here.
- Posts
- 18,970
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Good effort. Piece of **** now you've done one of them, surely?!
- Posts
- 18,970
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Whole engine looked pretty sh!tty to me. Going to be quite a rescue if, sorry, WHEN he manages it.
raywin
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- North Yorkshire
Will be a great achievement to get this one going, but I'm beginning to agree that maybe a good idea to look for a scrapper with some better pistons and con rods.
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Just bought a set of S/H rods with pistons.....on the bay full of E.....
Look in good nick....will see how these clean up, then take a view....can always re-sell if not used!
Look in good nick....will see how these clean up, then take a view....can always re-sell if not used!
- Posts
- 18,970
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
I have every confidence in Saint raising this one from the grave. No pressure.
- Posts
- 18,970
- Location
- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
- Posts
- 16,475
hee hee....this is more of a 'lets hope I don't have to use them' scenario really....Does Adam know you've got his credit card?!
Really just want the Con Rods, I can reuse the pistons!
