1999 TD5 - cold heater - head gasket ? - any advice?

ok. Well I was really enjoying the very short time I've owned my Discovery..... until I discovered I've been possibly shafted by the guy I bought it off!!

To be fair I got it for a great price off ebay, as the three amigo warning lights were on and it was a px he didn't want to meddle with fixing ..(hes got a small garage just a couple of miles from me by chance and sells minis mainly )

Its in great visual condition, 115k miles, great bodywork and doesn't seem to have been abused.
Has clearly had money spent by previous owner who is a local antique dealer (I know his shop as its on log book). New disk brakes/pads, great tyres etc

Anyway, test drive went well, (auto box). Everything seemed to work as it should and as it was snowing and I was in a rush, I basically didn't go in to as much depth as I should have. When I tested the heater, I did hear a gurgle behind the dash. This set alarm bells ringing a bit. So I checked coolant, all seemed fine, oil fine. And for some stupid reason i didn't wait for the heater to get hot. I assumed it would be an airlock or something sortable (I guesstimate budgeted about £300-£350 to sort the three amigos and get an MOT)

Anyway, long story short after a first day of ownership. This is what Ive noticed:

heater blows fine (digital air con display)
Air only seems to be cold..

Coolant level was fine.
It doesn't seem to be pressurised , radiator top hose is squidgy but not as hot and hard as I expected from other cars Ive had....

bottom hose seemed similiar.


Also, the temperature guage goes up very quickly on startup to halfway and then seems to just sit there!!!??

I have only done about 20 or 30 miles but have seen no signs of overheating.


Ive done a fair bit of spannering on past cars but was hoping not to have to do anything to this at least for a while!

can anyone point me in the right direction of what I should be looking at?

it looks like its got new studs on the cylinder head for the exhaust manifold. In fact the engine looks like it has been well looked after which cheered me up a little.

I am going to check if the heater matrix pipes going to the cab are hot the next time I go out in it later. but my only thought currently is the thermostat is stuck open? and an airlock for the dash gurgling

Got no experience at all with land Rovers so would be most grateful for help.
and sorry for the waffling dialogue... I have found it therapeutic

Also, I'm getting the fault codes read asap but according to the seller its been scanned and its OS abs sensor.... not that Im taking it for gospel!

try bleeding the coolant, open screw on top hose whilst engine is running, close when air free water comes out, that may help with the gurgling, temp gauge is ecu controlled so does not react like the usual ones, just before hafway is about right

johnlad said:

try bleeding the coolant, open screw on top hose whilst engine is running, close when air free water comes out, that may help with the gurgling, temp gauge is ecu controlled so does not react like the usual ones, just before hafway is about right

Click to expand...

Thanks mate. Do I bleed the heater matrix by just putting heat on to full, and then bleed from the top hose at the same time?
thanks again

i think so, some say to raise the expansion tank as high as you can whilst bleeding

johnlad said:

i think so, some say to raise the expansion tank as high as you can whilst bleeding

Click to expand...

Cheers. I've managed to find the bleed procedure document after a few more searches on here. Will go out and try this now......

and be aware that the aircon/blower controll has nothing to do with the bleeding/air in the system, just that if it's an airlock or something it will not blow warm air...the coolant flow through the whole circuit+matrix is totally independent of the aircon unit

Well Im puzzled....
I went for a good drive. On boost a fair bit and gave it ten minutes to get to temperature. (I still dont understand why the temp gauge reads just below halfway from a few seconds after start up..and doesn't move from there??) anyway, pulled over and checked the top radiator hose, quite hard but I could squish it and it didn't feel like it was pressurised.. It seemed to get softer once I had been idling a while though but that could have just been me imagining it.

The heater got warm on the drive. Not belting hot but decently warm. It almost seemed to respond to engine rpm?!

Coolant level was bang on when i set off. I bled it from the bleed point. Seemed to let a fair bit of air out but it was tricky to tell how long to bleed it for. There always seemed to be a little bubbling water when I opened it up a decent amount?! This got less though.

Upshot - the heater is no hotter and it did a nice gurgle or two just as I pulled up!!!
I checked the pipes going into the heater matrix and they were luke warm when I had been driving for a bit??

Is the thermostat stuck open?
Are there any better ways to test for HG issues...
Coolant water is bright pink. Do I need to get my coolant tested - does anyone else think HG or am I being paranoid..?
Coolant was down a bit but probably from bleeding. Am going to top up and drive it a bit tomorrow and see if its using any
Any suggestions as to what next really appreciated....
thanks

take it on motorway, above 50mph for half an hour, if it boils out of expansion tank, and temp gauge suddenly goes into red suspect head gasket,
also if after a hard drive, leave overnight, then release expansion cap if therre is still a lot of pressure in the system then also suspect head gasket

johnlad said:

take it on motorway, above 50mph for half an hour, if it boils out of expansion tank, and temp gauge suddenly goes into red suspect head gasket,
also if after a hard drive, leave overnight, then release expansion cap if therre is still a lot of pressure in the system then also suspect head gasket

Click to expand...

Good ideas there. Cheers fella. I will see what pressure is in there in the morning.

As an estimate does anyone know how long a Head Gasket should take

1: a competent-ish home mechanic
2: a land rover indy

I've got a bad feeling about this.... and want to prepare myself!! I was thinking it should be possible to get it done in a long day if I have all the tools ready and it just needs a new gasket and dowels???. If I need to get the head skimmed then of course that'll throw a spanner in the works timewise.


aaaaghh...cant believe Im talking about head gasket after 2 days :director:

anderow said:

Good ideas there. Cheers fella. I will see what pressure is in there in the morning.

As an estimate does anyone know how long a Head Gasket should take

1: a competent-ish home mechanic
2: a land rover indy

I've got a bad feeling about this.... and want to prepare myself!! I was thinking it should be possible to get it done in a long day if I have all the tools ready and it just needs a new gasket and dowels???. If I need to get the head skimmed then of course that'll throw a spanner in the works timewise.


aaaaghh...cant believe Im talking about head gasket after 2 days :director:

Click to expand...

head gasket isnt difficult to do, can be done at home in a day, but once the head is off send it to be pressure tested and skimmed, before re fitting as they have a habit of cracking if overheated, mainly due to LR fitting them with plastic dowels during assembly

That's some comfort then! cheers mate. I'm going to buy a coolant exhaust gas tester thingy if I cant get it done at the garage when I rock up tomorrow!! will post back.

Are there any good guides on here for doing the Disco TDi head gasket? I need to assemble a tools list in case of bad news lol!

Coolant is supposed to be pink! Its called OAT and is correct for the TD5.
Start by flushing the heater matrix in both directions until the water runs clear.
Suspect the heater control cables not opening the flaps fully or heater box gaskets perished allowing most of the hot air into the engine bay rather than the cabin.
TD5s never seem to run as hot as other diesels.

The reason the gauge appears to stay fixed is because it is controlled by the ECU and works between a fixed range of temps. If it statrs to move higher then the engine really is overheating and TD5s are prone to head damage if overheated.

I've fixed the three amigos previously by getting hold of a Nanocom Classic diagnostics box and cycling the high pressure ABS/WABCO circuits whilst bleeding each wheel individually. I'm not sure if the Nanocom Evo or the Hawkeye have the same options though. Let peeps know where abouts in the country you live and you may be able to borrow a Nanocom.

Trace each wheel ABS sensor cabling back from the wheel to the plug in connector and un-plug and give them a good clean. Re-plug using vaseline as they often get corroded and indicate a sensor fault.

If still no joy then you need to go deeper but the above remedies are relatively cheap and easy to do and a good starting point.

Good luck

Shifty1962 said:

Coolant is supposed to be pink! Its called OAT and is correct for the TD5.
Start by flushing the heater matrix in both directions until the water runs clear.
Suspect the heater control cables not opening the flaps fully or heater box gaskets perished allowing most of the hot air into the engine bay rather than the cabin.
TD5s never seem to run as hot as other diesels.

The reason the gauge appears to stay fixed is because it is controlled by the ECU and works between a fixed range of temps. If it statrs to move higher then the engine really is overheating and TD5s are prone to head damage if overheated.

I've fixed the three amigos previously by getting hold of a Nanocom Classic diagnostics box and cycling the high pressure ABS/WABCO circuits whilst bleeding each wheel individually. I'm not sure if the Nanocom Evo or the Hawkeye have the same options though. Let peeps know where abouts in the country you live and you may be able to borrow a Nanocom.

Trace each wheel ABS sensor cabling back from the wheel to the plug in connector and un-plug and give them a good clean. Re-plug using vaseline as they often get corroded and indicate a sensor fault.

If still no joy then you need to go deeper but the above remedies are relatively cheap and easy to do and a good starting point.

Good luck

Click to expand...

thanks mate. Very helpful.
yes, I know coolant is pink....!!! I was saying in regards to the fact that it isnt 'rusty' coloured or off pink which would either mean that the garage changed the coolant just before I got it... or that the coolant isn't mixing with exhaust gases. Although I realise that's not necessarily the case, it's just how I've judged it on other cars I've owned!

I am in Sheffield, near Stannington. If there is anyone with diagnostic reader that would be a godsend... Im just setting off now to the Land Rover indy to get the codes read and a coolant test done hopefully.


UPDATE... gutted!
Well Im not going to bother with a coolant test now. I just went out to check the expansion tank to see what the level was like from last night.
Lo and behold, its got more pressure in it than a coke bottle that's just been shaken.
great
Just hope its not a cracked cylinder head or this car is going to heaven!

So, does anyone have any tips for doing the head gasket?
Will I be allright using pattern head bolts? Ive looked on ebay and once Ive susses what gasket I need and what special tools??? I need Im going to get it stripped off.
Then get it crack tested and skimmed.

P*ssed off is an understatement

Ok. Got my head round this now lol

Would greatly appreciate it anyone whos done a TD5 HG before could advise me as Im going to take the head off on thursday

Parts - was going to get head pressure tested, skimmed and order new HG as appropriate (thickness wise)... or shall i just order a stock HG?
Does HG thickness go on the number of dots in it or what?!!

- was going to use an OEM head installation kit, and elring HG gaskets. Was going to use aftermarket new head bolts?

I have been reading rave , it doesn't mention air con compressor? it looks like I need to remove it for certain?

Rave mentions a crank locking tool as well as cam locking tool. I was going to use a bolt for the cams? is there any other option for locking the crank?

Would really appreciate some advice as Im so p*ssed off to have to be doing this less than a week after buying it...!! Its a nice clean car apart from this though so I'm hoping it's worth it.

How long should removing the head take for a reasonably competent DIY mechanic? I was hoping to have it removed in about 4-5 hours... Is this realistic!!!
thanks

hi you might be able to get it off in that time but when i did one it took about 7 hrs and also you will need 2 peaple to help lift the head off as the timing chain is a pain also watch for the fuel line that bolt with no gasket on to the head as this can go wrong when re-fitting. i would fit a standerd hg as you will get a bit more compresstion but not much, i dont rember removing the air con but you might have to.
thank

schultz said:

hi you might be able to get it off in that time but when i did one it took about 7 hrs and also you will need 2 peaple to help lift the head off as the timing chain is a pain also watch for the fuel line that bolt with no gasket on to the head as this can go wrong when re-fitting. i would fit a standerd hg as you will get a bit more compresstion but not much, i dont rember removing the air con but you might have to.
thank

Click to expand...

ok cheers mate.

The rave manual says to remove the bonnet and half way through the job to jack the car up.
Im doing this at roadside.....

Do I actually need to do the above or can it be done without?

anyone? I'm thinking to put it on ramps before I start. But I'm sure as sh*t not taking the bonnet off!!!

Also, thanks again shultz. I will budget most of a day for stripping it down then, especially as I might need a tool that I dont have to hand lol.
will update this thread

If you are getting the head skimmed get a three hole gasket (thickest they do) to allow for any protrusion of the valve faces. Especially if they are not going to ream and recut the valve seats. You wont notice any difference in engine performance.

You can get the head off in an hour so long as all the manifold bolts come out.
I've reused head bolts but thats up to you. They are degree tightened and are designed to stretch a tad on tightening so they can also break if reused. Use steel head locating dowels.

Locking pins are to make sure the timing does not get moved but if you are really careful you dont need them. Just be careful when you put the timing chain sprocket back on. I've done a TD5 with no timing pins in a goat pen in Tanzania and it fired right up. You can use a suitable sized drill bit to lock the cam if you're worried but the crank pin needs a bit more effort to fabricate.

There's no real need to put it up on ramps unless you want to. Why not take the bonnet off? It takes seconds with no tools and gives you so much more access and light.

Drain the coolant so it does not fill the cylinders when you pull the head.

Remove the hydraulic chain tensioner and keep it upright in a jam jar of engine oil so it does not drain out. They can be tempramental to refill when empty.
You need the slack in the chain this gives. Dont drop anything down the chain cover or you'll be pulling the engine apart to retrieve it.

Make sure you adjust the injector rockers by bottoming them out then backing them off by exactly one turn then turn the engine over by hand a few times to make sure nothing is clashing.

Other than that its a simple spannering job.

Dont forget to weigh the old head in at the scrappy. You'll be surprised how much you'll get fopr it.

Superb. That really is great info mate. Much appreciated helping a landrover newbie out...

I was just going to get the head crack tested (hopefully at temperature if they can) and skimmed if it's ok, welded if it's not... (and if it can be fixed)

An hour?! I will bear that in mind when Im thrashing around 3 hours in lol

roger that on the head bolts and locating dowels - cheers

at the goat pen in tanzania bit!! Nice job!

Never knew the bonnet was so easy to remove..!!! I will do so!

yep, will drain the coolant. Is it worth draining the oil as well in case its been mixing with derv or coolant? or is that overkill.

Thanks for the chain tensioner and chain cover tips. Will remember that!

Injector rockers?? never heard of em But will do so..

I hope I'm not going to have to weigh the old head in for scrap!! as that will mean buying a new one which will be very upsetting financially and mentally!!

When you reused head bolts, did you torque them as with the previous ones?


thanks again