1999 TD5 - cold heater - head gasket ? - any advice?

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anderow said:
Superb. That really is great info mate. Much appreciated helping a landrover newbie out...

I was just going to get the head crack tested (hopefully at temperature if they can) and skimmed if it's ok, welded if it's not... (and if it can be fixed)

An hour?! I will bear that in mind when Im thrashing around 3 hours in lol

roger that on the head bolts and locating dowels - cheers

:D at the goat pen in tanzania bit!! Nice job!

Never knew the bonnet was so easy to remove..!!! I will do so!

yep, will drain the coolant. Is it worth draining the oil as well in case its been mixing with derv or coolant? or is that overkill.

Thanks for the chain tensioner and chain cover tips. Will remember that!

Injector rockers?? never heard of em :D But will do so..

I hope I'm not going to have to weigh the old head in for scrap!! as that will mean buying a new one which will be very upsetting financially and mentally!!

When you reused head bolts, did you torque them as with the previous ones?


thanks again
Click to expand...
Why not do an oil change whilke you're doing the head? That way you know you've got good oil with no contaminants.

Injector rockers will be obvious when you take the cam carrier cover off. They are just like valve rockers but a lot beefier.

If the head is cracked its scrap! I've never yet heard of a sucessful weld to one. Dont even know of a place that would attempt it.

I reused head bolts as we had no option in the bush. Tightened them as normal bearing in mind you dont use torque settings but tighten in stages by degrees. The only bugger is if you break one off you may need to strip the engine further to get the broken bit out depending on where it snaps. Chances are if its going to snap it will be where the thread meets the unthreaded part of the bolt leaving the threaded part in the block.

I've done a few so maybe an hour is optimistic but take your time and you'll be ok. Remember not to put the head down flat on the ground if you leave the injectors in situ or you'll damage the injector tips. They have to come out for the skim so take them out before you lift the head off, keep them in position order and keep them clean. I use plastic sandwich bags and just label them with the cylinder position they came from. They need to go back in the correct cylinder unless you have the means to recode the injectors to the ECU.

If you're tempted to clean any of the pistons or bores DONT because turning the engine over will move the timing and the chain may lock up as it will be slack.
 
Shifty1962 said:
Why not do an oil change whilke you're doing the head? That way you know you've got good oil with no contaminants.

Injector rockers will be obvious when you take the cam carrier cover off. They are just like valve rockers but a lot beefier.

If the head is cracked its scrap! I've never yet heard of a sucessful weld to one. Dont even know of a place that would attempt it.

I reused head bolts as we had no option in the bush. Tightened them as normal bearing in mind you dont use torque settings but tighten in stages by degrees. The only bugger is if you break one off you may need to strip the engine further to get the broken bit out depending on where it snaps. Chances are if its going to snap it will be where the thread meets the unthreaded part of the bolt leaving the threaded part in the block.

I've done a few so maybe an hour is optimistic but take your time and you'll be ok. Remember not to put the head down flat on the ground if you leave the injectors in situ or you'll damage the injector tips. They have to come out for the skim so take them out before you lift the head off, keep them in position order and keep them clean. I use plastic sandwich bags and just label them with the cylinder position they came from. They need to go back in the correct cylinder unless you have the means to recode the injectors to the ECU.

If you're tempted to clean any of the pistons or bores DONT because turning the engine over will move the timing and the chain may lock up as it will be slack.
Click to expand...

ok cheers mate.
I will be fitting new head bolts so hopefully should be ok. Will get some new oil.
Roger that with sandwich bags, I've used this method on a few cars and vans and it works well.
I'm going to crack into this tomorrow or friday weather and time dependant so will update then :D
better go and get some thermals hehe

cheers
 
Right. Got an update on this at last. I started it the other day after work but got rained off.... and then storm force winds, snow etc lol
So I got back on it this afternoon and after much cursing got the head off on my own. I ended up having to remove the head, turbo and exhaust manifold as one unit as one of the turbo bolts was seized solid, then it rounded off even with loads of heat and a britool ring spanner persuading it :D

One of the dowels is broken and part of the head gasket is delaminated. The head is straight within tolerance so is going back on tomorrow with steel dowels and a new head gasket , injector o rings etc

The bores and pistons are in excellent order and the crosshatch honing on the bores is still very visible which I found most impressive!

Anyway, I will update tomorrow or more likely sunday as I wont have it running tomorrow I doubt as its going to be a lunchtime start again and it goes dark early (got to cut the seized turbo nut off and do injector or rings etc b4 I start) ,

fingers crossed this sorts it :)
 
johnlad said:
are you not having it pressure tested before re fitting
Click to expand...

Nope.
My mates brother is head mechanic at a large independant Land rover place (I didnt know this until I bought this disco). He reckons that out of the hundreds of TD5 headgaskets they have done, only 2 early td5s have needed new heads due to cracking. Im hoping mind is with the majority.

At the end of the day, if this doesn't sort the problem I will have to get another head. At least I will be able to swap it on quickly :)

I also checked the oil and it had no diesel in it. Coolant had no oil in it. So Im hoping it will be fine as is. I need to get the thing running asap
 
mine needed a new head as it cracked, and they crack usually on the exhaust side so oil and water dont mix, just pressurize, in my opinion it costs £30 to have it tested and is a false economy not to
 
johnlad said:
mine needed a new head as it cracked, and they crack usually on the exhaust side so oil and water dont mix, just pressurize, in my opinion it costs £30 to have it tested and is a false economy not to
Click to expand...

Oh bugger....:confused:
So maybe he was being optimistic??

Was yours plastic dowels or metal ones mate? any bad signs when the head was taken off?
 
I heard also that pressure testing wont always reveal a crack? even if done at temperature...?
That was the basis I am working on!
 
original were plastic dowels, it was a 1999, I changed them for steel
if you search on here you will see loads of td5 heads have cracked, i would say more than just gasket failure.
But some ones got to get lucky with one at some point
 
jamesmartin said:
they are usually visible
Click to expand...

Is that even without a pressure test? where should I be looking exactly on the head please... or is 'all over' applicable ? :D

Also, can anyone tell me what fuse i am best off pulling (and where its located..! ) so I can prevent ignition to build some oil pressure up before first starting after its back together. many thanks
 
anderow said:
Is that even without a pressure test? where should I be looking exactly on the head please... or is 'all over' applicable ? :D

Also, can anyone tell me what fuse i am best off pulling (and where its located..! ) so I can prevent ignition to build some oil pressure up before first starting after its back together. many thanks
Click to expand...

as far as i know if its cracked on the exhaust side it is internal and that is why it cant be welded
 
johnlad said:
as far as i know if its cracked on the exhaust side it is internal and that is why it cant be welded
Click to expand...

Ah right, cheers mate.
Well that does make sense. I remember another member saying they were usually scrap!
Hmm, well I think I'm going to sleep on it and see what the spanners tell me tomorrow :D

Hopefully I might end up getting some luck with this damned car :mad:
 
Well I've been reading up as much as I can and it seems if diesel is getting into the sump, the crack is internal. If its pressurising only, from exhaust valve seat it seems usually on cyl 2 iirc. I've been out and thoroughly inspected the combustion chambers and valve seats and cannot see any evidence of cracks. this may mean nothing but it gives me enough hope to refit and go from there. if it has a cracked head I will be taking the dealer I bought it off to court unless he repairs it FOC. will soon find out !
 
Right. Was rushing to get it back together in the rain and snow and dropped a bit of a clanger. Head is back on, I was at the stage of removing the locking pins and I removed the crank one, and then when I went to remove the cam one, it was a bit tight, so I turned the engine a fraction to centre the locking pin so it wasn't under any pressure and the cam gear stayed stationary...
Then after some messing about I realised I hadnt locked off the 3 cam gear bolts.! I got it back to where I thought it had been. locked the cam gear and turned the engine over a few times to see how things looked.
Now... I went to check the flywheel slot when the cam timing slot was in the right place, and its not there.
So I think i moved the timing. Whats the best way to sort it guys?
Or do I need to keep turning the crank (is it 20 revolutions total I would think?) to get TDC?

Whats the best option?? If the adjustment was just on the cam gear adjusters it cant be too far out? How can I find TDC and then time the cam properly!! There was no coloured links on the timing chain, just the mark on the gear and the slot on the cam for the locking tool. Does this mean Ive had a new chain or?? The car ran perfectly before this so I know the timing was spot on!

thanks a lot
 
Last edited:
think you need to turn crank until you see hole in fly wheel, lock it off then lock cam timing, then line chain pulley mark up with cam pin, and all should be ok, but dont start it untill its lined up, and try it a few full turns by hand before starting
 
johnlad said:
think you need to turn crank until you see hole in fly wheel, lock it off then lock cam timing, then line chain pulley mark up with cam pin, and all should be ok, but dont start it untill its lined up, and try it a few full turns by hand before starting
Click to expand...

Cheers mate. So do I need to keep the cam pulley bolts tight Im guessing until Ive got the flywheel slot again?

How do I get the cam timing back? this is messing with my head lol
 
if crank pins in just move cam wheel till pin fits ensuring chains tensioned and 3 bolts arent to loose ,then tighten them when alls aligned,only turn engine over with the 3 bolts tight
 
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