Why don't politicians like 4x4's

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:48:18 +0100, "David_LLAMA4x4"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Are we allowing a backdoor precedent of a Big Brother society to rule us??

They're only finishing off what the Tories started
(hint: "Tony Blair PM" is an anagram of "I'm Tory Plan B")

On 23 Sep 2004 00:46:28 -0700, [email protected] (MAB) wrote:

>Don't want to hijack this thread but ....What if all genuine 4x4
>owners agreed to have their vehicles as a seperate sub group on the
>general licence and had to take a further off road test before being
>allowed to drive them and that off road test had to have an element of
>Green Lane etiquette in it?

Oooh... I can see endless focus groups, strategy committies and a
handful of independent regulatory authorities...

The thing I can NEVER understand is why the feck it actually matters
how many wheels are driven? I think that the reality is, it doesn't
matter at all, it's more a perceptual image thing. P'raps if we all
drove 2WD busses (which, out of service are classed pretty much as
private vehicles) or 7.5 tonne trucks for the skool run... Hmm..
there's and idea...


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

It is not so much the number of driven wheel but the physical size, engine
size and fuel consunption that seems to irritate those in 'power'.

Or is it the fact that a new 'designer' 4x4 costs anything from 30k upwards
that gets up their noses?

Let us consider a practcal element ..last weekend i took my son to Leeds
where he started university, all his stuff in my RR and one 450 mile round
trip, this is against friends who have to take two cars to carry their son's
possessions, hire a van or make two trips...............which of the afore
mentioned has less of an impact on the environment???? (if the environment
really is the issue?).

For god's sake, if you want a larger engined vehicle with the poor economy
that goes with it are you not paying for the priviledge in taxation on fuel?

AlunP

In message <[email protected]>, David_LLAMA4x4
<[email protected]> writes
>Further to my above posting I have just seen on the news that the MP who has
>put the hunting bill up for discussion again has had to cancel 2 appearances
>because of pro-hunt demonstrations. He says he is surprised that they have
>nothing better to do with their time than to demonstrate!!!!
> Surely he has better things to discuss in Parliament than foxes - wjat
>about Iraq? The faultering economy? Immigration? Train network collapse? and
>that isn't even touching on health and education!!!!
>
> I am not posting to support humting - each will have their own view on
>this. I am posting to highlight whay muppets we have in parliament at the
>moment! They doubt we should be allowed to demonstration despite being a
>democracy. They skirt any awkward issues and they threaten to miss out
>stages of Govornment by bypassing the Lords! And all of this from a party
>who only got 1 in 4 of the populations vote.
> Are we allowing a backdoor precedent of a Big Brother society to rule us??
>
>End of speach! Soapboxes should be racing not stood on I suppose!
>
Exactly. Stick to talking on things you know something about, and which
is relevant to alt.fan.landrover.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

In message <[email protected]>, MAB
<[email protected]> writes
>"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> I am sick of being the butt of any politicians "in" moan to gain votes. The
>> latest will be that we are "taxed off the road" if a certain party gets in
>> !!
>> I wonder if their perks ( for the jerks) of large ministerial auto's and
>> jets will be going down the same road ??
>> I can understand the arguement for the school run, but surely this should
>> apply to all cars not just 4x4's, what the hell have we done ?
>
>Don't want to hijack this thread but ....What if all genuine 4x4
>owners agreed to have their vehicles as a seperate sub group on the
>general licence and had to take a further off road test before being
>allowed to drive them and that off road test had to have an element of
>Green Lane etiquette in it? How many bus run vehicles would be
>around then? Granted it would effct sales of vehicles but it would
>show that the damage is caused by others and not us and that we would
>then be the Good Guys for promoting a way forward.
>
>Just a thought:>)
>
>MAB
You, like another similar post earlier, are just subscribing to the
prejudice. A school run is a school run is a school run, regardless of
whether it's an X5, mondeo or whatever. If you object on engine size
then say so and include ALL vehicles above a specified capacity, if it's
footprint size then a Mondeo is bigger than 110, if it's height then an
MPV is a van and a Defender is a car, according to the people who run
the M6 toll road!!

--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

In news:[email protected],
hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> blithered:
> In message <[email protected]>, MAB
> <[email protected]> writes
>> "Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>> I am sick of being the butt of any politicians "in" moan to gain
>>> votes. The latest will be that we are "taxed off the road" if a
>>> certain party gets in !!
>>> I wonder if their perks ( for the jerks) of large ministerial
>>> auto's and jets will be going down the same road ??
>>> I can understand the arguement for the school run, but surely this
>>> should apply to all cars not just 4x4's, what the hell have we done
>>> ?
>>
>> Don't want to hijack this thread but ....What if all genuine 4x4
>> owners agreed to have their vehicles as a seperate sub group on the
>> general licence and had to take a further off road test before being
>> allowed to drive them and that off road test had to have an element
>> of Green Lane etiquette in it? How many bus run vehicles would be
>> around then? Granted it would effct sales of vehicles but it would
>> show that the damage is caused by others and not us and that we would
>> then be the Good Guys for promoting a way forward.
>>
>> Just a thought:>)
>>
>> MAB
> You, like another similar post earlier, are just subscribing to the
> prejudice. A school run is a school run is a school run, regardless of
> whether it's an X5, mondeo or whatever. If you object on engine size
> then say so and include ALL vehicles above a specified capacity, if
> it's footprint size then a Mondeo is bigger than 110, if it's height
> then an MPV is a van and a Defender is a car, according to the people
> who run the M6 toll road!!

Make the little b'stds walk!!

--
UR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP
If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

On Thursday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "David_LLAMA4x4" wrote:

> Why are the press not hounding this Govt. out of power? They did the last
> one! And if they did who on earth would we pick to succeed them at the
> moment!

Looking at the ethnic diversity of the local W.I., here in this patch of
rural Lincolnshire, it'd be more than my lunch was worth to vote for
Howard's mob, so I reckon I'd have to vote Lib-Dem again.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:25:21 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>>End of speach! Soapboxes should be racing not stood on I suppose!
>>
>Exactly. Stick to talking on things you know something about, and which
>is relevant to alt.fan.landrover.

What an empty and p'raps boring group this would be should people
follow your jackbooted assertion.

On or around Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:03:10 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:25:21 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>>>End of speach! Soapboxes should be racing not stood on I suppose!
>>>
>>Exactly. Stick to talking on things you know something about, and which
>>is relevant to alt.fan.landrover.
>
>What an empty and p'raps boring group this would be should people
>follow your jackbooted assertion.

aye, 'twould be boring. variety is the wossname of thing.

and besides, I tend to agree - the hunting thing is just a smoke and mirrors
exercise to distract the gullible from the state of the country in the
run-up to el presidente Bliar's re-election campaign.

On or around Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:51:44 +0100 (BST),
[email protected] ("David G. Bell") enlightened us thusly:

>On Thursday, in article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] "David_LLAMA4x4" wrote:
>
>> Why are the press not hounding this Govt. out of power? They did the last
>> one! And if they did who on earth would we pick to succeed them at the
>> moment!
>
>Looking at the ethnic diversity of the local W.I., here in this patch of
>rural Lincolnshire, it'd be more than my lunch was worth to vote for
>Howard's mob, so I reckon I'd have to vote Lib-Dem again.

bugger them, they're proposing punitive taxes on 4x4s. I was going to send
'em a spicy message about not jumping on bandwagons, but the feedback page
thing on their website's broken, so I sent email complaining about that
instead.

Luckily I saved the text I was gonna send 'em, so if I find a way of sending
it...

meanwhile, you can read it here:

<quote>

I gather it will be LibDem policy to apply punitive taxes to "large 4x4s",
in the event of the party being in a position enact such things. You'll not
get my support for jumping on the anti-4x4 bandwagon alongside such shallow
thinkers as Mr. Livingstone of London.

I use a "large 4x4", among other uses, to transport up to 7 children at a
time from remote areas to school or to meet the school bus. Rest assured
that if I get hit by increased road taxes, I will pass the increase on to
the local authority, who pay me for this work, and they will then have to
raise the council tax in order to fund it. What goes around comes around.

You'd do better to consider the use to which all large cars (including 4x4s)
are put, and whether they are needed for what they're doing.

Some attention to stopping people from driving their precious darling kids
to school half a mile away wouldn't go amiss either, schemes such as
"walking buses" have been tried in some areas with considerable success.

</quote>

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:06:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>and besides, I tend to agree - the hunting thing is just a smoke and mirrors
>exercise to distract the gullible from the state of the country in the
>run-up to el presidente Bliar's re-election campaign.

It don't matter who you vote for, the fecking Government always get
in.

'sides, not many people realise that there's actually no such word in
the Oxford English Dictionary of "gullible".


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:10:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Some attention to stopping people from driving their precious darling kids
>to school half a mile away wouldn't go amiss either, schemes such as
>"walking buses" have been tried in some areas with considerable success.

Indeed, and such a strategy also helps to reduce these little darlings
becoming socially insular, overweight little brats....

Talking of socially insular, overweight grown-up brats...

Just before going off to float the Warwickshire ring for a week I was
chatting to a neighbour whilst clearing some stuff out of Grumble
following Peterborough. A young lad, prolly 4 or 5 years old appeared
by the truck. I asked him if he was lost? - no response, I asked him
where mummy or daddy was?, no response... Suddenly a woman appeared,
running down the road screaming (very loudly, I may add) "GET AWAY
FROM MY CHILD, GET AWAY FROM MY CHILD!". She snatched him from the
pavement not 6 foot away from me with a force that could easily have
broken the poor little sods arm.

Bemused, we watched as she literally flew down the road (toward the
dead end), threw him into a new(ish) BMW 'people carrier' type thing,
underwent the now common ritual of trying to reverse up the road,
giving up, doing a 15 point turn, hitting the curb a few times before
roaring up to the end of the road (10 yards), going on a further 20 or
so yards, parking up (badly) and going into a house there...

Ann (neighbour) and I shared a moment of slow head shaking. Some
people, we concluded, are simply mad.


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, David_LLAMA4x4
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Further to my above posting I have just seen on the news that the MP who
has
> >put the hunting bill up for discussion again has had to cancel 2
appearances
> >because of pro-hunt demonstrations. He says he is surprised that they
have
> >nothing better to do with their time than to demonstrate!!!!
> > Surely he has better things to discuss in Parliament than foxes - wjat
> >about Iraq? The faultering economy? Immigration? Train network collapse?
and
> >that isn't even touching on health and education!!!!
> >
> > I am not posting to support humting - each will have their own view on
> >this. I am posting to highlight whay muppets we have in parliament at the
> >moment! They doubt we should be allowed to demonstration despite being a
> >democracy. They skirt any awkward issues and they threaten to miss out
> >stages of Govornment by bypassing the Lords! And all of this from a party
> >who only got 1 in 4 of the populations vote.
> > Are we allowing a backdoor precedent of a Big Brother society to rule
us??
> >
> >End of speach! Soapboxes should be racing not stood on I suppose!
> >
> Exactly. Stick to talking on things you know something about, and which
> is relevant to alt.fan.landrover.
> --
> hugh
> Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

Relevance to the NG I accept your comments though it is not me who started
the thread. But why am I not qualified to talk about politics - what is
there to say I know nothing about it?
On the subject of qualifications and Govt. - politicions don't need any and
yet they are allowed to run a country! Try setting up as a Doctor or MOT
tester without the correct qualification and you won't be allowed.

MPs are not always right. They are not always the best informed or
qualified on matters that they take decisions on. It is our job to question
them and keep our democracy alive.

David
LLAMA 4x4
www.llama4x4.co.uk

In news:[email protected],
Mother" <"@ {mother} @ <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> blithered:
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:10:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Some attention to stopping people from driving their precious
>> darling kids to school half a mile away wouldn't go amiss either,
>> schemes such as "walking buses" have been tried in some areas with
>> considerable success.
>
> Indeed, and such a strategy also helps to reduce these little darlings
> becoming socially insular, overweight little brats....
>
> Talking of socially insular, overweight grown-up brats...
>
> Just before going off to float the Warwickshire ring for a week I was
> chatting to a neighbour whilst clearing some stuff out of Grumble
> following Peterborough. A young lad, prolly 4 or 5 years old appeared
> by the truck. I asked him if he was lost? - no response, I asked him
> where mummy or daddy was?, no response... Suddenly a woman appeared,
> running down the road screaming (very loudly, I may add) "GET AWAY
> FROM MY CHILD, GET AWAY FROM MY CHILD!". She snatched him from the
> pavement not 6 foot away from me with a force that could easily have
> broken the poor little sods arm.
>
> Bemused, we watched as she literally flew down the road (toward the
> dead end), threw him into a new(ish) BMW 'people carrier' type thing,
> underwent the now common ritual of trying to reverse up the road,
> giving up, doing a 15 point turn, hitting the curb a few times before
> roaring up to the end of the road (10 yards), going on a further 20 or
> so yards, parking up (badly) and going into a house there...
>
> Ann (neighbour) and I shared a moment of slow head shaking. Some
> people, we concluded, are simply mad.

Unfortunately that doesn't disqualify them from breeding!

--
UR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP
If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!

hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In message <[email protected]>, MAB
> <[email protected]> writes
> >"Hirsty's" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:<[email protected]>...
> >> I am sick of being the butt of any politicians "in" moan to gain votes. The
> >> latest will be that we are "taxed off the road" if a certain party gets in
> >> !!
> >> I wonder if their perks ( for the jerks) of large ministerial auto's and
> >> jets will be going down the same road ??
> >> I can understand the arguement for the school run, but surely this should
> >> apply to all cars not just 4x4's, what the hell have we done ?
> >
> >Don't want to hijack this thread but ....What if all genuine 4x4
> >owners agreed to have their vehicles as a seperate sub group on the
> >general licence and had to take a further off road test before being
> >allowed to drive them and that off road test had to have an element of
> >Green Lane etiquette in it? How many bus run vehicles would be
> >around then? Granted it would effct sales of vehicles but it would
> >show that the damage is caused by others and not us and that we would
> >then be the Good Guys for promoting a way forward.
> >
> >Just a thought:>)
> >
> >MAB
> You, like another similar post earlier, are just subscribing to the
> prejudice. A school run is a school run is a school run, regardless of
> whether it's an X5, mondeo or whatever. If you object on engine size
> then say so and include ALL vehicles above a specified capacity, if it's
> footprint size then a Mondeo is bigger than 110, if it's height then an
> MPV is a van and a Defender is a car, according to the people who run
> the M6 toll road!!

I am a user and owner of two of the marques finest. What I am
suggesting is to force, cajoll, frighten, or otherwise enforce drivers
of all 4x4's to recognise the ability of their vehicles and to use
them appropriately. It is my belief that if required to go through
extra driver training the VAST majority would not be 4x4 drivers.
This would leave only those that are prepared to raise their driving
skills to meet the abilities of the vehicles they own/use and I would
anticipate, as I said before, that some element of off road driving
skills including respect and appreciation of the countryside would be
included. This I beleive would go some way to appease the anti 4x4
lobby as a positive step to resolving what is, whichever side of the
fence you are on, a problem. Unless someone makes a move the
situation will not improve and, as there are more of them than there
are of us, they will win.

Please re read my posts as at no time have I mentioned engine size,
fuel economy, type of fuel, size of vehicle, or seating capacity. My
reference to 'bus run' was an attempt at levity, totally failed on
yourself unfortunately, to highlight the number of drivers that would
not want to, or be capable of, completing my proposed extra driving
test.

This proposal is not without presidence as you can not drive a lorry
over 7.5 tons, a minibus carrying children, an electic vehicle etc
without a test. These restrictions have been in force for a great
many years.

MAB

On 23 Sep 2004 08:36:56 -0700, [email protected] (MAB) wrote:

>It is my belief that if required to go through
>extra driver training the VAST majority would not be 4x4 drivers.

It is my belief that if required to undergo the EXISTING driving test
again, the VAST majority would not be drivers...


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info

On or around Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:01:16 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:06:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>and besides, I tend to agree - the hunting thing is just a smoke and mirrors
>>exercise to distract the gullible from the state of the country in the
>>run-up to el presidente Bliar's re-election campaign.
>
>It don't matter who you vote for, the fecking Government always get
>in.
>
>'sides, not many people realise that there's actually no such word in
>the Oxford English Dictionary of "gullible".

I'm not falling for that one...

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:01:16 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
> @"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:06:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>and besides, I tend to agree - the hunting thing is just a smoke and
>>>mirrors exercise to distract the gullible from the state of the country
>>>in the run-up to el presidente Bliar's re-election campaign.
>>
>>It don't matter who you vote for, the fecking Government always get
>>in.
>>
>>'sides, not many people realise that there's actually no such word in
>>the Oxford English Dictionary of "gullible".
>
> I'm not falling for that one...

Twice...


--
The email address above is real.

http://www.geekstuff.tv/Landies/

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:39:03 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:26:28 GMT, Alex <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>>Well, as a middle/lower class person, I'd love a new Rangie...
>>
>>Funny, I had you posted as much lower class than that....
>
>Unlike you to confuse fashion with style...

I didn't know you had either....

Alex

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:10:11 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Some attention to stopping people from driving their precious darling
kids
> >to school half a mile away wouldn't go amiss either, schemes such as
> >"walking buses" have been tried in some areas with considerable success.
>
> Indeed, and such a strategy also helps to reduce these little darlings
> becoming socially insular, overweight little brats....
>
> Talking of socially insular, overweight grown-up brats...
>
> Just before going off to float the Warwickshire ring for a week I was
> chatting to a neighbour whilst clearing some stuff out of Grumble
> following Peterborough. A young lad, prolly 4 or 5 years old appeared
> by the truck. I asked him if he was lost? - no response, I asked him
> where mummy or daddy was?, no response... Suddenly a woman appeared,
> running down the road screaming (very loudly, I may add) "GET AWAY
> FROM MY CHILD, GET AWAY FROM MY CHILD!". She snatched him from the
> pavement not 6 foot away from me with a force that could easily have
> broken the poor little sods arm.
>
> Bemused, we watched as she literally flew down the road (toward the
> dead end), threw him into a new(ish) BMW 'people carrier' type thing,
> underwent the now common ritual of trying to reverse up the road,
> giving up, doing a 15 point turn, hitting the curb a few times before
> roaring up to the end of the road (10 yards), going on a further 20 or
> so yards, parking up (badly) and going into a house there...
>

That is one of the many reasons that I am beginning to consider ignoring
kids wandering around aimlessly. Couple that with the current trend to bang
in PI claims (hello your kid fell over in the middle of the road....) and
other worse problems....


In this day and age where people take most of their information from the
sensationalist hype spoon fed through the gross media that is the dubious
side of the tabloid press, it begins to worry me what the country is coming
too....

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an
offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk