VCU Torque test results

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jjtech56 said:
ive monitored this site in 2 days..17 complaints from members over the answers they get...you at war with wammer and grumygit...4 topics ive tried to get into but havent has there arguing...soo ill disappear and let the babies play with the dummies, take a look at your transcript...and be ashamed how childish you are trying to outpoint like children...im out of this prattzone...ps..ive had a lot of messages supporting my view you three are a load of children and should be banned
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This sounds exactly like several other dummy spitting noobs that have arrived guns blazing and laying into the first senior member that comments.....right down to the supposed messages of support.

Didn't you get bored with flouncing out the door (repeatedly) last time? :p
 
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jjtech56 said:
ive monitored this site in 2 days..17 complaints from members over the answers they get...you at war with wammer and grumygit...4 topics ive tried to get into but havent has there arguing...soo ill disappear and let the babies play with the dummies, take a look at your transcript...and be ashamed how childish you are trying to outpoint like children...im out of this prattzone...ps..ive had a lot of messages supporting my view you three are a load of children and should be banned
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2 days in the life of LZ ...
and you say we all fight like kids in a playground ...

You didn't bother to comment on the messages of support and advice for on going mechanical problems ... or pics of electrical items ...some lost to the mists of time ...

or the love and kindness as some of our members lose loved ones ... or under go undignified medical procedures ... we are there for them ... yes, in real life too ...

This is a community ... and as such it has it's spats and dummy spitting ... but if called upon there is an upswelling ..(stop sniggering at the back) ... of help and advice ...
So if you want to stay ... you are welcome, but you will have to take us as you find us ...
and yes, twunt is a crackin' word ...:D:D
 
GrumpyGel said:
@wammers I presume that the Man With Hats is deliberately pulling you up here because of your attitude towards most people on most threads. You keep referencing the need for people to be educated by you - he knows what he is talking about on this subject - just as you do. There is a point of difference here, and both the VCU and IRD serve their purpose in Freelander's potato/potato/4WD/AWD system. The way I see it, is that a potato needs some form of distributing power to 4 wheels not 2 - the only component I can see in the Freelander that does this is the IRD. The VCU will stop/lessen distribution to 2 of those wheels in some circumstances.

As I've said before, you do know an awful lot of stuff - and I'm sure you have helped a lot of people on this forum - but you not perfect - nobody can be - and you do make errors yourself that need educating...





This last statement is categorically wrong. It may be the generally accepted spiel on how the VCU works in Freelander, and it is true that if the fronts lose traction the VCU will drive the rears 'properly' (what ever that means) - but at motorway speeds with no loss of traction the VCU will also be providing that same 'proper' locked (ish) connection to the rears. The VCU will only be 'loose' at slow speeds and in a straight line and if the tyres are all pretty well matched.

This was pointed out by @jamesmartin a few days ago.
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Total and utter nonsense, on normal roads or motorways for that matter 95% or so of the power is going through the front wheels. The only thing that generates any drive at all to the rear wheels, is the fact that the front and rear differential ratios are different to keep the VCU excited. The front prop turns slightly faster than the rear one to excite the VCU. If the front and rear differential ratios were the same there would be no drive at all to the rear wheels until the fronts lost traction. In that case, say setting off in sand, the drive to the rear wheels would be delayed until the VCU got hot enough to lock, giving the front wheels time to bog down before any drive was transmitted to the rear wheels. Under off road conditions the only time there will be anything like 50/50 power distribution front to rear, is if one or both of the front wheels lost traction causing the VCU to lock. The IRD unit is basically the front differential and axle with a power take off to feed the drive for the rear axle. That is correct information. Like it or not.
 
wammers said:
Total and utter nonsense, on normal roads or motorways for that matter 95% or so of the power is going through the front wheels. The only thing that generates any drive at all to the rear wheels, is the fact that the front and rear differential ratios are different to keep the VCU excited. The front prop turns slightly faster than the rear one to excite the VCU. If the front and rear differential ratios were the same there would be no drive at all to the rear wheels until the fronts lost traction. In that case, say setting off in sand, the drive to the rear wheels would be delayed until the VCU got hot enough to lock, giving the front wheels time to bog down before any drive was transmitted to the rear wheels. Under off road conditions the only time there will be anything like 50/50 power distribution front to rear, is if one or both of the front wheels lost traction causing the VCU to lock. The IRD unit is basically the front differential and axle with a power take off to feed the drive for the rear axle. That is correct information. Like it or not.
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there is allways some drive through a vcu however a fraction of what possible ,which is the point in using one instead of a simple dog clutch as in the series vehicles ie 2wd till selected ,compared to front biased 4wd until wheel spin
 
jamesmartin said:
there is allways some drive through a vcu however a fraction of what possible ,which is the point in using one instead of a simple dog clutch as in the series vehicles ie 2wd till selected ,compared to front biased 4wd until wheel spin
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I think that is what i said James. There has to be because of the front and rear prop speed difference. The higher the prop speed difference was the more drive there would be. But that is engineered to be minimal to keep the VCU warm or excited if you will, so that more drive to the rear wheels is available almost instantly if the front loses traction. In which case the front prop speed will be far greater than the rear prop speed causing the VCU to lock and provide proper drive to the rear wheels. It could i suppose be described as automatic four wheel drive as opposed selectable four wheel drive. The problem arises, when because of the required front to rear prop speed difference needed as described, over time the VCU fails and locks up or becomes very stiff, which because of the different differential ratios front and rear, there being little or no slip to compensate because of the failed VCU, can cause mechanical damage to the transmission. It is very important for any Freelander 1 owner to know that his VCU is in good condition.
 
Last two posts are mostly right but talk of the vcu needing to be warm is misleading. I drove my freelander 20 yards from cold into soft sand and the 4wd was instant. It doesn't need to be kept warm to work. I suspect the ratios being as they are has more to do with handling and stability. From experience I can say that a fwd freelander handles like crap.
 
Alibro said:
Last two posts are mostly right but talk of the vcu needing to be warm is misleading. I drove my freelander 20 yards from cold into soft sand and the 4wd was instant. It doesn't need to be kept warm to work. I suspect the ratios being as they are has more to do with handling and stability. From experience I can say that a fwd freelander handles like crap.
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+1 They are of the same opinion ,freelander was not designed for FWD
 
Alibro said:
Last two posts are mostly right but talk of the vcu needing to be warm is misleading. I drove my freelander 20 yards from cold into soft sand and the 4wd was instant. It doesn't need to be kept warm to work. I suspect the ratios being as they are has more to do with handling and stability. From experience I can say that a fwd freelander handles like crap.
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Try sitting in soft sand and setting off from cold.
 
Alibro said:
Last two posts are mostly right but talk of the vcu needing to be warm is misleading. I drove my freelander 20 yards from cold into soft sand and the 4wd was instant. It doesn't need to be kept warm to work. I suspect the ratios being as they are has more to do with handling and stability. From experience I can say that a fwd freelander handles like crap.
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Slight drive to rear because of prop differential speed also helps with under steer.
 
Alibro said:
Last two posts are mostly right but talk of the vcu needing to be warm is misleading. I drove my freelander 20 yards from cold into soft sand and the 4wd was instant. It doesn't need to be kept warm to work. I suspect the ratios being as they are has more to do with handling and stability. From experience I can say that a fwd freelander handles like crap.
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no it doesnt just a large enough differential in speed ,try turning a cold vcu fast with a bar
 
wammers said:
Try sitting in soft sand and setting off from cold.
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I have fished from the beach for 3 or 4 hours, packed up and jumped in the Freelander and it drives off fine. I don't know if all sand is the same - but I know with my D1 when I drove this beach as soon as I hit it it basically got bogged down. It had to go into diff lock to drive it - which it did fine, but so does (did :( ) the Freelander.
 
jamesmartin said:
no it doesnt just a large enough differential in speed ,try turning a cold vcu fast with a bar
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As a VCU warms up, they transmit less torque. Then when they reach the tipping point temperature (actually pressure) of 'hump' mode it will rapidly transmit a lot more torque. That's from generic research of viscous couplings, I'm sure Freelander is the same. So it could be said that if you start from cold, the VCU will get you going, but then it'll struggle for a bit before giving good traction again. However, these temp changes are rapid in themselves (I believe) - figures banded around about Freelander being like 1/4 or 1/8 of a wheel revolution to reach hump mode - which will equate to about 1/2 a turn of the VCU. However is that from 'warm' to 'hump' (as wammers is indicating) or 'cold' to 'hump' (as experience seems to show).
 
GrumpyGel said:
I have fished from the beach for 3 or 4 hours, packed up and jumped in the Freelander and it drives off fine. I don't know if all sand is the same - but I know with my D1 when I drove this beach as soon as I hit it it basically got bogged down. It had to go into diff lock to drive it - which it did fine, but so does (did :( ) the Freelander.
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Maybe if that is the case VCU needs checking. The idea behind the front prop rotating quicker is to excite the VCU so lock comes quicker. Of course if the VCU is tight lock will also come quicker. Just a thought. ;);)
 
wammers said:
Maybe if that is the case VCU needs checking. The idea behind the front prop rotating quicker is to excite the VCU so lock comes quicker. Of course if the VCU is tight lock will also come quicker. Just a thought. ;);)
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been a fwd feel 4wd was the greater requirement as it was explained to us and as it stands seems the best answer ive heard , these were lr engineers we worked with not dealer mechanics
 
wammers said:
Try sitting in soft sand and setting off from cold.
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Sorry I thought I just said that. Drove approx 20 yards at 5 to 10 mph into soft sand. Soft enough to sink in over 6 inches. Tied a leveller to the tow bar and drove around the sand school flattening it.
At no point did I loose traction and it pulled away as if 4wd was permanent.
Bare in mind this was with my home brew refurbished vcu so probably no where near as good as the real thing.
Note after a few minutes my land leveller (a pallet) was full of sand and VERY heavy but the car never looked like stopping.
 
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jamesmartin said:
been a fwd feel 4wd was the greater requirement as it was explained to us and as it stands seems the best answer ive heard , these were lr engineers we worked with not dealer mechanics
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Makes more sense than any other suggestions here. They probably wanted to make it repairable like the VW one but the bean counters had their wicked way instead.
 
wammers said:
Maybe if that is the case VCU needs checking. The idea behind the front prop rotating quicker is to excite the VCU so lock comes quicker. Of course if the VCU is tight lock will also come quicker. Just a thought. ;);)
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You could have a point - because my IRD did ultimately get trashed.

At the time I didn't know much about how the transmission worked. However, there was no noticeable tightness in reverse (although Alibro's experience shows that's not definitive and possibly interpretive). It did kick up a bit of gravel turning on our drive - but no scuffing on sealed surfaces. When it went - I'm sure it was due to a tyre losing some pressure - it had felt a bit different for 2 days of high mileage driving on twisty mountain roads leading up to 'the event'. So I'm sure that was the cause of it going at that time - but it may also have had a tightening VCU - I think not - but can't guarantee not.

Talking service life - the car was a little over the 70K miles at the time - but if there's also a 5 year service life - then way over that.

I rebuilt as 2WD - but now have a 4WD IRD to fit - it will be interesting to see how it behaves with a VCU I know to be in good condition.
 
GrumpyGel said:
You could have a point - because my IRD did ultimately get trashed.

At the time I didn't know much about how the transmission worked. However, there was no noticeable tightness in reverse (although Alibro's experience shows that's not definitive and possibly interpretive). It did kick up a bit of gravel turning on our drive - but no scuffing on sealed surfaces. When it went - I'm sure it was due to a tyre losing some pressure - it had felt a bit different for 2 days of high mileage driving on twisty mountain roads leading up to 'the event'. So I'm sure that was the cause of it going at that time - but it may also have had a tightening VCU - I think not - but can't guarantee not.

Talking service life - the car was a little over the 70K miles at the time - but if there's also a 5 year service life - then way over that.

I rebuilt as 2WD - but now have a 4WD IRD to fit - it will be interesting to see how it behaves with a VCU I know to be in good condition.
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My experience of fwd is with a k series so a bit more hp than yours (if less torque) and lighter. I found it under steered everywhere and spun the wheels at every junction. Then again I was probably driving like a hooligan.
I found the engine moved about a lot too making it unpleasant to drive and this was with new tie bushes too.
 
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