V8's n stuff

On the way back from malvern, my 101 started running like a bag of spanners.
Its been playing up a lot lately. To begin with, periodically you would be
going up through the gears and suddenly find yourself with no power or revs.
The only way I can describe it is as if you had pulled the choke out. This
would only happen occasionally. It would also misfire on decelleration.
Anyway, last night it started this again, except it got worse, coughing to
get up hills, I'm sur it was only running on 5 cylinders some of the time.
It sounded awful, was lumpy and had no power. De celleration was even worse.

Now I'm out of my depth with petrol engines, give me a diesel any day to
work on! So I'm a bit lost as to waht might be causing this. My first
thought is to replace the points, condensor and plugs. I'm also wondering
whether to buy a set of magnecor leads (am wondering whether one or more are
breaking down). Am I looking in the right place, or barking up the wrong
tree entirely?

Also am toying with the idea of a electronic ignition convertion from
newtronics, esp on 101fc R/B that's been gassed, any thoughts??

Graham

In message <[email protected]>
"Graham G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On the way back from malvern, my 101 started running like a bag of spanners.
> Its been playing up a lot lately. To begin with, periodically you would be
> going up through the gears and suddenly find yourself with no power or revs.
> The only way I can describe it is as if you had pulled the choke out. This
> would only happen occasionally. It would also misfire on decelleration.
> Anyway, last night it started this again, except it got worse, coughing to
> get up hills, I'm sur it was only running on 5 cylinders some of the time.
> It sounded awful, was lumpy and had no power. De celleration was even worse.
>
> Now I'm out of my depth with petrol engines, give me a diesel any day to
> work on! So I'm a bit lost as to waht might be causing this. My first
> thought is to replace the points, condensor and plugs. I'm also wondering
> whether to buy a set of magnecor leads (am wondering whether one or more are
> breaking down). Am I looking in the right place, or barking up the wrong
> tree entirely?
>
> Also am toying with the idea of a electronic ignition convertion from
> newtronics, esp on 101fc R/B that's been gassed, any thoughts??
>
> Graham
>
>

I think you may be in the right area - but it does also sound like
fuel starvation as happened on mine.
Remove the filter element (just for testing purposes) from the fuel
filter - does that make any odds? Also have a look round for in-line
fuel filters (mine had one hidden under the floor where it could
not be seen!) - if there are any, change them - they can look
pristine but be partially blocked.

That should take care of this afternoon and avoid having to visit
Granny.......

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On or around Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:51:52 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "Graham G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>I think you may be in the right area - but it does also sound like
>fuel starvation as happened on mine.
>Remove the filter element (just for testing purposes) from the fuel
>filter - does that make any odds? Also have a look round for in-line
>fuel filters (mine had one hidden under the floor where it could
>not be seen!) - if there are any, change them - they can look
>pristine but be partially blocked.
>

since it's on carbs, the symptoms could match one dodgy carb or one carb
starving.

do they have oil dampers in 'em? if so, check there's oil; lack of oil in
the top of carbs which should have such is a source of all manner of ills.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count,
and those who can't" (Anon)

"Graham G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On the way back from malvern, my 101 started running like a bag of
spanners.
> Its been playing up a lot lately. To begin with, periodically you would be
> going up through the gears and suddenly find yourself with no power or
revs.
> The only way I can describe it is as if you had pulled the choke out. This
> would only happen occasionally. It would also misfire on decelleration.
> Anyway, last night it started this again, except it got worse, coughing to
> get up hills, I'm sur it was only running on 5 cylinders some of the time.
> It sounded awful, was lumpy and had no power. De celleration was even
worse.
>

Has it got stromberg carbs? If so may be worth checking the rubber
diaphragms.



>
Now I'm out of my depth with petrol engines, give me a diesel any day to
> work on!

Haven't accidently given it a dose of diesel, have you?!!


For excellent V8 help it's worth signing up to
http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum/default.asp (free).

Andy

> I think you may be in the right area - but it does also sound like
> fuel starvation as happened on mine.
> Remove the filter element (just for testing purposes) from the fuel
> filter - does that make any odds? Also have a look round for in-line
> fuel filters (mine had one hidden under the floor where it could
> not be seen!) - if there are any, change them - they can look
> pristine but be partially blocked.

Wondered if it might have been fuel. With diesels it generally is, however
with my limited experience of petrols, it has always seemed to be
electrical. Will give it a whirl. Thanks.


> That should take care of this afternoon and avoid having to visit
> Granny.......

Only just got in from work (3pm) so both are out. A cold beer in the garden
might be the order of things shortly!

Graham

> since it's on carbs, the symptoms could match one dodgy carb or one carb
> starving.

> do they have oil dampers in 'em? if so, check there's oil; lack of oil in
> the top of carbs which should have such is a source of all manner of ills.

Er, not sure, as I said petrols really aren't my thing. Call me stupid (I'm
waiting) but how would I know? Any particular type of oil needed?

Give me a tractor engine any day. Would have stripped and re-built it by now
)

Graham

> Has it got stromberg carbs? If so may be worth checking the rubber
> diaphragms

???? Pass, like I said, treat me like a novice on this one.

> Now I'm out of my depth with petrol engines, give me a diesel any day to
>> work on!
>
> Haven't accidently given it a dose of diesel, have you?!!

You're the second person to suggest that, but no, deffinately not. As I said
this has been an ongoing problem that appears to have got worse. My first
instinct was points. I know from experience what an effect worn points can
have. I'm fine with nice simple things like that, I can even cope with the
whole spark plug and ignition thing, but carbs and diagnosis with petrol
engines and i'm affraid it might as well be a foreighn language. I've taken
lawnmower carbs to bits to clean them, but thats about as far as it goes.
Generally take Martyn's approach and get a "warren" if carbs are involved.

Graham

"Graham G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On the way back from malvern, my 101 started running like a bag of
> spanners. Its been playing up a lot lately. To begin with, periodically
> you would be going up through the gears and suddenly find yourself with no
> power or revs. The only way I can describe it is as if you had pulled the
> choke out. This would only happen occasionally. It would also misfire on
> decelleration. Anyway, last night it started this again, except it got
> worse, coughing to get up hills, I'm sur it was only running on 5
> cylinders some of the time. It sounded awful, was lumpy and had no power.
> De celleration was even worse.
>
> Now I'm out of my depth with petrol engines, give me a diesel any day to
> work on! So I'm a bit lost as to waht might be causing this. My first
> thought is to replace the points, condensor and plugs. I'm also wondering
> whether to buy a set of magnecor leads (am wondering whether one or more
> are breaking down). Am I looking in the right place, or barking up the
> wrong tree entirely?
>
> Also am toying with the idea of a electronic ignition convertion from
> newtronics, esp on 101fc R/B that's been gassed, any thoughts??
>
> Graham

I find this on my Ambi and now I'm looking towards two potential causes.

Having finally got the dizzy bolted down tight (the Ambi compressor
prevented it being tightened previously) I've now slowly begun replacing the
odd spark plug lead. I fitted a full set and started to get symptoms like
yours. The main give away was that once the engine is off remove one lead at
a time and see if it's any worse.

Does she get worse when hot? This is probably the leads breaking down due to
the heat.

The biggest give away was running the engine in the dark with the lid off.
The thing lit up like a christmas tree! I replaced two or three of the new
leads with come from a donor engine that were as old as the ark and we've
been relatively ok since.

I now have to sort the O rings on the carbs as they are creating a strong
pong of petrol and I'm sure they are leaking so it's pointless trying any
further tunning until thats sorted. Find out what carbs you have. The Haynes
Range rover classic manual should assist with this or check to see if they
are the same as the standard 101 ones on the free to download mannuals.

I'm saving coppers for the dogs wotnot leads as we speak.

Also worth checking vacume advance hoses haven't come adrift or perished.

Lee D

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Also worth checking vacume advance hoses haven't come adrift or perished.
>
> Lee D

Did you have the lid off at Malvern? Could someone have leaned on the dizzy?

Also check the inside of the dizzy cap.. they need to be clinically clean..
The run may have dislodged something pooey.

It could also be the cam shaft on the way out but I'd expect that to be a
more gradual symptom.

Lee D

"Graham G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>As I said this has been an ongoing problem that appears to have got worse.

If you can see the tops the Strombergs usually have Stromberg or Zenith on
them. If they are, the diaphragm controls the fuel/air mixture for all
engine speeds - if the diaphragm on one carb has torn it will affect 4
cylinders, hence the feeling it is only running on about 5. The faulty carb
will usually be reasonable at tickover but as the engine load increases it
gets worse.

Also, it can start as a small tear in the rubber and grow over a few weeks.

If your v8 has SU carbs instead then forget all the above as they don't use
diaphragms!

If you can get the plugs out, that might tell you something. If any are wet
they have been getting fuel but no spark. If they look OK they may have been
sparking but have no fuel to burn.

I think you need to work out when the problem occurs whether:
all cylinders are struggling - possibly fuel supply (pump/filter),
coil/points/condenser ie something common to all pots.
4 cylinders are struggling - one of the carbs - each carb feeds 4 cylinders
independently.
1 cylinder missing - plug, lead or distributor cap.

I'm not sure about accessibility on 101's so can't suggest where to start
first, but ignition bits are really service items anyway so there's no
effort wasted there. Carb diaphragms are very easy to change and even easier
to check, you don't have to remove the carbs from the engine.

I've no idea why, but I've noticed on my v8 if one plug stops firing the
power seems to drop to about 25 per cent of normal! On a 4 cylinder it only
seems to drop to about 75 per cent!

Andy Fox
110 V8

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:25:30 +0100, "Graham G" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> do they have oil dampers in 'em? if so, check there's oil; lack of oil in
>> the top of carbs which should have such is a source of all manner of ills.
>
>Er, not sure, as I said petrols really aren't my thing. Call me stupid (I'm
>waiting) but how would I know? Any particular type of oil needed?

Look at the top of the carbs, there's a little black 'bung' in the
top. Unscrew this and feel for some resistance as you pull it out.
If there isn't any, put some oil in the pot (engine oil is alright)
then replace the damper. This is more an issue with LPG drying the
pots out - but could easily be an issue for your petrol engine.

So far as the filter on the fuel pump is concerned, yes, check it.

The pump is in the fuel tank, so you'll need to get access from the
hatch in the back. Lift the pump out, you'll see a 'sock' on it, this
is the filter. Take it off, clean it and get a small piece of metal
(coathanger type is fine), bend it into a 'V' to keep the sock 'open',
then replace it.

Leads, points, plugs and coil can also need attention. I would go for
electronic ignition - luminition or newtronics are pretty much the
same - and the better the spark, the better the running.

I've got magnecors, expensive but worth it IMO.

> Look at the top of the carbs, there's a little black 'bung' in the
> top. Unscrew this and feel for some resistance as you pull it out.
> If there isn't any, put some oil in the pot (engine oil is alright)
> then replace the damper. This is more an issue with LPG drying the
> pots out - but could easily be an issue for your petrol engine.

cheers, will try that.

> So far as the filter on the fuel pump is concerned, yes, check it.
>
> The pump is in the fuel tank, so you'll need to get access from the
> hatch in the back. Lift the pump out, you'll see a 'sock' on it, this
> is the filter. Take it off, clean it and get a small piece of metal
> (coathanger type is fine), bend it into a 'V' to keep the sock 'open',
> then replace it.

That sounds like a right pig to do! I'll add it to the check list though.
Process of elimination though. Will start with the electrical bits first I
think.

> Leads, points, plugs and coil can also need attention. I would go for
> electronic ignition - luminition or newtronics are pretty much the
> same - and the better the spark, the better the running.

hmmm, might have to order a kit then. What does it consist of?

> I've got magnecors, expensive but worth it IMO.

Red or blue?? Who is a good supplier? Found one online who specialise in
spark plugs doing a blue set delivered for £81 or a red set for £91. Figured
the blue would probably be sufficient.

Graham

> If you can see the tops the Strombergs usually have Stromberg or Zenith on
> them. If they are, the diaphragm controls the fuel/air mixture for all
> engine speeds - if the diaphragm on one carb has torn it will affect 4
> cylinders, hence the feeling it is only running on about 5. The faulty
> carb
> will usually be reasonable at tickover but as the engine load increases it
> gets worse.
>
> Also, it can start as a small tear in the rubber and grow over a few
> weeks.
>
> If your v8 has SU carbs instead then forget all the above as they don't
> use
> diaphragms!

Recon they are SUs, but wouldn't like to stake my life on it.

> If you can get the plugs out, that might tell you something. If any are
> wet
> they have been getting fuel but no spark. If they look OK they may have
> been
> sparking but have no fuel to burn.

Good thinking, never gave that a thought, it would be like adjusting the
mixture in a chainsaw.

> I think you need to work out when the problem occurs whether:
> all cylinders are struggling - possibly fuel supply (pump/filter),
> coil/points/condenser ie something common to all pots.
> 4 cylinders are struggling - one of the carbs - each carb feeds 4
> cylinders
> independently.
> 1 cylinder missing - plug, lead or distributor cap.
>
> I'm not sure about accessibility on 101's so can't suggest where to start
> first, but ignition bits are really service items anyway so there's no
> effort wasted there. Carb diaphragms are very easy to change and even
> easier
> to check, you don't have to remove the carbs from the engine.

I'll start there, trouble is, do I buy the electric kit or the points to
begin with? ...prob elec kit...

Cheers

Graham

> I find this on my Ambi and now I'm looking towards two potential causes.
>
> Having finally got the dizzy bolted down tight (the Ambi compressor
> prevented it being tightened previously) I've now slowly begun replacing
> the odd spark plug lead. I fitted a full set and started to get symptoms
> like yours. The main give away was that once the engine is off remove one
> lead at a time and see if it's any worse.
>
> Does she get worse when hot? This is probably the leads breaking down due
> to the heat.

Definately worse when hot. Not cosistantly worse though if you get my
meaning. Sometimes its ok sometimes not. However, she did get a lot hotter
on the run home than in the morning (weather was roasting), so I guess that
would follow.

> I now have to sort the O rings on the carbs as they are creating a strong
> pong of petrol and I'm sure they are leaking so it's pointless trying any
> further tunning until thats sorted. Find out what carbs you have. The
> Haynes Range rover classic manual should assist with this or check to see
> if they are the same as the standard 101 ones on the free to download
> mannuals.

Trip to halfrauds then.... )

> I'm saving coppers for the dogs wotnot leads as we speak.

They ain't cheap for sure. They were on the list for the rad bod, but looks
like the GS is going to get all the toys first. Hadn't bargained on doing
both of them this side of christmas though (

> Also worth checking vacume advance hoses haven't come adrift or perished.

Are they small pipes off the carbs about 1/4 inch diameter? If so it hasn't
got any! The little tubes the go on are there but the pipes never have been.
They are present on rad bod, but didn't happen to note what they did or
where they went.

Graham

> Did you have the lid off at Malvern? Could someone have leaned on the
> dizzy?

You must be joking, its a proper t##t to get off so it stays on as much as
it can do.

> It could also be the cam shaft on the way out but I'd expect that to be a
> more gradual symptom.

Someone told me that you have to replace them at 60000 miles. Someone else
said he did them once and found it a waste of time and wouldn't do another
one. Both my 101s are getting close to that. I'm hoping the latter bloke is
right.

The rad bod concerns me slightly as it is absolutely gutless, you have to
rev the pants off it to move. However, its been stood for a couple of years
so fingers crossed a fecking good service, elec ign kit, and magnecor leads
will see it right. I can see a trip to see the bank manager coming on...


Graham

On or around Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:26:46 +0000 (UTC), "Graham G"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>Red or blue?? Who is a good supplier? Found one online who specialise in
>spark plugs doing a blue set delivered for £81 or a red set for £91. Figured
>the blue would probably be sufficient.

blue are easier to fit; the red ones, being fatter, don't fit the plastic
clippy thing that the leads clip into.

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:26:46 +0000 (UTC), "Graham G"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >Red or blue?? Who is a good supplier? Found one online who specialise in
> >spark plugs doing a blue set delivered for £81 or a red set for £91. Figured
> >the blue would probably be sufficient.
>
> blue are easier to fit; the red ones, being fatter, don't fit the plastic
> clippy thing that the leads clip into.

<shameless plug>

£76.37 inc VAT and delivery for blue here.....

</shameless plug>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

i reckon a good start would be to get out your timing gun (if you don't have
one, get one right away and go for one of the good induction type ones which
you just slip over the lead instead of putting into series with the lead)
then check the spark on all cylinders, in this case 8.

I have had similar probs with my landy and it was the points. front cylinder
was working perfectly which put me off the scent for a while. then i checked
spark on the rest and that explained things. a very easy thing to check,
rather than pulling apart fuel lines and filters etc. this is the first
thing i check when he starts getting a little stroppy and has saved me a
fair bit of time.

Cheers.

Sam.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:30:36 +0000 (UTC), "Graham G" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I'll start there, trouble is, do I buy the electric kit or the points to
>begin with? ...prob elec kit...

You don't need points with electronic ignition - a part of the kit
replaces them.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:42:00 +0000 (UTC), "Graham G" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I can see a trip to see the bank manager coming on...

Visits increase expotentially with the number of Land Rovers you own,
add a few 101s and the bank will give you your own parking space
outside and send you Christmas Cards...