Traction control 9or lack of it)

I have a 1999 1.8 petrol Freelander, owned for about three months now. After owning it for a few weeks it was apparent that the VCU was, for want of a better word, knackerd. The near side rear tyre wore the outside edge away in less that 2000 miles and the rolling resistance when on full lock, particularly in reverse, was getting very bad. The VCU has now been replaced with a re-engineered component which came with a 12 month warranty. My problem is that since the new part was fitted I have twice got stuck. On each seperate occasion one front wheel has been spinning with apparently no attempt by the TC to stop the wheel spinning thus allowing the power to go to the wheels that were not spinning. On the first occasion it was the near side front and on the second it was the offside front. I have had the brakes serviced with new slave cylinders and shoes to the rear and the fluid has been changed so the brakes should be working well. The ABS light goes out as it should at 5 MPH and the HD appears to work in both first and reverse gear when descending. I was under the impression that the TC, utilising the ABS, would have sorted this issue. Apart from that I am enjoying the little beast a lot.
Any comments or suggestion would be greatly welcomed.

Dave Hoatson said:

Any comments or suggestion would be greatly welcomed.

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I'd edit this bit pronto

:welcome2:

I am up for most 'reasonable' suggestions but I was mostly thinking of my traction control. Made I larf though.

Dave Hoatson said:

I am up for most 'reasonable' suggestions but I was mostly thinking of my traction control. Made I larf though.

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Thats what I thought........


Who says your going to get "reasonable" suggestions

Still at least you have a sense of humour

You say you only had it three months. I'm assuming the VCU was changed under warranty ?

As regards your rear tyre wear....when was the last time your tracking was checked?

I could be wrong but I seem to recall freelanders have a problem in reverse and full lock what ever the condition of the VCU. I say problem.... it's just the way the VCU works that causes this.

so not sure if that really is a traction control issue or not

Thanks for your 'reasonable' comment. I had all the wheel allignment done when I bought the car. This included tracking, camber and caster. Some settings were out but not by a lot. Since the new VCU was fitted the car will pick up drive while in full lock in reverse using only tickover which I understood to be the way of checking the unit is not seizing up. How do you check that there is enough viscosity in the unit for it to be doing its job correctly. With the old VCU in place the car was very good offroad, almost as if it was fitted with a difflock. What I don't understand is why it is spinning just one front wheel when stuck. I thought it was the job of the ABS to control this kind of thing.

Dave Hoatson said:

Thanks for your 'reasonable' comment. I had all the wheel allignment done when I bought the car. This included tracking, camber and caster. Some settings were out but not by a lot. Since the new VCU was fitted the car will pick up drive while in full lock in reverse using only tickover which I understood to be the way of checking the unit is not seizing up. How do you check that there is enough viscosity in the unit for it to be doing its job correctly. With the old VCU in place the car was very good offroad, almost as if it was fitted with a difflock. What I don't understand is why it is spinning just one front wheel when stuck. I thought it was the job of the ABS to control this kind of thing.

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The wheel alignment need not be out by much to cause severe scrubbing.
If however as you say it's not out by enough, then I'd have a damn good look at all the ball joints, suspension and bushes etc on the back axle near side.

I always thought it's the job of the VCU is to prevent wheel spin and the ABS is only for braking i.e stopping a wheel locking up.

As I understand it the VCU is what enables the power to go to the back wheels. The TC is controlled using the ABS hence all the clicking when it is operating. I do not understand why, if the ABS is working correctly, it is not cutting in and stopping the single wheel from is spinning and taking all the power

Dave Hoatson said:

As I understand it the VCU is what enables the power to go to the back wheels. The TC is controlled using the ABS hence all the clicking when it is operating. I do not understand why, if the ABS is working correctly, it is not cutting in and stopping the single wheel from is spinning and taking all the power

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Yes and no

Yes it does allow power to the back wheels but esentially it allows drive to all wheels basically if a front wheel stsrts to spin it is supposed to send drive to the opposite back wheel.

You have three systems ok maybe four

The VCU
ABS
Traction control and
Hill decent

All use a combination of engine and/or brake management systems and sensors to work properly.

I'm not sure but think your low speed wheel spin is probably normal and suspect that only a slightly more aggressive acceleration will solve.

Do all dash warning lights light up and go out as they should?

Assuming they do the only issue I can see would be your tyre wear.

Thanks for the reply. All dashboard warning lights operate as they should and when the TC light illuminates I can hear and feel the ABS working. This is both when on a slippery surface and or with HD engaged.
The tyres are Kumho Venture AT's on 15 inch rims. The front ones are half worn but good tread and the rears are brand new.
I understood that the TC was controlled by the ABS but did not realise that the TC would be controlled by a different sensor. This is something that could be explored as I am sure it is not tyre wear. As I see it even if the front tyres lose grip, whether that be through worn tyres or slippery surface, the TC should make an attempt to control the situation. This did not appear to happen. Might be worth calling by our friends at Roger Young and getting it checked. I will save up!

Traction Control I believe makes use of the ABS circuit and sensors yes but is controlled by your engine management unit.

As i said before

I think your low speed wheel spin is probably normal and suspect that only a slightly more aggressive acceleration will solve the "problem".
I dont think the Traction Control is responsible for your tyre wear.
I believe I made the suggestion that you checked bushes suspension etc I'd also lift that wheel and give it the 9 and 3, 12 and 6 o'clock pull n push.
Then and only then think of taking it to a garage, depending what you find obviously.

Then again at three months ownership is it still in warranty cos if it is......
Just take the fecking thing back n tell em straight, you want em to sort it or give you your money back.

I'm not sure if this applies to YOUR Freelander, but on the FR2, TC will only cut in to stop wheelspin at above 2000rpm. Since the reason (need to build up torque before applying) would also apply to your car, I think that is probably your problem. This goes completely against all normal offroad advice! Try building up revs to 2000 while wheel is spinning and it ought to cut in. There are some videos (FR2 again, but should apply) if you look through in this thread: Freel2.com - View topic - Traction control doesn't

PASTMASTER said:

I'm not sure if this applies to YOUR Freelander, but on the FR2, TC will only cut in to stop wheelspin at above 2000rpm. Since the reason (need to build up torque before applying) would also apply to your car, I think that is probably your problem. This goes completely against all normal offroad advice! Try building up revs to 2000 while wheel is spinning and it ought to cut in. There are some videos (FR2 again, but should apply) if you look through in this thread: Freel2.com - View topic - Traction control doesn't

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Thats what I thought.

Doesn't address the tyre wear problem he has though

Bromsgrove Defender said:

Thats what I thought.

Doesn't address the tyre wear problem he has though

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I thought that was what you thought, all hail to your knowledge :amen:, so I was just adding a bit of backup. Tyre wear, as you say, sounds like tracking or suspension. Years since I had a FR1 and this never happened to me. What I did get was flat spots on the rear tyres, caused by running them a mere 2lb over the recommended pressure (mine was an early one and the initial LR tyre pressure recommendation was wrong), but that's not relevant here... Just blathering on...:blabla:.

PASTMASTER said:

I thought that was what you thought, all hail to your knowledge :amen:, so I was just adding a bit of backup. Tyre wear, as you say, sounds like tracking or suspension. Years since I had a FR1 and this never happened to me. What I did get was flat spots on the rear tyres, caused by running them a mere 2lb over the recommended pressure (mine was an early one and the initial LR tyre pressure recommendation was wrong), but that's not relevant here... Just blathering on...:blabla:.

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Blather away mate

I only have a knowledge of mechanical principles and little experience with Freebies and forgot to add the <<sarcasm>> bit to my "Thats what I thought" post.

Arn't flat spot's on your rear tyres more of an F1 problem than FR1 problem ?

Bromsgrove Defender said:

Arn't flat spot's on your rear tyres more of an F1 problem than FR1 problem ?

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Only if you drive your F1 off road.

No idea what the mechanical cause was - I assumed it was something to do with the variable 4WD cutting in and out - but my tyre man had never seen anything like it. All I had noticed was that the tyres were getting really noisy. Switching to the lower tyre pressures as recommended solved the problem though (together with a couple of new tyres).

PASTMASTER said:

Only if you drive your F1 off road.

No idea what the mechanical cause was - I assumed it was something to do with the variable 4WD cutting in and out - but my tyre man had never seen anything like it. All I had noticed was that the tyres were getting really noisy. Switching to the lower tyre pressures as recommended solved the problem though (together with a couple of new tyres).

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Hard to say without seeing em.

Were they remoulds?

Dave Hoatson said:

I have a 1999 1.8 petrol Freelander, owned for about three months now. After owning it for a few weeks it was apparent that the VCU was, for want of a better word, knackerd. The near side rear tyre wore the outside edge away in less that 2000 miles and the rolling resistance when on full lock, particularly in reverse, was getting very bad. The VCU has now been replaced with a re-engineered component which came with a 12 month warranty. My problem is that since the new part was fitted I have twice got stuck. On each seperate occasion one front wheel has been spinning with apparently no attempt by the TC to stop the wheel spinning thus allowing the power to go to the wheels that were not spinning. On the first occasion it was the near side front and on the second it was the offside front. I have had the brakes serviced with new slave cylinders and shoes to the rear and the fluid has been changed so the brakes should be working well. The ABS light goes out as it should at 5 MPH and the HD appears to work in both first and reverse gear when descending. I was under the impression that the TC, utilising the ABS, would have sorted this issue. Apart from that I am enjoying the little beast a lot.
Any comments or suggestion would be greatly welcomed.

Click to expand...

Dont this sound remarkably like thos special "no-drive" VCU's that those nasty Freelanderird peeps was flogging?

if one front wheel spins, the TC system should apply brakes to that wheel and the VCU should lock up to allow drive to the rear wheels.

I would suggest that your VCU is faulty - ask where the garage bought it from and get it checked.

The tyre wear before the VCU change is symptomatic of a duff VCU.

S' funny ( or not as the case may be ) how you just take for granted that a new unit will be ok

Bromsgrove Defender said:

S' funny ( or not as the case may be ) how you just take for granted that a new unit will be ok

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Or how you assume your Land Rover specialist will use Genuine Parts and not some cheap crap from "my supplier".

Oh and those tyres - not remoulds unless LR were fitting remoulds to their new cars back then! Probably Goodyear Wranglers, I suspect (this was a while ago, when Freelanders had only just been invented). Basic wear across the whole width of both rear tyres, so some sections had 3mm across the width, some had 4mm. As I said, the only problem I noticed was the noise. And the tyres were getting near the end anyway so I changed them for two of the same at slightly lower pressure and had no more problems. Got rid of the car at three years and approx 40000 miles - changed it for a 10 year old TDi Disco.