tow a bar

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landynutter

New Member
Posts
157
Location
Eastbourne east sussex
Has anyone made an A bar for towing? want to make one for a friend.Have seen a steam engine towing a landy before with one.Obvously the coulping and 'A ' side of it is simple but the connecting to the series landy side not sure.Has anyone got any piccys?
 
Do a search A-frames are illegal for towing with. Unless you're recovering a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. The situation may be different for showmans wagons etc but for general road use you can't just hitch a vehicle up to an Aframe and tow it down the road. Also the broken down vehicle must have T&T & insurance on it.
 
Has anyone made an A bar for towing? want to make one for a friend.Have seen a steam engine towing a landy before with one.Obvously the coulping and 'A ' side of it is simple but the connecting to the series landy side not sure.Has anyone got any piccys?

How often does he breakdown then?:eek: :eek: :eek:

I wouldn't bother wasting your time making it to be honest. If he gets stopped while using it he will have the book chucked at him.
 
How do these mobile homes tow small cars behind on a frames and get away with it then? Got me worried now as i'm planing on towing mine on a proper a bar to piccadilly wood play and play behind the disco tomorrow. If not i'll drive it there.
 
so what do the motor homes tow their little smarts or what ever with?

If it's an axiom it weighs less than 750kg and so is an unbraked trailer Though legally if a trailer has brakes then they must work correctly? Otherwise they are breaking the law.

I am not saying that under no circumstances whatsoever must you never use an Aframe. What I am saying is that they are illegal and that if a copper felt like it he could pull you and give you grief for it. And in the current climate of "How much can we squeeze from the motorist" A vehicle towing another using an A frame is easy picking for fixed penalties and impounded vehicles charges.

In North Wales Police Road Blocks have been issuing fixed penalties to nurses and care workers using their own cars to visit patients, for the henious crime of not displaying a no smoking sign in the vehicle. anyone is fair game it would seem.

There is also the fact that in the event of an accident your insurance company will claim (rightly) that you were driving illegally and therefore you're insurance was void at the time of the accident
 
i made a towing bar literally a big peice of box section with a hitch bolted on one end and a large shackle on the other the towing rings on front bumper either side of the rad panel connect nicely to a shackle and as long a somone is steering the series thats connected at the back your fine o and you do need somone to drive the vehicle in front 2 with all that your fine dnt question me on legality tho
 
I cut the A-frame off an old boat trailer and welded lugs onto an old bumper. It's a shame its not legal to tow a Land-Rover like this because it works very well - extremely stable. I've thought about somehow rigging up an overrun coupling to operate the brake pedal via a Bowden cable but never got round to doing it.
 
I made one to tow my race Mini and it was brilliant. I made two brackets to bolt on the the subframe with holes in for two shackles. The shackles were welded into the box section at the end of the 'A' frame ..

I towed at 70/80 mph with no problems even when the Mini had a front wheel blow out on its road tyres.

I asked about the legalities and was told that as long as the tow car was bigger than the Mini (which was now a trailer by the way) and it wasn't unsafe then a blind eye would be turned, as in the case of camper vans towing smart cars.

You do need to rig something up like the AA have , or had, to clamp to the steering column and opperate the brake pedal via the push brake on the tow hitch.

Yer could put two tow balls either side the front chassis on the bumper and then use three tow bar thingys to clip on . One on the tow vehicle and two on the landy.
 
Max towing speed when using an aframe is 20mph or 40mph on a motorway. Also the towbar must not be able to touch the ground if it breaks away. and all brakes fitted to the trailer/car must be working correctly and efficiently.
 
Max towing speed when using an aframe is 20mph or 40mph on a motorway. Also the towbar must not be able to touch the ground if it breaks away. and all brakes fitted to the trailer/car must be working correctly and efficiently.

I towed an 'A' frame trailer for years with at 38 tons gross doing 60 plus before the road speed governers. The legal speed was 60 now 56mph, the 20 limit was done away with 40 years ago together with the requirement for a second man as brake man.

Now smaller vehicles may be different, if so I stand corrected.
 
I towed an 'A' frame trailer for years with at 38 tons gross doing 60 plus before the road speed governers. The legal speed was 60 now 56mph, the 20 limit was done away with 40 years ago together with the requirement for a second man as brake man.

Now smaller vehicles may be different, if so I stand corrected.

Aye with Air brakes that auto engage if you lose the trailer unit?

Here it's been posted a few time but here it is again. There seems to always be something they can get you on if you use one.

When an "A" frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. motorhome) we believe the "A" frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer. As a consequence the car and A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in Great Britain. These requirements are contained within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986/1078) as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1796) as amended (RVLR).
Trailers having a combined axle mass not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly. The regulations do not include design constraints on how this should be achieved but, for example, it could be met by direct linking of the trailer brakes to the brake system of the towing vehicle or by automatic inertia (overrun) operation via the towing hitch. Inertia systems can only be used for trailers with a maximum combined axle mass of 3500kg.
Regulations 15 and 16 set out the braking requirements - including minimum braking efficiencies for trailer brakes. Subject to certain age exemptions, the regulation requires the braking system to comply with the construction, fitting and performance requirements of European Community Directive 71/320/EEC along with its various amending Directives. The most recent consolidated directive is 98/12/EC. Alternatively the braking system can comply with the corresponding UNECE Regulation No.13.09.
In addition, C&U Regulation 18 requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. If the brakes of the towing vehicle do not directly operate the trailer brakes the use of an inertia (overrun) system is acceptable. If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir, alternatively a source could be made available from the tow vehicle. From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.
Other provisions from Regulation 15 and Regulation 86A of C&U require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system in which the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates whilst the combination is in motion. Alternatively, in the case of trailers up to a maximum mass of 1500kg, the drawbar must be prevented from touching the ground and the trailer able to retain some residual steering.
Whilst being towed, trailers are subject to the relevant requirements given in RVLR, including the use of triangular red reflectors. There would be further requirements for the display of the appropriate number plate, etc.
The use of "dollies" is intended for the recovery of broken down vehicles, not for the transportation of a vehicle from "A" to "B". Under Regulation 83 of C&U a motor car is permitted to tow two trailers when one of them is a towing implement and the other is secured to and either rests on or is suspended from the implement. Therefore as a trailer if the maximum laden weight of the dolly exceeds 750 kg it must be fitted with operational brakes, additionally the brakes on the wheels of the second trailer (the towed car) must work and meet the specified requirements. Again this would be very difficult for the rear brakes of a motor car, on their own, to meet the 50% braking efficiency required for a trailer. The dolly would also be required by Regulation 22 of C&U to be fitted with suspension. Regulations 19 and 22 in C&U permit a broken down vehicle to be recovered without complying with these requirements. However, there is further legislation under the Road Traffic Act that introduces a limitation on the maximum speed that the combination can be driven; this is 40mph on motorways and 20mph on other roads.
 
Looks like a minefield!
Get a trailer that you can park the Landy on ... problem solved.

seconded, i got a trailer 9 months ago its used all the time, i've become a boy racer rescue service!! :D made a fair bit of cash shifting those ned wagons about! also as mine is a ladder frame trailer it works as a set of ramps as well, best money's i spent in ages!! even the missis agrees it were a good buy!! :eek:
 
Aye with Air brakes that auto engage if you lose the trailer unit?

Here it's been posted a few time but here it is again. There seems to always be something they can get you on if you use one.

When an "A" frame is attached to a vehicle (e.g. a motor car) and towed by a motor vehicle (e.g. motorhome) we believe the "A" frame and car become a single unit and as such are classified in legislation as a trailer. As a consequence the car and A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in Great Britain. These requirements are contained within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986/1078) as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1796) as amended (RVLR).
Trailers having a combined axle mass not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly. The regulations do not include design constraints on how this should be achieved but, for example, it could be met by direct linking of the trailer brakes to the brake system of the towing vehicle or by automatic inertia (overrun) operation via the towing hitch. Inertia systems can only be used for trailers with a maximum combined axle mass of 3500kg.
Regulations 15 and 16 set out the braking requirements - including minimum braking efficiencies for trailer brakes. Subject to certain age exemptions, the regulation requires the braking system to comply with the construction, fitting and performance requirements of European Community Directive 71/320/EEC along with its various amending Directives. The most recent consolidated directive is 98/12/EC. Alternatively the braking system can comply with the corresponding UNECE Regulation No.13.09.
In addition, C&U Regulation 18 requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. If the brakes of the towing vehicle do not directly operate the trailer brakes the use of an inertia (overrun) system is acceptable. If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir, alternatively a source could be made available from the tow vehicle. From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.
Other provisions from Regulation 15 and Regulation 86A of C&U require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system in which the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates whilst the combination is in motion. Alternatively, in the case of trailers up to a maximum mass of 1500kg, the drawbar must be prevented from touching the ground and the trailer able to retain some residual steering.
Whilst being towed, trailers are subject to the relevant requirements given in RVLR, including the use of triangular red reflectors. There would be further requirements for the display of the appropriate number plate, etc.
The use of "dollies" is intended for the recovery of broken down vehicles, not for the transportation of a vehicle from "A" to "B". Under Regulation 83 of C&U a motor car is permitted to tow two trailers when one of them is a towing implement and the other is secured to and either rests on or is suspended from the implement. Therefore as a trailer if the maximum laden weight of the dolly exceeds 750 kg it must be fitted with operational brakes, additionally the brakes on the wheels of the second trailer (the towed car) must work and meet the specified requirements. Again this would be very difficult for the rear brakes of a motor car, on their own, to meet the 50% braking efficiency required for a trailer. The dolly would also be required by Regulation 22 of C&U to be fitted with suspension. Regulations 19 and 22 in C&U permit a broken down vehicle to be recovered without complying with these requirements. However, there is further legislation under the Road Traffic Act that introduces a limitation on the maximum speed that the combination can be driven; this is 40mph on motorways and 20mph on other roads.

That's all very well, but the most important rule when towing a car on an A-frame is to make sure the steering lock is dissengaged!
 
.... and one more thing too!

A chum of mine has a permanent A-bar on the front of his 109. We were moving his historic Scammell recovery truck and took the 109 with us behind it so we could get home afterwards. I drove his 109, hitched it up behind the Scammell and we set off.

We eventually got to our destination (his Scammell is proper slow ... from memory the top speed is 26mph!) - and we hadn't seen the 109 since we set off (can't even see it in the mirrors, the Scammell is way too wide). Well ... it was still there, but had smoke pouring from every rivet hole, vent and window seal. Was incredibly hot inside, but not actually (fortunately!) on fire.

Moral of the story ... don't forget to take the handbrake off too! The Scammell certainly didn't notice the extra drag!
 
I think it's probably the case that thousands of people go about their business towing illegally every day and are unaware they are doing anything wrong. It's also the case that the plod probably don't know the rules and/or don't really care. What happens if you are involved in a smash though? You can bet your shiny metal arse that the insurance company will find a way of not paying out if they can.
 
For the reason of the braking requirements I found a second hand A frame with over-run braking. It works on the tow hitch just as a trailer with over-run brakes would, this then operates a cable. You run the cable through the partially opened driver's window, put a frame between the driver's seat and brake pedal, when the over-run is activated it presses the pedal. Better than a trailer in some circumstances, not as good in others.

Andy
 
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