Freelander 1 Throttle delay - low power from stop

Hi folks... apologies if its a repost or wrong thread.

Basically i have an opposite problem most of people here. I have a huge delay (about 2-3s) from stop to power run... after this delay (and after 2000rev.), everything works fine. It is a sort it is kind of sluggish RPM. Once it reaches 2000+rev it goes like a rocket.

Basically if am in a stop position (foot on break pedal - as I have an Auto FL) and press gas... it takes 2 seconds to respond. Nothing related to the gear as this happens in any speed/gear. From zero throttle to gas... there is delay there... Anyone could give a help on that ???

I'm thinking about the vacuum system somehow, does it make sense? How to test it easily?

Additional info:
Lump of white smoke during the first start of the day.
I can reach 90mph easy (a part from the delay)
New cyclone breather
Just MOT all good.
EGR original (but cleaned and deactivated) the problem was there before this mod
New vacuum hoses (a part from the one direct to the turbo)
New turbo hoses (no sign of leak) at least not clear sign.
ODBII shows NO error at all. I've 10k miles a year. car is 100k miles.
*update2:
turbo filter -new
air filter -new
*update3:
I forgot to say. Td4 reg.53

Anyone has a clue on that? Thanks a lot!

Cheers
Andy

Have you checked your turbo boost solenoid and actuator mechanism is working? Look through the driver's wheelarch with a torch while someone revs the engine.

I haven't checked that because I thought it would only affect power at high speed/high revs.

one can clearly hear the turbo "kick-in" at 1850rev. (well... there is a noise of "spinning"/"whistling" at least) without load (in neutral gear).
With load, there is the fore-mentioned sluggish.

I will try to check that anyway.

Worth checking the filter on the turbo solenoid too. That smoke on startup is probably a dribbling injector but I doubt that's causing the issue.
There's then all the usual suspects such as fuel filter, MAF sensor, the low pressure fuel pump, air filter. Does your OBD2 code reader give live data?

Might be worth unplugging the MAF sensor and seeing if there's a difference. It costs nothing. If you think it might be a vacuum leak, you could go testing that (with water or something like carb cleaner).

I will update the thread: turbo filter new, air filter new, there could be an injector dribbling indeed (but I do not want to pay for new or cleaning now)

I'm not aware where the fuel filter is or the difficulty to change it. Will have a look.

4x4Dog said:

Might be worth unplugging the MAF sensor and seeing if there's a difference. It costs nothing. If you think it might be a vacuum leak, you could go testing that (with water or something like carb cleaner).

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Sorry, how to use water or carb cleaner to test vacuum? (the hoses suck air, therefore will not produce bubbles).

I tried to disconnect MAF months ago... seems stuck. (and i'm afraid to break it)

The fuel filter is under the plastic in the right-hand rear wheel arch.
With the vacuum test, spraying over a leak with carb cleaner will cause the engine to rev up, if you use water it will stumble (and you'll hear a sucking sound).
Give the plug on the MAF a spritz with WD40 or similar and try again. Alternatively, if you have an OBD scanner that does live data, you might be able to read the MAF from there.

I've read about a lot of people here just hanging parts on their vehicle... that gets expensive. That's why it's best to get some direction as to what the problem might be. Right now I'd deffo be thinking MAF.

Thanks again for the help.
I used OBD some time ago... MAF and MAP read ok. (to all of my knowledge)

I suspect on the vacuum due to the connection with the brakes. If i don't use brake at all, response is much quicker... issue is... I don't know where the leak is ( I changed most of the hoses already) . by the way... brakes work fine, including ABS and the automatic descent control.

I'd expect that a vac leak wouldn't change much whether you used the brake or not, and I'd expect a vac leak to make it idle like a rough pig too ... have you ruled out a sticky or dragging brake?

Another problem could be air entering the system after the MAF sensor -- pirate air. Might be worth checking to see if the airbox has been fitted right (I've seen a few misaligned). Again, spray a little carb cleaner and listen for an idle change.

Alois said:

I haven't checked that because I thought it would only affect power at high speed/high revs.

one can clearly hear the turbo "kick-in" at 1850rev. (well... there is a noise of "spinning"/"whistling" at least) without load (in neutral gear).
With load, there is the fore-mentioned sluggish.

I will try to check that anyway.

Click to expand...

Yes, but the VNT system is there to reduce lag, and your signs sound like a laggy turbo. Worth checking as it's easy, but also the many other culprits that other have mentioned on here.

Very interesting tips. I will wait the weather to improve to try those.

No rough idle and start first time always. Sticky brakes only in extremely wet/damp weather (as normal for FLs). No dragging at all.

The reason I suspect the vacuum-break relation is because the brake servo is vacuum aided. And again... not using the brakes reduces the lag.
I suspect not enough vacuum in the storage/storage leak...

@guineafowl21 indeed... VNT is vacuum operated. No vacuum-No VNT. I will order one of those handheld vacuum pistols (from amazon) to make/measure vacuum. I do not want to touch turbo now, as it seems to work fine. One can feel it boosting in the motorway (once high rev goes)

moreover, VNT works fine, as I -engine off- suck the air from vacuum breather and it moves the VNT. I'm suspecting vacuum solenoid or vacuum leak.

Using a scan tool to view live data would certainly be a massive help. You don't need to have the EML on to do this, it will still access the ECU for the data. Looking at O2 sensor 1 will tell you if you have a rich or lean condition and thereby give you some direction on what you are looking for. Looking at the fuel trims will also be another great help. Without some form of reliable data it will likely be very difficult to diagnose the issue, if it is engine management related.

As 4x4Dog alluded to, guessing at causes and throwing parts at it in the hope you fix it is a rather silly way to go about diagnosing vehicle issues. Using a method to gather reliable data, and then using that data along with the symptoms of the issue will lead to the problem.

Thanks Dan,

I will scan it again and see what comes out. As i said before, no error or issue, or misreading was shown last time i used diagnostic (even using a professional garage tool in a proper garage £50 for that).
Although, my EGR vacuum hose and reservoir-solenoid turbo hose were COMPLETELY destroyed, which I found out later on and replaced them. I do not trust ECU/OBD diag anymore.

Alois said:

Thanks Dan,

I will scan it again and see what comes out. As i said before, no error or issue, or misreading was shown last time i used diagnostic (even using a professional garage tool in a proper garage £50 for that).
Although, my EGR vacuum hose and reservoir-solenoid turbo hose were COMPLETELY destroyed, which I found out later on and replaced them. I do not trust ECU/OBD diag anymore.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you have had a bad experience with OBD and been stung, going by the stories I see and hear, you are not alone. Don't let it put you off though, if you hit your hand does it mean you never use a hammer again? Learning to use a scan tool as a source of information as you work and make changes and adjustments to the vehicle will help you greatly. If you don't have access to one that you can use freely and have to go to a garage every time then it will be financially inefficient. For example, you can look at live data for a sensor and check it's response at various engine loads and immediately rule out that sensor to be working, rather than replacing it and seeing that it made no difference.

Alois said:

Very interesting tips. I will wait the weather to improve to try those.

No rough idle and start first time always. Sticky brakes only in extremely wet/damp weather (as normal for FLs). No dragging at all.

The reason I suspect the vacuum-break relation is because the brake servo is vacuum aided. And again... not using the brakes reduces the lag.
I suspect not enough vacuum in the storage/storage leak...

@guineafowl21 indeed... VNT is vacuum operated. No vacuum-No VNT. I will order one of those handheld vacuum pistols (from amazon) to make/measure vacuum. I do not want to touch turbo now, as it seems to work fine. One can feel it boosting in the motorway (once high rev goes)

moreover, VNT works fine, as I -engine off- suck the air from vacuum breather and it moves the VNT. I'm suspecting vacuum solenoid or vacuum leak.

Click to expand...

Hi - don't bother with a vacuum pistol, just pull off a vac hose and suck, then put your tongue over and see if it holds a vacuum. Again, if you suspect the solenoid, just watch the mechanism while the engine is revved - you can even do this on your own with a long stick to push the pedal (I have done this).

@Dan_Trials - O2 sensor and fuel trims - I assumed this was a Td4. OP can you confirm?

guineafowl21 said:

Hi - don't bother with a vacuum pistol, just pull off a vac hose and suck, then put your tongue over and see if it holds a vacuum. Again, if you suspect the solenoid, just watch the mechanism while the engine is revved - you can even do this on your own with a long stick to push the pedal (I have done this).

@Dan_Trials - O2 sensor and fuel trims - I assumed this was a Td4. OP can you confirm?

Click to expand...

Oh you could be right, he did mention turbo at some point!

Hi Dan and Guinea,

you are both right. Td4 reg 53 (just updated the thread). I did the test with the tongue before. Hence I discovered my ERG and Turbo vacuum hoses split. But I read that you need high vacuum for long period of time and the "tongue method" will only tell you about a big hole or split in the hose. I did another practical test today.
--> low gear uphill, revs above 2300 RPM, foot down the throttle... All fine.. good power and retake.
--> low gear uphill, normal rev (below and around 2000 RPM), foot down, ~2 seconds, then it take off again.
--> 60mph, 3000RPM, throttle, ~1-2 seconds delay, then it take of again. (5 gear all the time, no reduction) You can even feel the acceleration. Something like a booster kick-in.

Curiosity to Dan: I do like a lot electronics and ODB and diagnostics, basically everything with a screen and some buttons. I just meant I don't trust them in diesel cars (or old/semi-electronic cars). Some times diag. does not show small details. As I previously tried with my OBD nothing showed, I went to a garage to confirm it.... nothing showed either. 1 week later I found 2 vacuum hoses split (like completely apart), my intake manyfold blocked with gunk (including the MAP sensor, which I carefully cleaned and tested), my EGR partially open and partially blocked. Neither systems showed anything.
I was told it could be the MAF, replug the diag, nothing showed again, MAF reading good, MAP reading good, Temps reading good. Throttle position good. Hence my suspicion about using diag in this case. I suspect that a good diesel mechanic would be able to tell the problem easier.

I did the quick "long stick throttle" test and saw that the VNT actuator on the turbo moves when throttle is pressed. It does move slower than I expected though. I was hoping to see a much quicker movement.
When I stop being lazy (and the weather improves), i will try to disconnect MAF (i hate to take the air filter case out... those back screws could screw themselves) to see if anything changes.

Strangely, If I don't use the brakes, only the reduce speed to minimum, the retake is very quick. If using the brakes for a long time, e.g. long descent, the retake is much sluggish.


Will keep here updated as often as I can.

On another note: Does anyone knows WHAT IS and WHAT FOR is that small-round-conical connector in the main vacuum pipe? (i.e. the black plastic "T" junction where - in my case - connects the EGR vacuum hose (RED ARROW in the picture - which btw is NOT my car). Thanks!

that small-round-conical connector in the main vacuum pipe?

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https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...freelander-today.199594/page-300#post-3672763

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