TD5 woes - any bright ideas?

Bennehboy said:

Once you've done the washers, leave the rocker cover off and do a few fuel purges - will be obvious if it's still chucking diesel out - fingers crossed that the head ain't cracked!

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Yes, I was thinking about how it might be a good idea to purge before I put the lid on. Actually, I'll purge first with the rocker cover off before I remove the injectors so I can see where it is coming out.

Right, I've got a fuel filter head ordered too. There's a maze of different part numbers and superseded items but I'm now pretty sure that for a late model TD5 it's a WJN500150. It is, of course the most expensive of all the filter heads. I also got a new cheap crank position sensor. I have two already, but I suspect at least one is dodgy. If I can get the engine to fire I might buy an expensive Lucas or LR item for the long term.

Does that new block come with an air bleed valve? (PN WJN500110), probably worth replacing that at the same time.

Bennehboy said:

Does that new block come with an air bleed valve? (PN WJN500110), probably worth replacing that at the same time.

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As I understand it, it's the complete assembly, including the brass spouts that the clip-on pipes attach to, and presumably any glands and valving inside. We shall see.

Dingocroft have got back to me and there are no injector removal tools available 'til the end of January. I Googled the Jaguar Land Rover special tool part number and see they have them on the JLR website for only £59.31. Once again, no stock expected 'til the 21st of January. Looks like I'll be messing about with a bent bit of metal or filed down Allen key after all.

Use the D2 TD5 Filter housing.

I posted part numbers on here somewhere! It's exactly identical, but £100 cheaper (or there or there abouts!).

Mine was corroded around the edges to. The D2 one has all the correct filters and one-way valves. They come loose just so you can check they are in the right ports.

Only difference between the headers is the filter it comes with and the water sensor. But they add £100 on for no reason at all. Like I say, I'm running the cheaper D2 unit and have been for a while.

As to the tool from Dingo ... I'll PM you in the morning if I remember! Can help you out there if you like!

WJN000030 as ordered from Brookwell. Same as the other 2 part numbers, just a different water sensor basically.

taazzukcb said:

Use the D2 TD5 Filter housing.

I posted part numbers on here somewhere! It's exactly identical, but £100 cheaper (or there or there abouts!).

Mine was corroded around the edges to. The D2 one has all the correct filters and one-way valves. They come loose just so you can check they are in the right ports.

Only difference between the headers is the filter it comes with and the water sensor. But they add £100 on for no reason at all. Like I say, I'm running the cheaper D2 unit and have been for a while.

As to the tool from Dingo ... I'll PM you in the morning if I remember! Can help you out there if you like!

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Great that's fantastic - check your PMs.

I thought there'd be some compatibility between the various filter head units but at those sorts of prices it's a bit much to chance getting the wrong thing. I already ordered a WJN500150 from LR direct this (Monday) morning. It was £158 so not as bad as it could be. Some of them are well over £200. I could probably get an old man in a flat cap to cast it in a sand box for that money.

More news. My filter head came today:



Complete with nice new brass spouts, and little valve in the rear offside one. Plus a new filter. I popped out and fitted it:



There it is, looking nice and new. Those clip-on pipe connectors didn't want to come off the old one. They seemed to be corroded on. After squashing them all round with a mole wrench they were persuaded off. I can't have damaged them too much because they don't seem to be leaking and I've run the purge cycle several times. I put grease on the brass spouts so they might actually come off in future. I also popped the rocker cover off and looked at the injectors with a torch but couldn't see anything obvious leaking, even though the shank of the dipstick started getting wet with fuel about halfway through the second purge cycle. I know the heads on TD5s can become porous, but I'd need to have blown a bloody big hole in it to get that much juice out. There's probably an extra three litres gone in the sump now, judging by the resting dipstick level. Reassuring, because it confirms the filter head is the correct one for my model as it is dispensing fuel to the cylinder head at the correct pressure!

Can't do much more now until my washers and seals come. The supplier says he's put them in a jiffy bag and sent them via Royal Mail, so it could be quite a while at this season of goodwill.

Maybe I was getting some symptoms as a precursor to this. Occasionally over the past month or so I'd found it a bit reluctant to pick up speed coming out of corners or after gear changes. I thought it might be the turbo, so I'd been waggling my wastegate and applying WD40 as you do. But maybe the injectors couldn't scavenge enough fuel to accelerate the engine as a result of the fuel pressure drop.

Best of luck!

Bennehboy said:

Best of luck!

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Thanks!

Today my washers and seals came:



I've popped the rocker shaft off in readiness:





Hmm. Cam followers aren't as pristine as I'd have liked in an engine that's done less than 70000 miles. There's a little bit of fretting on some of them. I'm not doing an engine rebuild now though. That'll be the subject of a thread on here circa 2017 and not before (I hope). Also I got some black nitrile gloves which are really good. Easy to put on and don't tend to snag and tear like the rubber ones. Goes with the Goth Land Rover aesthetic too.

I couldn't contain myself. I had to have a bit of a prize at the injectors to see if they would shift. No, they're well stuck in and I shall wait for the correct tool to arrive courtesy Mr Taazzukcb above. I don't want to risk breaking anything.

I know it's too late now, but those o-rings aint genuine buddy, they should be green.

There's been loads of discussion on another forum I use about pitted followers & cams - kicked off by some info on a VAG forum where folks are also getting the same. Concensus seems to be that it's probably caused by changes in oil specs on newer engines (ie later than EU2/3), something is now missing from the oil that helped prevent this (zinc removed due to issues with CAT's). Anyhow, basically the recommendation is to use oil certified for PD engines...

Bennehboy said:

I know it's too late now, but those o-rings aint genuine buddy, they should be green.

There's been loads of discussion on another forum I use about pitted followers & cams - kicked off by some info on a VAG forum where folks are also getting the same. Concensus seems to be that it's probably caused by changes in oil specs on newer engines (ie later than EU2/3), something is now missing from the oil that helped prevent this (zinc removed due to issues with CAT's). Anyhow, basically the recommendation is to use oil certified for PD engines...

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change in oil specs etc is part of the problem similar with followers on v8s injector cam is under some pressure even with roller followers, ive found it cheaper to get another used head assembly than by new cams

Oh no! And with a 'G' suffix too. Well I'm certainly the little boy that Santa Claus forgot. At least they're not Britpart.

The rollers aren't too bad, but I'm used to seeing something a little smoother even on high mileage engines. I shall put 'em back for now but will keep an eye on them and maybe somewhere over the 100000 mark will consider renewal. For at least half of the engine's life while I've had it, it's had fresh 5w30 at 6000 mile intervals. Obviously not quite enough on its own.

jamesmartin said:

change in oil specs etc is part of the problem similar with followers on v8s injector cam is under some pressure even with roller followers, ive found it cheaper to get another used head assembly than by new cams

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My previous head the cam, and followers were goosed - probably due to the coolant in the oil though. Anyhow, I sourced a used but good set for £50 all in.

Unless they're terrible I wouldn't worry too much, got loads of mates running round with mild pitting on theirs and they're just keeping an eye on them (and taking comparison photos).

Yes, if I got a second hand set they might not be any better than what I have already. I wouldn't say I was pitted yet, more mild surface fretting. I'm hoping for a few more years before I need to bend the plastic down at Turner Engineering TD5 engine parts TD5 cylinder heads, pistons, bearings

I've been out and done a bit more on the Land Rover. I pulled the injectors out and renewed the seals and washers. The seals were getting a bit crisp - the new ones feel a lot more supple. The copper washers were getting a bit burnt looking. The looked very like Ratty's in this thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f67/td5-injector-seals-206864.html No cracks visible in the injector sockets when I looked at them with a bright light. So it felt it was a useful job to do. However, it hasn't solved my problem. I've also been working my way through a few more electrical possibilities, examining the visual condition of wiring in various places and seeing what happens if I pull fuses or relays. The way it just cut out as if a switch had been flicked makes me feel like it's some sort of electronic/electrical fault. I've tried the new crank position sensor and pulled the injector loom out and checked for continuity and discontinuity and all seems well. Pulling relays out individually suggests that everybody's working, because you can see what's not working when they're out.

So what could it be? Maybe a deep fault in the wiring loom that's not detectable via the Nanocom Similarly a deep fault in the ECU that's not Nanocom-able. Any other ideas?

Brown said:

I've been out and done a bit more on the Land Rover. I pulled the injectors out and renewed the seals and washers. The seals were getting a bit crisp - the new ones feel a lot more supple. The copper washers were getting a bit burnt looking. The looked very like Ratty's in this thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f67/td5-injector-seals-206864.html No cracks visible in the injector sockets when I looked at them with a bright light. So it felt it was a useful job to do. However, it hasn't solved my problem. I've also been working my way through a few more electrical possibilities, examining the visual condition of wiring in various places and seeing what happens if I pull fuses or relays. The way it just cut out as if a switch had been flicked makes me feel like it's some sort of electronic/electrical fault. I've tried the new crank position sensor and pulled the injector loom out and checked for continuity and discontinuity and all seems well. Pulling relays out individually suggests that everybody's working, because you can see what's not working when they're out.

So what could it be? Maybe a deep fault in the wiring loom that's not detectable via the Nanocom Similarly a deep fault in the ECU that's not Nanocom-able. Any other ideas?

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Can you get nanocom access to ecu?
Have you checked wiring to inertia switch
Can you see rpm on cranking- as td5 crank shaft sensor wiring is ****.
If you cant see rpm on crank then wiring on sensor, sensor itself or could be ecu plug wiring

Inertia switch is OK, because you can see what's not working when it is disconnected and the thing is completely immobilised.

Yes, I'm getting Nanocom information when I crank. You can see r.p.m. (between 200 and 300) and cylinder balance values (pretty big coz it's running on the starter) so something's getting from crank position sensor to ECU to my Nanocom.

I do appreciate your input, especially given your interest in electronics.

Brown said:

Inertia switch is OK, because you can see what's not working when it is disconnected and the thing is completely immobilised.

Yes, I'm getting Nanocom information when I crank. You can see r.p.m. (between 200 and 300) and cylinder balance values (pretty big coz it's running on the starter) so something's getting from crank position sensor to ECU to my Nanocom.

I do appreciate your input, especially given your interest in electronics.

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Pm on way