TD5 AIR BLEED VALVE in Fuel Filter

omara04 said:

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

@hodgy - unfortunately the TD5 is a completely different injection philosophy and doesn't have leak-off pipes as the fuel runs inside a casting in the head. Thank you for posting though.

@sierra - yes you were spot on, and thanks for the link that's very useful. At the weekend I found there wasn't a non-return valve, and the one I'd bought wouldn't fit. The air bleed valve was blocked and gummed up, so I just replaced it as I had the new one to hand. (plus new fuel filter, plus new sedimenter) First proper test was this morning to get to work, and as it was parked on the level, whilst there was a bit of an improvement (reduced from 3mins of cranking to just 1min) but it's still not a happy starter. I'm wondering whether the new AMC cylinder head has a bigger fuel gallery or something else is somehow different, casuing the fuel to drain back to the tank?

Is it possible to get a modified or later pushfit to screw connector that allows the NRV to fit? I'm pretty certain it's fuel related because when you crank it over and give it a bit of gas it fires intermittantly, and then finally catches after about 1min of cranking. Also, the NRV, well how does it work exactly? It's just a straight through bit of plastic. Is it just the restriction in the line that breaks up any syphon effect?

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Steve

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the symptoms do suggest that air is still in the fuel system, try the purge procedure sierra suggests, ive had to do the purging routine upto 8 times, one after the other before all air was out after replacing cylinder head and it then starts on the first turn of the key

Sierra / John

Thanks for your posts guys. I'm inclined to believe you, as you say an airlock would be the most obvious suggestion. Wonder if I could just pick your brains further?

I'm having trouble with the 5 pedal press bleed system though - I did read somewhere that the very earliest models didn't have this feature enabled? Is that right? (mine is a '99 model) When I put the key onto posn 2, all the dash lights come on, and no matter how hard or fast I pump the pedal, nothing happens over and above normal e.g. the electric pump just runs and shuts off after about 3mins. It's not especially noisy, no more noisy or quiet than it was when it started fine from cold. I can just about get 5 pumps in and the MIL/ECU light just goes out.

The fact that it does cut out suggests it is reaching pressure? Although if there is an air bubble somwhere, it could just be being compressed.

When it does start it runs beautifully, pulls like a train, is smooth and quiet, and is currently averaging around 21-24mpg (about what I'd expect for an auto). I don't appear to be leaking any fuel (tiny drop of oil from the sump gasket, but it is going back to the garage for that).

I've sat out there in the freezing cold and let the pump run til it cut out 3 times (9 minutes and then couldn't feel my ears lol). Earlier tonight when I came home from work I've parked it up the road, pointing downhill, and pumped the air suspension up to the max - I'm hoping that if nothing else, eventually if there is an airlock in there, repeated "burping" might release it

The only other option I'm thinking of is getting a spare connector that goes into the fuel filter head, and getting one of the lads in work just to ream it out to the correct diameter to put the non return valve in, see what that does. However, it really is just a little plastic tube... how does that work as a NRV? Is it just the fact that there's a restriction in the line? Surely there would need to be some sort of flap or springiness or something?

Thanks again...

you turn the ignition on and press accelerator pedal between 5 and 10 times speedily whilst the pump is running, the mil light should start to flash and it will go through the self purging procedure, when it has done this turn of ignition then repeat for as many times as needed, the pump should get quiter as the air is expelled, you will need a good battery for this.
Mine is a 99 model and has this feature

dont be too fast with the pedal, 1 push per second max. and let the pedal to makle the whole travel back ... if the MIL is not flashing for some reason it will purge out the air anyway... don't bother with the return valve...if the circuit is well sealed(e'g good injector seals, fuel lines) that valve is useless... mine is a 2000 MY and never had that valve, nor problems due to lack of it

improvise a fitting as to screw in a pressure gauge in the FPR instead of the FT sensor and leave it there over night... the pressure after you stop the car must be close to 4 bar and it doesnt have to drop below 3 untill the morning(it will drop cos the temp. will drop and they're related).... if it drops under 3 bar it means you are loosing pressure somewhere

OK thanks for the tip John I'll try it again in the morning. I did press it a fair few times, at each attempt - definitely 5, maybe 7 or 8 but definitely no MIL flashing.

I really want this to work, because it sounds like it's fixed everyone's previous problems with cold starting and air in the fuel!!!!

I'll take a video of me doing it tomorrow and upload it to youtube and show you the results. It's probably something I'm doing wrong.

EDIT: Sierra just saw your post as well. Thanks for the advice, I will try that too. I'm inclined to believe you - I can't see how a straight piece of plastic tubing would act as an NRV.

I tell you what... I've been working on and around landies for 5 or 6 years, and cars in general for about 10... never had so many "interesting challenges" with one vehicle though lol.

Evening guys.

Well, unfortunately as suspected, similar result again this morning. Cold start, lots of cranking, and then when you floor the throttle (whilst its cranking) it slowly coughs and splutters into life, and eventually starts and it fine. Drove it to work (8miles) and when I stopped outside work I tried the 5 pedal press thing. Nothing?

Took a video of it this time, apologies for the dark (it was pre 7am) and shaky camera (no excuse, just my poor skills) but hopefully someone will be able to point out what I'm doing wrong

TD5 Discovery Fuel Bleed Pedal Trick not working - YouTube

After my first meeting ended, I jumped back in the disco to head to another building, and it started fine. And then 3 more times during the day, then as usual drove home lovely.

Tomorrow morning I'll take a video of the start and show you what it's like from having been at rest for 8 hours or more.

Still on the page of air in the fuel, so grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,
Steve

when i do the procedure i press the pedal a lot faster than you do, dont know if that would make any difference

johnlad said:

when i do the procedure i press the pedal a lot faster than you do, dont know if that would make any difference

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I'll give that a go John. I have tried it all kinds of speeds, fast, slow, doesn't appear to have much of an effect. Will video again tomorrow and see how we get on.

i think as has already been suggested, might need to install / improvise a fuel pressure gauge to give a more accurate picture of what is going on, because really I'm just stabbing around in the dark (quite literally as you can see).

Thanks
Steve

Hi Guys

Slight improvement today. I've videod the cold start this time as well

Discovery TD5 cold start, slight improvement - YouTube

Definitely seems to be getting better. Perhaps the air lock is eventually working itself around the system and out of the bleed? I've got to do a 600mile round trip this weekend, might take the disco and give it a good blast, see if that helps.

In the mean time I'll keep monitoring and update this thread if I find anything.

Thanks for all your help so far.

I went through this whole thread and I am a little confused now.

My defender was bought new in 2002, its a 2001 year and regularly serviced and looked after. It has been taking longer than usual crank and I hate that, it drives and idles fine otherwise.

Having said that, I replaced all the filters about two weeks ago when I undid the fuel filter, black diesel came out of it now I'm not sure if that is because the filter was too dirty since I couldn't remember when I last changed it, or if that was soot in the fuel.

I cant tell if my car has the NRV and/or the air bleeding valve since all the pipes look same to me. Please see enclosed pics and tell me which ones do I have so that I can replace them too.
I don't want to undo these fuel hose unnecessarily because I don't want to disturb a well sealed system. Also I have these breather sort of thing attached behind the left rear wheel... what is it exactly?

rear pipe nearest wheel has air bleed

check in the left outer connection...unscrew the pipe and the air bleed valve must be in there...though i dunno much abot defenders

jamesmartin said:

rear pipe nearest wheel has air bleed

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How can one tell??

So it has no non return valve? Whats the part number for the air bleed? What about the black fuel in the old diesel filter? What could cause a longer crank?

I would also like to add that I have tried waiting for about 20 seconds before starting for the air to purge but that doesn't really help either. It starts fine when warm and during the day.

I may be wrong but they all sound like signs of injectors seals gone to me, do you keep an eye on your oil level ? does it smell of diesel?

What the op is failing to tell you is in another thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/oil-red-socket-now-what-231473.html he has oil in the red plug, which could give these symptoms and should be rectified first

johnlad said:

What the op is failing to tell you is in another thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/oil-red-socket-now-what-231473.html he has oil in the red plug, which could give these symptoms and should be rectified first

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The oil in the red plug is very recent and its not too much for now. The symptoms have been there for quite some time now.

And just to confirm, I do not have NRV? Whats the part number for the air bleed valve so I can order.

Raider td5 said:

The oil in the red plug is very recent and its not too much for now. The symptoms have been there for quite some time now.

And just to confirm, I do not have NRV? Whats the part number for the air bleed valve so I can order.

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ABV is WJN500110 and you are the only one who can confirm if you have the "NRV" or not by checking out... which you should know if you would have read this whole thread cos this link is at page 5: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1597824-post8.html


and be aware that it takes quite a lot of time untill the oil reaches the red plug through the wires from a bad injector loom... so the fact that is recent is irrelevant

Hi,I have atd5 2001 it was starting with no trouble, but now it won't start and theirs no perisher at the fuel filter,and if you do get it to start it runs very rough until is warm and if you stop it and try to start it again it is still hard to start is it a fuel problem or some thing else..

Yes