So what’s the final solution???

Hi all

I really want to sort this ongoing problem on my d1 please bear with me and give me some clarification or put me rite if you can

Basically I did a 2” spring lift and fitted all other bits needed aswell but I want to sort the castor but there doesn’t seem to be an “ultimate” way of doing it. I got some arms but they over corrected everything and I think they were 6 degree not 3 but the supplier just told me I’d fitted them wrong...long story! So I’m currently on standard arms and bushes and the prop phasing and steering are acceptable but not quite rite but I want them and also the spring/shocker alignment (which is a way out) as close to rite as possible. I’ve searched and read till I’m blue in the face and found the things about re-drilling the swivels or using arms or bushes then wide angle props and all the rest of it. A lot of people seem to say that doing the swivels is the “proper” way, but I can’t find out what people are doing with spring seats as my shock adjusters are running close to my springs at the mo. Does anyone make any wedges or anything to go under the seats to put them rite or is there any other bits out there I haven’t come across? The other thing is some people seem to fit wide angle double cardan props (proper wide angle and not just think that a normal double cardan is wide angle) after fitting arms or bushes but they still have no joy with phasing

So I guess really my question is what is the complete proper way to do it, it seems to be either do the swivels and save prop angle but lose out with spring/shocker angle, or, fit arms or bushes but then run the Propshaft gauntlet??? I need to fit some new bushes anyway so at the no I’m leaning toward castor corrected bushes?

Help me out please folks

Much appreciated

Towsey

Anyone?

Has anyone had Castor correction bushes tear when off road, given the lack of bush in places?

Cheers

Towsey

Rip it all out and go back to original speck. Land Rover spent millions working their set up out.

If you must do it then modifying the axle is the better way. For different reasons I filled the existing holes in the axle end with weld and re-drilled. Others cut off the axle end and reweld it. Cut off the radius arm, anti-roll brackets and spring seats and fit new (from YRM). You'll still need a wide angle prop though.

If you do decide to do it this way I have a jig that you could borrow. Helps align the holes.

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for the offer

So by reworking the axle everything will be moved except the diff?

I was always told that having prop flanges as close to parallel as possible is better for phasing and the prop in general, even if the angle is made steeper which is obviously handled by a wide angle one and we all know how far away from parallel Land Rover front props are even when standard. Looking at mine I think the diff flange is pointing slightly higher than the tbox flange so although dropping the diff a bit will slightly increase the tbox flange angle aswell surely it will be helping the phasing in general by bringing the diff end back ‘over centre’ to the bottom side? And how does oil feed for the nose bearing come on when leaving the diff pointing so far up, would that not benefit from being a bit lower?

Sorry for all the questions I just want it sorting sure you understand

Cheers

Towsey

towsey956 said:

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for the offer

So by reworking the axle everything will be moved except the diff?

I was always told that having prop flanges as close to parallel as possible is better for phasing and the prop in general, even if the angle is made steeper which is obviously handled by a wide angle one and we all know how far away from parallel Land Rover front props are even when standard. Looking at mine I think the diff flange is pointing slightly higher than the tbox flange so although dropping the diff a bit will slightly increase the tbox flange angle aswell surely it will be helping the phasing in general by bringing the diff end back ‘over centre’ to the bottom side? And how does oil feed for the nose bearing come on when leaving the diff pointing so far up, would that not benefit from being a bit lower?

Sorry for all the questions I just want it sorting sure you understand

Cheers

Towsey

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I was always told props should not have a third angle, but have seen many vehicles with props running 3rd angles, I guess it depends on how severe that third angle is, and hpw many miles you do in the car?
Ie if its a toy, who cares.
Road going motor doing miles then it wants to be right.

I learnt my lesson years ago, keep std unless you like spending money and time to make it work.

towsey956 said:

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for the offer

So by reworking the axle everything will be moved except the diff?

I was always told that having prop flanges as close to parallel as possible is better for phasing and the prop in general, even if the angle is made steeper which is obviously handled by a wide angle one and we all know how far away from parallel Land Rover front props are even when standard. Looking at mine I think the diff flange is pointing slightly higher than the tbox flange so although dropping the diff a bit will slightly increase the tbox flange angle aswell surely it will be helping the phasing in general by bringing the diff end back ‘over centre’ to the bottom side? And how does oil feed for the nose bearing come on when leaving the diff pointing so far up, would that not benefit from being a bit lower?

Sorry for all the questions I just want it sorting sure you understand

Cheers

Towsey

Click to expand...

props using ujs do need to be parallel angle isnt the issue so to counter act not been in parallel you put them out of phase the degrees depend on the difference

Thanks for replies

Yeah it’s my daily driver which we ride round in with kids so would like it to be rite. Just wondering why if reworking the axle still leaves you needing a wide angle prop anyway then why not just fit castor arms or bushes and have the flanges in a healthier place and get the oil to the bearing better then play with the phasing, which I’ve done anyway on the standard bushes. Is it the difference between just needing a normal wide angle prop and needing a wide angle double cardan prop, because if that’s what it takes to be rite then so be it

Thanks again

Towsey

If ever there was a list of ways to ruin a Land Rover, suspension lifts and Tonka toy wheels would be near the top.

Yep absolutely but when ya keep getting stuck doin certain jobs then ya lift it and fit different tyres then stop getting stuck you obviously gain something somewhere?! Not sure I’d call 8x16’s Tonka toy wheels tho!

towsey956 said:

Thanks for replies

Yeah it’s my daily driver which we ride round in with kids so would like it to be rite. Just wondering why if reworking the axle still leaves you needing a wide angle prop anyway then why not just fit castor arms or bushes and have the flanges in a healthier place and get the oil to the bearing better then play with the phasing, which I’ve done anyway on the standard bushes. Is it the difference between just needing a normal wide angle prop and needing a wide angle double cardan prop, because if that’s what it takes to be rite then so be it

Thanks again

Towsey

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The rear diff points up a little so that it's more or less level when loaded. Flanges are then parallel so it gets in in-phase propshaft. The front is a different story. If LR had done the same as at the back the angles the prop would be bent at (because the distance is so short) would mean special ujs. That could be avoided if they went angled and out of phase. A production compromise.

The reason that you need the wide angle props is that although you'd have corrected the diffs, the angle they bend through would be larger, and as on the front diff, a standard uj can't cope. Or not for long anyway.

Cheers

I get wide angle joints and phasing, I’ve sorted the phasing for how it’s set up now although I still need to get a wide angle front prop, I’m just keen to find out why people say the proper way is to re drill swivels then maybe or maybe not re-weld every part of the axle so they can leave the diff nose pointing to the sky struggling for oil rather than using arms or bushes and correct the lot in one go (I get some arms are poo and castor bushes can fail sooner off road because there’s less rubber in certain directions etc)?

Is it that by leaving the diff pointing up you can get away with a single cardan wide angle prop and sort the phasing whereas by bringing the diff down the phasing is harder to sort needing a double cardan wide angle prop, or by leaving the diff up a wide angle has spare degrees of movement left but when it’s brought down they run to their full potential...just wondering what the reasons are behind it

Please don’t think I’m knocking or doubting this method at all it’s just that there’s been a few things over the years that people have been persistent about being the right way to do things then when you try it your cars terrible, I’m just trying to gather as much info as possible and hopefully do it once and it drive well on the road

Thanks again

Towsey

You can get Britpart swivels that are drilled to correct the castor angle.

Yeah seen them, cheers tho

Towsey

towsey956 said:

Cheers

I get wide angle joints and phasing, I’ve sorted the phasing for how it’s set up now although I still need to get a wide angle front prop, I’m just keen to find out why people say the proper way is to re drill swivels then maybe or maybe not re-weld every part of the axle so they can leave the diff nose pointing to the sky struggling for oil rather than using arms or bushes and correct the lot in one go (I get some arms are poo and castor bushes can fail sooner off road because there’s less rubber in certain directions etc)?

Is it that by leaving the diff pointing up you can get away with a single cardan wide angle prop and sort the phasing whereas by bringing the diff down the phasing is harder to sort needing a double cardan wide angle prop, or by leaving the diff up a wide angle has spare degrees of movement left but when it’s brought down they run to their full potential...just wondering what the reasons are behind it

Please don’t think I’m knocking or doubting this method at all it’s just that there’s been a few things over the years that people have been persistent about being the right way to do things then when you try it your cars terrible, I’m just trying to gather as much info as possible and hopefully do it once and it drive well on the road

Thanks again

Towsey

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what I was smoking when I wrote my first reply, but it's horribly confused between what I needed to do and what you want to do.

The important thing to get right after lifting is the castor angle. The there's the angle of the spring seats, damper mounts and at the back the A frame. Next is the diff angle, while last is the small decrease in wheelbase. I don't need to say that the real biggy is the raised centre of gravity.

You can get the castor right, very cheaply, by welding up the holes and re-drilling the balls. Better to fit correcting arms to sort the diff and spring seats angle's too. No idea if they've corrected the wheelbase in designing them. I agree with you on the bushes, horrible idea.

You could (and it might be a good idea if the axle is horribly rusted) put new brackets on and correct castor and diff. That won't fix the wheelbase.

Doing only the balls, by welding/drilling or buying 'corrected' ones, will leave the diff pointing higher and all the suspension brackets out of kilter. The phase angle will need changing - wide angle ujs won't fix that. The nose bearings won't suffer though, the amount of oil the diff will fling around will be far more than they need.

I had to weld/drill the balls AND do all the bracketry for completely different reasons. I'm not lifting the car. Apologies.

Cheers

I’ve got 4xforce rear arms on that are adjustable so back end seems fine

To be honest in my eyes reworking the whole axle but leaving the diff pointing up isn’t the best thing, but I’m happy to be told otherwise if it comes with a decent ‘why’

I know what does what and how, just wondering about the why’s, as said earlier just want it to drive ok on road as at the end of the day that’s it’s main job really

Thanks

Towsey