RR Classic vs P38

OK, this isn't a "which is better" thread, just an observation! At lunchtime today I went out in a P38 so took the opportunity to compare it to my own RRC softdash.

I was surprised how much more 'solid' the P38 felt than the RRC, both in terms of interior trim and also driving. The whole car feels much more planted, and there's much less rattle and shaking from the steering going over potholes and speed bumps in the P38 than in my own car - why is this? Could it be a sign that things need replacing on mine?

Secondly, there's a lot more space - particularly in the rear seats and boot. I am actually amazed how short on legroom the standard RRC is - I see why they introduced the LSE now! Whey did they make it so short, why not 105" all along - somewhere between the SE and LSE?

Lastly - I still think the RRC looks classier

il be interested in this, never been in a classic, but always aspired to own one somewhen, and having just bought a p38 a couple of days ago im just getting to know and learn about and used to, intersting reading your post, coz if a nice diesel classic had been within reason viewing distance and was nice, i would probably of bought it, but ive got a nice p38 thats exceptional condition fo the year judgign by others ive seen inc one 4 years newer today, im delighted with it and dearly hope it goes on to be rock solid for me if i lok after it like previous owners have

with regard to interior trim, feels, noises, comfort,seats,....its an older car so things that were "nice" and top of the range, when it was being designed some years before p38`s, have come a lot further when newer models, and cars in general, years later, especialy with luxury 4x4s, its to be expected isnt it ?

both **** compared to most slittys if we are honest but hey ho we love fookin about with rust and eas every week dont we :doh:

MikeV8SE said:

OK, this isn't a "which is better" thread, just an observation! At lunchtime today I went out in a P38 so took the opportunity to compare it to my own RRC softdash.

I was surprised how much more 'solid' the P38 felt than the RRC, both in terms of interior trim and also driving. The whole car feels much more planted, and there's much less rattle and shaking from the steering going over potholes and speed bumps in the P38 than in my own car - why is this? Could it be a sign that things need replacing on mine?

Secondly, there's a lot more space - particularly in the rear seats and boot. I am actually amazed how short on legroom the standard RRC is - I see why they introduced the LSE now! Whey did they make it so short, why not 105" all along - somewhere between the SE and LSE?

Lastly - I still think the RRC looks classier

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Classicer maybe classier never.

It's not just an age thing, my classic was only a couple of years old when I owned it, my 10 year old P38 is far, far more refined and rattle free. I much prefer it as a car. As I've said in another thread, I think the P38 is spot on, not too big, not too small, not too off or on-road biased - I adore my P38, I liked my old Vogue SE 3.9 but it didn't get into my heart - if someone nicked it I'd be annoyed about having to find change for the bus. If my P38 went missing I'd be gutted.

As for the other comment the "slitty" stuff is soulless crap. My mate's owned from new, FSH, Land Cruiser is on its 3rd cylinder head - it hasn't even done 100K miles! So much for Jap reliability, it feels like a domestic appliance, functional but that's it.

you sure it was a lancruiser or do you mean I hilux surf? some peeps get easly confused as they look much the same but the surf is a lot smaller in person than the landcruiser. if we are talking about the 80 series cruiser 1990-1996/7 which are the same as the classic and p38 age cars the heads dont crack on the 24v petrol or the 12v diesel so not sure what your talking about there mate.

fett said:

you sure it was a lancruiser or do you mean I hilux surf? some peeps get easly confused as they look much the same but the surf is a lot smaller in person than the landcruiser. if we are talking about the 90 series cruiser 1990-1996/7 which are the same as the classic and p38 age cars the heads dont crack on the 24v petrol or the 12v diesel so not sure what your talking about there mate.

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Actually I just remember it's done 110K miles, yes it is a Landcruiser, a 2001 (although it was an older model on a pre-reg if I remember rightly coz he got it cheap) it's a diesel.

Just done a google search on landcruiser and cracked cylinder head, first post was "what car's" review: Used Toyota L'cruiser Amazon 4x4 Car Review - Full Review - What Car?

Point 1 was watch out for cracked cylinder heads which cost £2,500 to repair - well, well...

that can be either the 90 or 100 series in the artical if you look at the years, which I wasnt speaking of.

the 4.2 diesel and the 4.5 petrol in the 80 series cruisers dont crack heads. go on to the european landcuiser owners forum and ask if you want. I spent a lot of time there and talked to one hell of a lot of owners and not once was this mentioned. even when I asked specifically.
I looked at quite a few but didnt want to spend that kind of cash for a run about and green laner. , the reason a 1990 d with 150+k will still go for £3500 to £6000. that money tells you how good they are.

you wont see many 1990 range rovers for more than £800 - I know becuase I have just sold one.

Having driven both they just dont compare
however the 2.4 td heads on the hilux surfs ar known for it.

fett said:

that can be either the 90 or 100 series in the artical if you look at the years, which I wasnt speaking of.

the 4.2 diesel and the 4.5 petrol in the 80 series cruisers dont crack heads. go on to the european landcuiser owners forum and ask if you want. I spent a lot of time there and talked to one hell of a lot of owners and not once was this mentioned. even when I asked specifically.
I looked at quite a few but didnt want to spend that kind of cash for a run about and green laner. , the reason a 1990 d with 150+k will still go for £3500 to £6000. that money tells you how good they are.

you wont see many 1990 range rovers for more than £800 - I know becuase I have just sold one.

Having driven both they just dont compare
however the 2.4 td heads on the hilux surfs ar known for it.

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The fact that they are becoming rare could point towards most have rotted away or fallen foul to one big bill too many. They are nice but I would still rather have my DSE.

not rare, just sought after for overland expiditions.

they dont rot at all, less rot on a non undersealed 1990 cruiser than 1/4 of a front inner wing on a 1990 rr

Run a 2000 P38(er indoors) and a 1992 LSE (mine). Driving the P38 after my Classic is like getting in a Roller, far more refined. But I still prefer the Classic.

The only sleepless night with a Classic is the one before the MOT, where as with a P38 every day has the potential to be a bad one (although ours has been fairly reliable)

We've driven them both to Southern Spain and back with no issues, except when you come back to the LSE after a tea stop there are often lots of French people admiring it and taking photos, where as the P38 used to get no such attention. That could just be the rarity of seeing a Classic in France.

Causing some grief at home at the moment. In these difficult economic times its hard to justify running 2 gas guzzlers and 1 of them should really go for something more frugal, but I won't part with the Classic and er indoors luvs her P38. So it all could end in the divorce courts!!! But at least there won't be any arguments over who gets what Rangie

fett said:

not rare, just sought after for overland expiditions.

they dont rot at all, less rot on a non undersealed 1990 cruiser than 1/4 of a front inner wing on a 1990 rr

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Which planet do you live on mate. I work in the body repair sector and you are telling me what doesn't rot:doh: The reason that Land Cruisers are getting rare is because 1. They were never that popular and didn't sell well in the uk. 2 They prove too expensive to fix as they age. You cant compare a 1990 Range Rover to a 1990 Land Cruiser because the Range Rover design dates back to 1969 when little emphasis was given to rust prevention anyway.

MikeV8SE said:

I was surprised how much more 'solid' the P38 felt than the RRC, both in terms of interior trim and also driving. The whole car feels much more planted, and there's much less rattle and shaking from the steering going over potholes and speed bumps

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you get the same magnitude of improvement and refinement going from the P38 to a L322. had a brand new one from work for a while and it was incredible. just don't like the looks from the outside, too brash for my taste.

For me, there is no contest. The RRC is a proper Range Rover and the P38 is a monstrosity. To me, it doesn't matter how it drives, the P38 is the one and only Land Rover of any kind that I have zero desire to own. That's just my taste (or lack of it!) though. We're all different.

Rob Edge said:

Which planet do you live on mate. I work in the body repair sector and you are telling me what doesn't rot:doh: The reason that Land Cruisers are getting rare is because 1. They were never that popular and didn't sell well in the uk. 2 They prove too expensive to fix as they age. You cant compare a 1990 Range Rover to a 1990 Land Cruiser because the Range Rover design dates back to 1969 when little emphasis was given to rust prevention anyway.

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I thought the reason for Classics rusting so much was because of the chemical reaction between the Alloy body panels and steel chassis?

That's why so many look tidy from the outside and so rotten when you get underneath and have a look.

fortgrange said:

I thought the reason for Classics rusting so much was because of the chemical reaction between the Alloy body panels and steel chassis?

That's why so many look tidy from the outside and so rotten when you get underneath and have a look.

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A lot of the bits that rot are nowhere near any alloy, it's just British Standard crap quality. The P38 is not much better IMO, just younger. Already on 10 year old cars there are cases of brake pipes failing due to rust, that is unforgivable. Serve LR right if some litigation happy Yank sues the socks off them.

As Fett says, to be brutally honest niether the RRC or the P38 compare well with newer slittys.

Regards the choice between a classic or a P38....

Much depends upon which you prefer....spannering and dealing with rust, or auto electronics and dealing with failed circuit boards?!

Rob Edge said:

Which planet do you live on mate. I work in the body repair sector and you are telling me what doesn't rot:doh: The reason that Land Cruisers are getting rare is because 1. They were never that popular and didn't sell well in the uk. 2 They prove too expensive to fix as they age. You cant compare a 1990 Range Rover to a 1990 Land Cruiser because the Range Rover design dates back to 1969 when little emphasis was given to rust prevention anyway.

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classic ran untill 95 and 80 series cruiser ran untill 96 so they are comparable. earlier cruisers did rot- 80 series dont. they wernt as popular here much like lexus wernt then but are still excellent cars with good engines and no rot in the 1990's. they are far more popular in coutries A. closer to where they are produced and B. and far more importantly where uber relibaliity is key. such as all desert countries and the outback of aussie and NZ.

dont get me wrong untill last week I had 3 rrc but they are not as good and niither is the p38. it doesnt mean we cant like them.

ive done plenty of body repair on range rovers thanks- just rebuilt a 72 rrc no panels bought all made by hand and spent enought time crawling around and poking bottom budget 80 series cruiser all round the uk in recent months to know rust is not an issue on them. certainly not in the same it is on rrc. also landcruisers dont have to worry about eas hevac etc they just work. looked at two with over 300k miles on them. never seen a range rover with that many miles on an orginal unstirpped engine or at all. so shut the **** up.

joe1972 said:

As Fett says, to be brutally honest niether the RRC or the P38 compare well with newer slittys.

Regards the choice between a classic or a P38....

Much depends upon which you prefer....spannering and dealing with rust, or auto electronics and dealing with failed circuit boards?!

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well said joe!