Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
Lemfórder wishbones can be had for around £95 ea. Delphi are around £65 ea and would be my first choice. Delphi are the wishbones FL1 originally came from the factory with.
Freelander 1 Return of the (Land) Rovers: Kilo-Hippo-Delta
- Thread starter rob_bell
- Start date
This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
Lemfórder wishbones can be had for around £95 ea. Delphi are around £65 ea and would be my first choice. Delphi are the wishbones FL1 originally came from the factory with.
Busy weekend for the Freelander. First stop was to visit Philip, the originator of the pscan.eu diagnostic box.
He has a T4, so we were able to run some diagnostics on Saturday. I have intermittent three amigos, with early activation of the TC on the left front wheel and also occasionally of the ABS.
The historical errors were shown as thus:
We cleared the errors and went for a drive with the live data. No pictures of this page as I was driving, but essentially the longitudinal accelerometer gave no signal whatsoever and the right front ABS sensor was throwing slightly erratic speed signals.
No surprise that the HDC was confused. One erratic occasionally appropriate wheel speed signal and no corroborative data from the accelerometer.
The ABS sensor fault I hope is the sensor (it's been changed before and the cable is not the correct one for a Freelander front hub) but it could as realistically be a cracked reluctor ring. How challenging are these to change?
The accelerometer fault is odd. Is it dead or has it become disconnected? Will need to investigate further. I guess I'll need to take off the central chubby box to access?
He has a T4, so we were able to run some diagnostics on Saturday. I have intermittent three amigos, with early activation of the TC on the left front wheel and also occasionally of the ABS.
The historical errors were shown as thus:
We cleared the errors and went for a drive with the live data. No pictures of this page as I was driving, but essentially the longitudinal accelerometer gave no signal whatsoever and the right front ABS sensor was throwing slightly erratic speed signals.
No surprise that the HDC was confused. One erratic occasionally appropriate wheel speed signal and no corroborative data from the accelerometer.
The ABS sensor fault I hope is the sensor (it's been changed before and the cable is not the correct one for a Freelander front hub) but it could as realistically be a cracked reluctor ring. How challenging are these to change?
The accelerometer fault is odd. Is it dead or has it become disconnected? Will need to investigate further. I guess I'll need to take off the central chubby box to access?
Last edited:
That evening I drive up to Wiltshire and the next day spent getting the Hippo muddy on Salisbury Plain with a group of Landy Zone guys (big thanks to Dan for organising and to Neil and Shaun for great company). I think everyone was suitably impressed with it driving through the mud. Nothing to do with my driving skills, but more to do with the fundamental "rightness" of the AWD and the tyres (Yoko Geolander AT-S - standard size 215/65 R16) 
The intermittent HDC function didn't hinder too much, but certainly helped when I got beached in a deeper than anticipated rut. Had to rock back and forth, but the Hippo clambered out
A couple of pictures:
The intermittent HDC function didn't hinder too much, but certainly helped when I got beached in a deeper than anticipated rut. Had to rock back and forth, but the Hippo clambered out
A couple of pictures:
Last edited:
Unfortunately the plastic under tray has been ripped off. Time to replace with an alloy plate I think.
What thickness? 5mm?
Hopefully should be able to get a local engineering shop to help out with this.
The other problem encountered (1.8 petrol remember) was that after the undertray was lost, the spark got rather weaker leading to a misfire. Really noticeable on the A303 on the way home - to the extent that I feared that the Hippo might actually come to a halt, but it cleared itself and then cruised comfortably home all the way (110miles).
I suspect that the HT leads got damp due to the lack of an undertray. The HT leads (short ones from the coil packs to two of the plugs) probably need replacing (thinking of Magnecore) - but is there any additional "weather proofing" I can do?
What thickness? 5mm?
Hopefully should be able to get a local engineering shop to help out with this.
The other problem encountered (1.8 petrol remember) was that after the undertray was lost, the spark got rather weaker leading to a misfire. Really noticeable on the A303 on the way home - to the extent that I feared that the Hippo might actually come to a halt, but it cleared itself and then cruised comfortably home all the way (110miles).
I suspect that the HT leads got damp due to the lack of an undertray. The HT leads (short ones from the coil packs to two of the plugs) probably need replacing (thinking of Magnecore) - but is there any additional "weather proofing" I can do?
Last edited:
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
It's interesting that there is a gearbox TCM CAN error flagged up. You'd have thought the ABS ECU would know there's no TCM data on the CAN and ignore it. It's not getting engine ECU data either.
The accelerometer is under the center console, near the handbrake mount. I've seen them disconnected before now. However I don't think HDC works if it is disconnected. It says the output is implausible. That would suggest that it is faulty. It's easy to swap out if it is.
Looks like you had fun in Wiltshire. It's got miles of good green lanes there.
Yokohama AT'S are good tyres for general laning.
If extra water protection is needed. You can run a bead of silicone around the plug cover. It's not perfect, but will help against splashing onto the engine.
Hi Nodge,
The gearbox CAN fault is bizarre, but has been cleared and hasn't recurred. Similar to the ECU CAN fault. The ECU output to the sensor is appropriate, and live data demonstrates a good HDC ECU communication with the engine ECU.
Will do a visual inspection of the sensor and its connector. If connected, I'll aim to replace. Worth a gamble on second hand, or should I bite the expensive bullet an get a new one? Part number SSB101331 I believe?
The gearbox CAN fault is bizarre, but has been cleared and hasn't recurred. Similar to the ECU CAN fault. The ECU output to the sensor is appropriate, and live data demonstrates a good HDC ECU communication with the engine ECU.
Will do a visual inspection of the sensor and its connector. If connected, I'll aim to replace. Worth a gamble on second hand, or should I bite the expensive bullet an get a new one? Part number SSB101331 I believe?
PS Thanks for the Geolander recommendation. They behaved faultlessly - absolutely no real hint that they struggled in the muddy conditions encountered!
I'll look into what can be done regarding sealing the spark plug cover - but having an intact undertray probably would make the most difference if I am honest
I'll look into what can be done regarding sealing the spark plug cover - but having an intact undertray probably would make the most difference if I am honest
td4van
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 1,566
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Doesn't the instrument pack receive the gearbox switch information on the later cars and transmits it over CAN to the ABS hence the fault code - not got access to technical info to check that out currently
Good luck with the other items!
Good luck with the other items!
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
Correct. The Ipack is the data exchange for all components on the CAN bus.
Will be exchanging the faulty G-sensor and will be popping the car back on Testbook to review the error codes and calibrate the sensor. Will see if the CAN-bus related error recurs, but it appeared historical.
Interestingly, when we connected Phil's T4 up to the diagnostic port (which is a real pain in the proverbial, owing to the need to change the cable three times so that Testbook can read all the ECUs), it started to ask to reconfigure the error storage. This T4 has a 2004 version of the software, so it looks as though it hasn't been connected up to the official Rover/Land Rover tool for at least 12 years... Plenty of time for plenty of weird and wonderful historial ECU errors to be stored!
Interestingly, when we connected Phil's T4 up to the diagnostic port (which is a real pain in the proverbial, owing to the need to change the cable three times so that Testbook can read all the ECUs), it started to ask to reconfigure the error storage. This T4 has a 2004 version of the software, so it looks as though it hasn't been connected up to the official Rover/Land Rover tool for at least 12 years... Plenty of time for plenty of weird and wonderful historial ECU errors to be stored!
Not got a lot done on my Hippo recently - largely thanks to work schedules and last week being half term. I have bought a replacement front ABS sensor and a Yaw sensor, so hopefully will be able to get rid of the intermittent appearance of the three Amigos. My neighbour has taken delivery of a set of Magnecor HT leads which should, I hope, help eliminate the intermittent misfire. And I need to replace the poor quality Bearmach drop link on the offside front, which has knocked from the day I fitted it (argh!)
But the weekend took a rather different course to what I had expected (I had planned to get working on the above job list).
Saturday was a lovely day, so I took off the hard top, and drove with the family to gawp at the new Discovery 5. Blimey, it's HUGE. I know it isn't meant to be much larger than the Disco 3/4, but it looks it. And the inside is commodious. In HSE Lux trim, it is a lovely place to sit...
Anyway, day dreaming to one side, the Hippo must have been intimidated by it's newer brethren, because when we got back to Muswell Hill from Barnet, on stopping the engine, there was this odd bubbling noise from the right windscreen base. I popped the bonnet to discover the source of the noise was bubbles of coolant being ejected into an empty coolant bottle.
K-series engine.
Predictable thought: oh no, has the head gasket gone again??!??!
Put some water in it, bleed it and drove it home. Parked it up, and couldn't face further investigation until the next day...
So Sunday was spent scratching my head: had I done something wrong during the head rebuild? It's got a good quality head gasket (Payen "blue"), the head had been peened and skimmed and I'd corrected all the mistakes made by a previous "mechanic". I couldn't think what could have gone wrong: there was no coolant in the oil (spotless), and no sign of external water leakage.
On re-bleeding the cooling system, some horrid gunge came through the by pass pipe. Black debris - may be lime scale? Slight oily residue on the surface of the coolant.
I re-bleed a few times. Ran the engine. Took it out for several test drives, really gunning through the revs (which the K-series in a Freelander doesn't enjoy as much as the same engine in the MG). Basically abusing it to see whether I could get it to loose coolant again.
Basically it hasn't lost anything.
Running the engine with the heater on full and the fan speed set at 2 is sufficient to keep the engine temperature under control when the vehicle is stationary. Turning the heater valve off leads to the usual fluctuating temperature: a slight fluctuation in the coolant level in the expansion tank:it goes up a fraction when hot, associated with an increase in the coolant pressure, as felt through the "hardness" of the upper radiator hose to squeezing and then falls again when the radiator fan brings the temperature down again.
It's odd. The expansion tank is holding pressure, and there seems to be no excess pressurisation with high revs (a sure-fire sign of fire ring failure - the only potential source of water loss I can think of here). The only thing I can imagine the problem might be is that there was an air lock with some old gunge - perhaps related to an earlier head gasket failure - that has randomly been dislodged and run through. And the appearance of the particles of crud in the expansion tank may fit with this.
What I need to do is to flush the system through. Perhaps with some detergent? Then re-fill with fresh coolant/antifreeze.
My family thinks that the Hippo was trying to fight back at the thought of being traded in for a Discovery! LOL Little chance of that me thinks...
But the weekend took a rather different course to what I had expected (I had planned to get working on the above job list).
Saturday was a lovely day, so I took off the hard top, and drove with the family to gawp at the new Discovery 5. Blimey, it's HUGE. I know it isn't meant to be much larger than the Disco 3/4, but it looks it. And the inside is commodious. In HSE Lux trim, it is a lovely place to sit...
Anyway, day dreaming to one side, the Hippo must have been intimidated by it's newer brethren, because when we got back to Muswell Hill from Barnet, on stopping the engine, there was this odd bubbling noise from the right windscreen base. I popped the bonnet to discover the source of the noise was bubbles of coolant being ejected into an empty coolant bottle.
K-series engine.
Predictable thought: oh no, has the head gasket gone again??!??!
Put some water in it, bleed it and drove it home. Parked it up, and couldn't face further investigation until the next day...
So Sunday was spent scratching my head: had I done something wrong during the head rebuild? It's got a good quality head gasket (Payen "blue"), the head had been peened and skimmed and I'd corrected all the mistakes made by a previous "mechanic". I couldn't think what could have gone wrong: there was no coolant in the oil (spotless), and no sign of external water leakage.
On re-bleeding the cooling system, some horrid gunge came through the by pass pipe. Black debris - may be lime scale? Slight oily residue on the surface of the coolant.
I re-bleed a few times. Ran the engine. Took it out for several test drives, really gunning through the revs (which the K-series in a Freelander doesn't enjoy as much as the same engine in the MG). Basically abusing it to see whether I could get it to loose coolant again.
Basically it hasn't lost anything.
Running the engine with the heater on full and the fan speed set at 2 is sufficient to keep the engine temperature under control when the vehicle is stationary. Turning the heater valve off leads to the usual fluctuating temperature: a slight fluctuation in the coolant level in the expansion tank:it goes up a fraction when hot, associated with an increase in the coolant pressure, as felt through the "hardness" of the upper radiator hose to squeezing and then falls again when the radiator fan brings the temperature down again.
It's odd. The expansion tank is holding pressure, and there seems to be no excess pressurisation with high revs (a sure-fire sign of fire ring failure - the only potential source of water loss I can think of here). The only thing I can imagine the problem might be is that there was an air lock with some old gunge - perhaps related to an earlier head gasket failure - that has randomly been dislodged and run through. And the appearance of the particles of crud in the expansion tank may fit with this.
What I need to do is to flush the system through. Perhaps with some detergent? Then re-fill with fresh coolant/antifreeze.
My family thinks that the Hippo was trying to fight back at the thought of being traded in for a Discovery! LOL Little chance of that me thinks...
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
Did the temp gauge go into the red when it boiled its coolant?
No sign of any over heating - not that this is always a helpful sign as you know Nodge: I've had an engine dump all its coolant and it never showed evidence of a high temperature because the sensor was in an air pocket! Sadly the head was cooked...
I spent most of yesterday trying to reproduce the coolant loss, all with no avail...
I spent most of yesterday trying to reproduce the coolant loss, all with no avail...
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
It can happen that the air pocket is around the sensor, so affecting the reading.
I'm assuming you have the PRT stat. Maybe it had a slight airlock, preventing the stat from opening. This could affect circulation at low speeds. Quite why that would manifest itself some considerable time after the rebuild, is a mystery?
Alibro
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 7,026
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Could a clot working it's way round the coolant system have caused it? Maybe some old Kseal or similar becoming dislodged.
It's a non PRT system. I don't think it is the stat that is the problem (it's done 1000 faultless miles so far) but I do wonder about a collected gunge somewhere in the circuit - perhaps even in the radiator?
Good thought: I wouldn't be surprised given what I found during the engine rebuild. K-seal would be more small particulates?? I am not sure what to expect?
Alibro
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 7,026
- Location
- Northern Ireland
I think Kseal has thousands of little strands of copperwire and gives off a smell a bit like putty or linseed oil.
At least that's what I found in my last K series.
At least that's what I found in my last K series.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 32,504
- Location
- Near Newquay
It is possible that some contaminant got lodged in the stat sense pipe. If this pipe blocks, the thermostat won't open early enough, so the water boils.
The PRT is the best stat to use for the Freelander
You're absolutely right about the PRT
No further coolant loss, so for the moment I remain slightly stumped and a little anxious. I need to plan another road trip and regain my lost confidence in the car!
Less fettling time than expected this weekend, but I think I've finally cracked the annoying misfire!
After the fun over Salusbury Plain, loss of under tray and subsequent spectacular misfire, I took the HT cover off today to change the HT leads for nice new Magnecore ones (I've had brilliant experience these over the years).
This is what I found:
There is mud around the coil pack and down the #1 spark plug hole!!!
The new HT leads certainly helped the cold running enormously. But when warm, one of the coil packs started misbehaving again. The error codes and live data feed provided the necessary confirmation that it was the pack that had been bathed in mud that was misbehaving (it was playing up before, so it wasn't just Wiltshire mud causing problems!)
A fresh coil pack was restored sweet running to this Hippo.
Still to sort:
1. OSF drop link
2. Both front lower wishbones
3. OSF ABS sensor +/- a yaw sensor (the latter may just need recalibration G?)
4. VCU support bearings
Get this lot done and I've got a nicely sorted Hippo!
No further coolant loss, so for the moment I remain slightly stumped and a little anxious. I need to plan another road trip and regain my lost confidence in the car!
Less fettling time than expected this weekend, but I think I've finally cracked the annoying misfire!
After the fun over Salusbury Plain, loss of under tray and subsequent spectacular misfire, I took the HT cover off today to change the HT leads for nice new Magnecore ones (I've had brilliant experience these over the years).
This is what I found:
There is mud around the coil pack and down the #1 spark plug hole!!!
The new HT leads certainly helped the cold running enormously. But when warm, one of the coil packs started misbehaving again. The error codes and live data feed provided the necessary confirmation that it was the pack that had been bathed in mud that was misbehaving (it was playing up before, so it wasn't just Wiltshire mud causing problems!)
A fresh coil pack was restored sweet running to this Hippo.
Still to sort:
1. OSF drop link
2. Both front lower wishbones
3. OSF ABS sensor +/- a yaw sensor (the latter may just need recalibration G?)
4. VCU support bearings
Get this lot done and I've got a nicely sorted Hippo!
Last edited:
