Reoccurring MOT fails

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QRHcooper

QRHcooper

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Posts
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Thringstone
Gentlemen, Ladies or Non Gender specific people may I draw upon your combined knowledge of all that is Disco 2 and make the following assumptions?

As some of you may be aware I am looking at purchasing a Disco 2, hopefully sometime next week. I work away from the UK and I have yet to clap eyes upon any of those I fancy in the flesh so, I have been reduced to perusing these, for the most part, excellent pages with a gentle feeling of envy and fear in equal measure so as to better arm myself for the near inevitable issues and to have a deeper understanding when it comes to kicking tyres on the for-court!

Having looked into a number of vehicles and noting the MOT history I have noticed a familiar theme throughout...

1- Brake pipes slightly corroded Leads to a MOT fail when severe
2- Track rod end ball joints has excessive play Leads to a MOT fail when severe
3- Headlamp aim too high Leads to a MOT fail - Appears to be reoccurring issue??
4- o/s rear wheel binding slightly What is this???
5- Tyres wearing inner edges I am assuming worn rubber joints??
6- Rear Vehicle structure has slight corrosion Inherent issues!!

This is by no means a comprehensive list of what I have found as I have only just scratched the ginger fuzz off the surface ;) If you would like to add to what I can only begin to fathom would be a rather large list of MOT failure points, please comment below and I will add them as and when I have time!

Tah very much
Coops :)





 
QRHcooper said:
Having looked into a number of vehicles and noting the MOT history I have noticed a familiar theme throughout...

1- Brake pipes slightly corroded Leads to a MOT fail when severe
2- Track rod end ball joints has excessive play Leads to a MOT fail when severe
3- Headlamp aim too high Leads to a MOT fail - Appears to be reoccurring issue??
4- o/s rear wheel binding slightly What is this???
5- Tyres wearing inner edges I am assuming worn rubber joints??
6- Rear Vehicle structure has slight corrosion Inherent issues!!
Click to expand...

My knowledge of D2's (I had a D1, now a 90) is that I borrowed my mate Tims for a few times and loved the V8 and the ACE. I know they rust the rear of the chassis for fun, but that most of the issues you highlight would appear to be me lack of maintenance, suggesting that people drive 'em, leave on the drive, then drive 'em again, possibly sending to a garage foe an oil change occasionally, if they're lucky.

Your points in order ... as I see them anyway, but I'm not necessarily a 'standard' D2 user ... ;)

1- yes it does ... lack of maintenance, user failure
2- Lack of maintenance ... user failure, if they can't feel the extra play/knocking/sticking/wandering when they're steering they're ignorant of driving skills.
3- Headlamp aim too high ... definitely ****wittery from the user, easy to see, easy to change.
4- This is pretty genuine across Landrovers, it seems. Offside rear brake pistons seem to catch more gunk and tend to gum up more regularly than any other caliper. I've (though mine is used on lanes a lot more than road) changed pistons a couple of times then just replaced the whole caliper a month ago.
5- Yes, generally poor suspension bushes, but basically lack of maintenance.
6- Yes, they rust the rear end for Britain ... just keep on top of it ... ;)
 
As above - @Paul D nailed it:)

IMHO, up to and including the D2, LR made fine vehicles* Most of what you see in terms of MOT failures is due the muppet who owns the vehicle not doing maintenance - which also IMHO is because the previous owner CBA :rolleyes:

I know sheeple who use the MOT as a way of finding out how much they need to do to keep it on the road for the next 12 months - and that is all the vehicle gets... nothing more - not even a bl**dy oil change. Morons the lot of em - also IMHO :p

Repeated failures on stuff like tyres are a sure sign of stupidity.

Have you considered re-importing one from Japan - where there is no road salt - it would probably tie you to a V8, but the thing will be rust free, and maintained to the high Japanese standards..... ?

@neilly , good guy that he is has produced a check list for D2 purchase, and you'll find it with a search, he'll probably attach it to this thread to - given that I've just tagged him :)

* = My experience of more modern "stuff" is limited, and will remain so. It wasn't good:(
 
With track rod ends (and all ball joints) they wear gradually and there is obviously going to be some personal judgement in how much is acceptable. Grease is packed under the rubber boot when new to help prevent water getting in and reducing the life of the joint. This grease will eventually disappear but no-one is going to inject more there. They are wearable items but they are built a lot better now. It wasn't unusual for them to get replaced within five years in the past but they can last the lifetime of the vehicle now. Modern reliability did for the production of replacements in the factory I worked at and in the end the machinery was shipped off to India and the firm produces them there.
 
I'd agree with all the previous contributer's comments, especially @Disco1BFG when he mentioned those who use the MoT as a means of keeping a wreck on the road for another 12 months, we've all seen it. There are some of us who treat a straight pass as a tribute to our efforts of care and attention to our vehicles. As for things which require no prior training, such as lights, tyres, windscreen cracks, wipers and washers, etc. those muppets don't deserve to own a vehicle, such a lack of very basic maintenance could present a risk to the rest of us.

Uneven tyre wear, such as on the inner edges is more usually down to incorrect steering set-up, rather than just wear in steering components, although wear does have adverse effects. I was once told by a "tyre specialist" that the uneven wear I was suffering on a vehicle was because it was fitted with power steering, yeah?! I eventually convinced him to set the toe-in as I wanted and after that I had no more uneven wear problems.

Regarding "sealed for life" components, well, that's a great "get out" for manufacturers, when a component fails, that's the end of it's life. Greaseable components such as track rod ends and U/Js are often quite easily available, and will last very much longer, provided that, once again they have been properly maintained.

@neilly's buying guide is at https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/handy-buying-alarm-info.311291/

Regarding recurring advisories or failures, it's now easy for an owner to check the previous MoT test results and make a judgement based on those results, but a tester is not required to make such investigations, he can only inspect a vehicle as it is presented for test at the time.
 
Last edited:
brian47 said:
Regarding "sealed for life" components, well, that's a great "get out" for manufacturers, when a component fails, that's the end of it's life. Greaseable components such as track rod ends and U/Js are often quite easily available, and will last very much longer, provided that, once again they have been properly maintained.

@neilly's buying guide is at https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/handy-buying-alarm-info.311291/
Click to expand...
The problem with grease nipples is that they don't get used. We used to make lower trunnions for morris minors and the machine ran arounf the clock. The thread would sieze up causing the lower wheel to fall off. This didn't happen if the grease nipple was used to grease the thread, but it obviously didn't get done either by owners or garages paid to service the cars.

I remember my first mountain bike had old fashioned ball races in the bottom bracket but water and mud would get in meaning it had to be dismantled and reassembled. It wasn't expensive but when sealed for life cartridges came out this was rarely necessary. The seals were so much better.
 
brianconwy said:
The problem with grease nipples is that they don't get used. We used to make lower trunnions for morris minors and the machine ran arounf the clock. The thread would sieze up causing the lower wheel to fall off. This didn't happen if the grease nipple was used to grease the thread, but it obviously didn't get done either by owners or garages paid to service the cars.
Click to expand...

No need to tell me about the front suspension collapse on the Moggie. I had it happen twice, and I did grease them regulary. The actual problems came about from a number of factors; the thread used was a square profile like an "Acme thread" which meant that there were large amounts of metal in contact inside the trunnion and the tension on the trunnion joint by the upward force on the steering swivel (king pin for want of a better name) and the downward pressure of the torsion bar spring, so that in effect they were permanently trying to pull apart meant that once there was the slightest bit of wear, grease applied through a nipple would never get to the faces of the threads which were mating, no matter how often they were greased. Result? Sudden joint failure and the bottom of the trunnion gouging a groove in the road and the wheel at an odd angle halfway up into the front wing.
 
Ive looked at quite a lot of the mots on my old cars since selling them and the failures for stupid things is unreal, tyres bald/lights inop/screen cracked/wipers split, stuff that literally any idiot can see just by walking around the car.
 
brian47 said:
I'd agree with all the previous contributer's comments, especially @Disco1BFG when he mentioned those who use the MoT as a means of keeping a wreck on the road for another 12 months, we've all seen it. There are some of us who treat a straight pass as a tribute to our efforts of care and attention to our vehicles. As for things which require no prior training, such as lights, tyres, windscreen cracks, wipers and washers, etc. those muppets don't deserve to own a vehicle, such a lack of very basic maintenance could present a risk to the rest of us.

Uneven tyre wear, such as on the inner edges is more usually down to incorrect steering set-up, rather than just wear in steering components, although wear does have adverse effects. I was once told by a "tyre specialist" that the uneven wear I was suffering on a vehicle was because it was fitted with power steering, yeah?! I eventually convinced him to set the toe-in as I wanted and after that I had no more uneven wear problems.

Regarding "sealed for life" components, well, that's a great "get out" for manufacturers, when a component fails, that's the end of it's life. Greaseable components such as track rod ends and U/Js are often quite easily available, and will last very much longer, provided that, once again they have been properly maintained.

@neilly's buying guide is at https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/handy-buying-alarm-info.311291/

Regarding recurring advisories or failures, it's now easy for an owner to check the previous MoT test results and make a judgement based on those results, but a tester is not required to make such investigations, he can only inspect a vehicle as it is presented for test at the time.
Click to expand...


Got so say I was dead suspect of sealed for life prop u/js on the trucks when they came out in 2006 as the pre 2006 u/js would take 20 pumps to get grease to come out of them every 6 weeks, now I often see trucks with a million kms on their original u/js in fact I can think of only one that developed play in the last 2 years out of a fleet of 150.
I used to grease my 90 prop u/js once a month and they still wore, I admit there used to be lots of mud and water involved back then!
 
brian47 said:
No need to tell me about the front suspension collapse on the Moggie. I had it happen twice, and I did grease them regulary. The actual problems came about from a number of factors; the thread used was a square profile like an "Acme thread" which meant that there were large amounts of metal in contact inside the trunnion and the tension on the trunnion joint by the upward force on the steering swivel (king pin for want of a better name) and the downward pressure of the torsion bar spring, so that in effect they were permanently trying to pull apart meant that once there was the slightest bit of wear, grease applied through a nipple would never get to the faces of the threads which were mating, no matter how often they were greased. Result? Sudden joint failure and the bottom of the trunnion gouging a groove in the road and the wheel at an odd angle halfway up into the front wing.
Click to expand...

I remember it happening to someone coming into work on a speedhump. They say it only occurred at low speeds. I don't know how true that is. The marina had a similar set-up but didn't suffer from the same problem of the wheel coming away although I did have to replace them on my marina. The marina ones had a slot milled down the thread which let the grease get around better.
 
brianconwy said:
I remember it happening to someone coming into work on a speedhump. They say it only occurred at low speeds. I don't know how true that is. The marina had a similar set-up but didn't suffer from the same problem of the wheel coming away although I did have to replace them on my marina. The marina ones had a slot milled down the thread which let the grease get around better.
Click to expand...

Well, it only happened to me at low speeds too, the first time was just as I'd gone over a particularly awkward bridge with a right hand bend after it. It was a bus route too, blocked it for quite a while.
The second time the opposite side went, just at the bottom of the hill entering Ashtead from Epsom, I'd slowed down to turn right at the bottom of the hill. I'd just come up from S.Wales that day so it went at the right spot for me.
Yes, the problem was getting the grease around the joint properly.
 
Werent you meant to lube them with oil in a gun and if you used grease thats why they died?
 
brianconwy said:
They are wearable items but they are built a lot better now. It wasn't unusual for them to get replaced within five years in the past but they can last the lifetime of the vehicle now.
Click to expand...

My Old girls Renault Y Reg scenic has had to have the NSF ball joint replaced nearly every 18 months since we've owned it, we've tried all brands of part including genuine but all have lasted the same time befor starting to knock

brian47 said:
I was once told by a "tyre specialist" that the uneven wear I was suffering on a vehicle was because it was fitted with power steering, yeah?! I eventually convinced him to set the toe-in as I wanted and after that I had no more uneven wear problems.
Click to expand...
I got told my tracking was 2 degrees out by a fitter once before he'd even put the gauges on!

Its annoying when you look at the MOT history and see the same old advisories every MOT on the same car for 5 years or more and the add will say " no expense spared / £000 spent etc etc ..."

when i got my disco they were the first things i sorted can't stand advisories

@QRHcooper My advise is get the best one you can afford with the best rear chassis and if possible no rusty brake lines, get underneath with a small hammer and screwdriver and poke around mine had rusted through slightly near the rear springs along the seam that runs at the bottom of the chassis rail, only size of a 10pence piece but was covered with a flake of rust so looked like it was solid,
other thing after that can be sorted so something like new track rod ends and tracking can be sorted for £100 so its not a bank breaker if you do get one with some smaller advisories
 
They are wearable items but they are built a lot better now. It wasn't unusual for them to get replaced within five years in the past but they can last the lifetime of the vehicle now.
My Old girls Renault Y Reg scenic has had to have the NSF ball joint replaced nearly every 18 months since we've owned it, we've tried all brands of part including genuine but all have lasted the same time befor starting to knock

That might some issue with the car as I had a clio that did 108,000 miles without needing a ball joint change but it did go through a few front coil springs. Whereas years ago ball joints were machined with form drills on rotary transfer machines in vast quantities, these days they are machined on CNC lathes with greater precision but in fewer numbers.
 
Hello guys! Brilliant replies all, thanks for all the feed back!

Armed with as much research I could could muster in a three week study period I have just descended upon a dealership nearby who were advertising a 1999 Green Disco 2 S.

After working my way through the comprehensive pre-purchase check list ect I am now the rather proud owner of a lovely Disco 2

IMG_6146.JPG IMG_6148.JPG
A few areas of TLC needed but overall I'm very happy with her Now to personalise
 
yu say repeat MOT advisories show poor maintenance.... I consistently get "minor corrosion on exhaust system\"..... since when has an exhaust system not been rusty :(.
 
A tester told me a few years ago he always adds an advisory or two when testing an older vehicle as otherwise it flags interest from inspectors.

He told me this by way of apology for writing up 'very slightly frayed o/s seat belt' and not to worry about it considering it was 40 years old and would be fine again next year.
 
blue beasty said:
A tester told me a few years ago he always adds an advisory or two when testing an older vehicle as otherwise it flags interest from inspectors.

He told me this by way of apology for writing up 'very slightly frayed o/s seat belt' and not to worry about it considering it was 40 years old and would be fine again next year.
Click to expand...

ive wored with all sortes or testers of the the years one lad whio'd just got his licence wass extremely anal about things so would fail for slightly loose wheel trim etc etc

worst one was a Asian chap who would pass some write rot boxes for black and asian lads but fail white ppl's cars for anything he could including staff cars!
 
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