P38 starting problems please help I'm lost !

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Hebby73

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Hi everyone, let me start at the beginning. After driving the car 2.5 diesel rr to the mothering laws, we locked the car with the key rather than the remote, walked away from the car, the car then locked again,we thought this was odd, but it was still locked so we walked away. left the car for 3 hours parked up at the side of the road,we returned to the car, unlocked the door reached over to pop up drivers door button let the wife in, car engine turned over, but would not start.no faults on dash. Engine turns over same speed as it always did, quite fast just wouldn't fire.so my thoughts were lack of fuel, although fuel light was on I was still on the 2nd mark, fuel light had only just come on. So after trying a few times, battery went flat, called the AA they came out, no idea what was wrong, recovered me home. Since I've got back I've recharged the battery,disconnected the fuel pipe after the fuel filter ( changed filter last year ) fuel coming through but wasn't that impressed with the pressure,anyone know what pressure it should be from the pump ???
There's fuel to the solenoid on the injector pump and power at the solenoid as it opens and closes, but yet there's no fuel at the injectors ? I've cracked an injector open and cranked the engine over, sprayed easy start into engine and she Still won't start ?

So do I now have a immobiliser problem ? I've got no messages on the dash apart from window/sunroof stuff but no engine/ immobiliser issues. Snap-on code reader says code 27 anti theft device. Where do I start to look ?
Once I know where to look it's not so bad. I'm
New to range rovers but I need my car to earn a living, so it's costing me more than just repairs.

One or two other issues, after I bought the car the central locking stopped working. I had to open the car with the key and reach across to let passenger in. Rear doors still work off the central locking and also the indicators would stay on for long perriods of time, not flashing just stay permanently on. Once the car was unlocked this would resolve it's self. I never got any dash warnings or starting problems.

The red dash immobiliser light is not coming on, the one on top of the dash in the Center so do I have a immobiliser issue ? I've tried the lock out code with the key but when I'm inputting the code the indicators only flash a few times, should they flash with every code imput ?

I'm Based near Whitby north Yorkshire any advice or help would be most welcome. Thanks hebby73
 
From the sound of it the BECM has lost the Engine ECU security code.IE the security link between the BECM and ECM has lost sync.You will an appropiate diagnostic tool,such as Testbook or BBS syncmate, to resync the Becm.
 
Hebby73 said:
Hi everyone, let me start at the beginning. After driving the car 2.5 diesel rr to the mothering laws, we locked the car with the key rather than the remote, walked away from the car, the car then locked again,we thought this was odd, but it was still locked so we walked away. left the car for 3 hours parked up at the side of the road,we returned to the car, unlocked the door reached over to pop up drivers door button let the wife in, car engine turned over, but would not start.no faults on dash. Engine turns over same speed as it always did, quite fast just wouldn't fire.so my thoughts were lack of fuel, although fuel light was on I was still on the 2nd mark, fuel light had only just come on. So after trying a few times, battery went flat, called the AA they came out, no idea what was wrong, recovered me home. Since I've got back I've recharged the battery,disconnected the fuel pipe after the fuel filter ( changed filter last year ) fuel coming through but wasn't that impressed with the pressure,anyone know what pressure it should be from the pump ???
There's fuel to the solenoid on the injector pump and power at the solenoid as it opens and closes, but yet there's no fuel at the injectors ? I've cracked an injector open and cranked the engine over, sprayed easy start into engine and she Still won't start ?

So do I now have a immobiliser problem ? I've got no messages on the dash apart from window/sunroof stuff but no engine/ immobiliser issues. Snap-on code reader says code 27 anti theft device. Where do I start to look ?
Once I know where to look it's not so bad. I'm
New to range rovers but I need my car to earn a living, so it's costing me more than just repairs.

One or two other issues, after I bought the car the central locking stopped working. I had to open the car with the key and reach across to let passenger in. Rear doors still work off the central locking and also the indicators would stay on for long perriods of time, not flashing just stay permanently on. Once the car was unlocked this would resolve it's self. I never got any dash warnings or starting problems.

The red dash immobiliser light is not coming on, the one on top of the dash in the Center so do I have a immobiliser issue ? I've tried the lock out code with the key but when I'm inputting the code the indicators only flash a few times, should they flash with every code imput ?

I'm Based near Whitby north Yorkshire any advice or help would be most welcome. Thanks hebby73
Click to expand...

When you turn the ignition to position 2 do you get the wee picture of an engine come up beside the glow plug symbol and does the engine symbol go out after a few seconds but before you start the engine?

If this doesn't happen then you have indeed lost the communication between the BECM and the engine ECM. This can be restored by using one of the full fat fault code sorters as mentioned above or you could by a SYNCHMATE from BlackBox Solutions that will do this job and this alone.

With the other issues that you've mentioned I'd suggest that, this time, you bite the bullet and get an expert out. That way you'll not only get your car running but you could also get all the fault codes read, recorded and cleared. Then if you have further problems you know that you'll be dealing with fresh codes. You really want a Rangie expert for this, not just any-one with any fault reader.
 
Hebby73 said:
Hi everyone, let me start at the beginning. After driving the car 2.5 diesel rr to the mothering laws, we locked the car with the key rather than the remote, walked away from the car, the car then locked again,we thought this was odd, but it was still locked so we walked away. left the car for 3 hours parked up at the side of the road,we returned to the car, unlocked the door reached over to pop up drivers door button let the wife in, car engine turned over, but would not start.no faults on dash. Engine turns over same speed as it always did, quite fast just wouldn't fire.so my thoughts were lack of fuel, although fuel light was on I was still on the 2nd mark, fuel light had only just come on. So after trying a few times, battery went flat, called the AA they came out, no idea what was wrong, recovered me home. Since I've got back I've recharged the battery,disconnected the fuel pipe after the fuel filter ( changed filter last year ) fuel coming through but wasn't that impressed with the pressure,anyone know what pressure it should be from the pump ???
There's fuel to the solenoid on the injector pump and power at the solenoid as it opens and closes, but yet there's no fuel at the injectors ? I've cracked an injector open and cranked the engine over, sprayed easy start into engine and she Still won't start ?

So do I now have a immobiliser problem ? I've got no messages on the dash apart from window/sunroof stuff but no engine/ immobiliser issues. Snap-on code reader says code 27 anti theft device. Where do I start to look ?
Once I know where to look it's not so bad. I'm
New to range rovers but I need my car to earn a living, so it's costing me more than just repairs.

One or two other issues, after I bought the car the central locking stopped working. I had to open the car with the key and reach across to let passenger in. Rear doors still work off the central locking and also the indicators would stay on for long perriods of time, not flashing just stay permanently on. Once the car was unlocked this would resolve it's self. I never got any dash warnings or starting problems.

The red dash immobiliser light is not coming on, the one on top of the dash in the Center so do I have a immobiliser issue ? I've tried the lock out code with the key but when I'm inputting the code the indicators only flash a few times, should they flash with every code imput ?

I'm Based near Whitby north Yorkshire any advice or help would be most welcome. Thanks hebby73
Click to expand...


Does the comment in red mean that the drivers door was not unlocking by normal means? If so I would guess one of your problems is the drivers door lock.
 
Yes, only the rear doors work with the key fob, to get into the car I have to use the key it's self in the lock. I open the drivers door and reach across to the passenger door to let anyone else in the front. It doesn't bother me to much it would be nice if it did work, but it's not the end of the world.
I get the impression that because the drivers door lock doesn't work off the remote fob, then this is where my problems stem from ? Is this what has triggered a immobiliser issue? What do I need to fix it? Is it a complete door lock, handle or something else ?
It's ok getting the fault codes removed but I will still
Need to find out what's making it unhappy


Also what does the big black box on the drivers door do, outside something or other printed on the sticker.
Thanks guys. Hebby
 
Hebby73 said:
Yes, only the rear doors work with the key fob, to get into the car I have to use the key it's self in the lock. I open the drivers door and reach across to the passenger door to let anyone else in the front. It doesn't bother me to much it would be nice if it did work, but it's not the end of the world.
I get the impression that because the drivers door lock doesn't work off the remote fob, then this is where my problems stem from ? Is this what has triggered a immobiliser issue? What do I need to fix it? Is it a complete door lock, handle or something else ?
It's ok getting the fault codes removed but I will still
Need to find out what's making it unhappy


Also what does the big black box on the drivers door do, outside something or other printed on the sticker.
Thanks guys. Hebby
Click to expand...

Fix the drivers door lock, if the motor is burnt suspect the RF receiver.
Big black box?:confused:
 
If you 'Superlocked' with the key (turned it twice to the lock position) you can't remobilise the vehicle using the key in the door lock...you have to use the EKA code...

The 'Locking Twice' is the sound of the superlock dead bolts moving into place...
 

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Congratulations on taking a very systematic approach and for giving a detailled description. First port of call is the microswitch in the driver's door lock. There are several threads about it if you do a search in here and also on Range Rovers.

The various window and sunroof warnings are due to you to you possibly disconnecting the battery to recharge it. Simple enough to reset them, I wrote out the procedure again for the nth time just recently so do a search of my posts if you like. Why do you suppose your battery went flat after just a few tries at starting? I would have the battery properly checked it may be developing a bad cell. If not then your alternator is implicated, it may not be charging the battery sufficiently. Do you only drive short distances? At this time of year with lights, wipers, heater fans and so forth there's a lot of strain on the battery and you'll want your electrics to be in tip top form.

Dogsbody mentioned to look for the check engine light when you turn the key to position two. If the light comes on at all, your BECM and ECM are talking so you do not have an immobilizer issue. In theory. This is certainly true for my GEMS V8 but there was recently some debate that it isn't true on cars with the later Bosch Motoronic ECU so I have no idea if it is valid for a diesel. On the otherhand SaintV8 mentioned the EKA code. Did you try it?
 
Hi everyone, first off can I say a big thank you for everyone's help. So far....
After taking my p38 to stratstones land rover dealers in Pickering north Yorkshire, I had the codes read, the results were.

Engine immobilisation/alarm system on engine. :- 027
fault code stored when ECM fails to mobilise when ignition switched on.
This could be due to wire fault between ECM and spider unit, fault in spider unit or fault in ECM

The fallowing info may be required when consulting rover service.
Ambient value 1 when the fault occurred ( rpm ) 000
Ambient value 2 when the fault occurred ( coolant temp ) 179
Sensor reading is too high - wire or sensor fault.
Sensor reading is too low - wire or sensor fault.
Fault is current.
Fault is intermittent.

I've copied what I was given on the landrover diagnostic system print out that the mechanic gave me. His thoughts were bemc fault and would need sending away to be repaired.
However my concern was why did it say wire fault or sensor.
If this is the case would I have to go throughout all the wires going into the becm unit?
What sensors will I have to test.
I'm no auto electrician so the power going into the becm unit will it all be 12v or will these be different? Will there or should there be power to all the wires ?
How on earth am I ment to work out what's working and what's not ?

So after trying to start the car the codes just kept coming back on the same thing everytime. So I'm not out of the woods just yet, I can't even see the green lanes from hear !!!
Any thoughts ???
 
Looking on the Map your 134 miles from me, I could come to you to read all your Becm setting and faults, clear, then re read again, but i beleve your main fault is a sync problem. the rest of the faults can be traced one by one then put right at a later date.

Let me know if you want me to help. :)
 
Hebby73 said:
After taking my p38 to stratstones land rover dealers in Pickering north Yorkshire, His thoughts were bemc fault and would need sending away to be repaired.
I'm no auto electrician so the power going into the becm unit will it all be 12v or will these be different? Will there or should there be power to all the wires ?
How on earth am I ment to work out what's working and what's not ?
Any thoughts ???
Click to expand...

First thought - beware main dealer mechanics who blame the BECM for almost any faults. It's a nice, customer confusing, big ticket item that makes it look like he knows what he's doing and helps to bump their bill up.

You'd be much safer talking to the likes of DOUGDOTCOM who will have far more knowledge of a P38 and is only respected on here because of an excellent reputation.

If you want to understand the BECM then get onto RangeRovers.net where you will find about the nearest thing to an idiot's guide.

Otherwise just keep asking the questions on here, there are a few P38 owners with high-end fault finding kit who can be incredibly helpful.

:D
 
Hi,Dougdotcom how much would it cost to repair £ do you have an hourly fee ? Is there a call out charge? Thanks again everyone
 
Hebby73 said:
Hi everyone, first off can I say a big thank you for everyone's help. So far....
After taking my p38 to stratstones land rover dealers in Pickering north Yorkshire, I had the codes read, the results were.

Engine immobilisation/alarm system on engine. :- 027
fault code stored when ECM fails to mobilise when ignition switched on.
This could be due to wire fault between ECM and spider unit, fault in spider unit or fault in ECM

The fallowing info may be required when consulting rover service.
Ambient value 1 when the fault occurred ( rpm ) 000
Ambient value 2 when the fault occurred ( coolant temp ) 179
Sensor reading is too high - wire or sensor fault.
Sensor reading is too low - wire or sensor fault.
Fault is current.
Fault is intermittent.

I've copied what I was given on the landrover diagnostic system print out that the mechanic gave me. His thoughts were bemc fault and would need sending away to be repaired.
However my concern was why did it say wire fault or sensor.
If this is the case would I have to go throughout all the wires going into the becm unit?
What sensors will I have to test.
I'm no auto electrician so the power going into the becm unit will it all be 12v or will these be different? Will there or should there be power to all the wires ?
How on earth am I ment to work out what's working and what's not ?

So after trying to start the car the codes just kept coming back on the same thing everytime. So I'm not out of the woods just yet, I can't even see the green lanes from hear !!!
Any thoughts ???
Click to expand...

Ambient value 1 & 2 often/always come up when the car is started, at least they do on mine.
Which sensors is it refering to?
I would bet there is nothing wrong with the BECM other than a loss of sync as others have said. Most dealers haven't a clue so they blame the BECM for everything.
More likely to be the fuse box if it's not a loss of sync problem.
 
So if it is the fuse box what would be wrong with it ? Water contamination ? Corroded terminals ? like I said before I'm not very good with electrical fault finding. It's still guess work, if I had some Definative answers then yeah no problem to take something out and replace it. I've never classesd my self as a mechanic, more like a fitter. I'm crap at diagnostics. I was hoping the test book would be more definitive with ogled answers I suppose they are with other problems, I guess with thus problem it's sounding more like a bit of a Gray area. I dont want to takethe becm out, send it off to someone get it back and be none the wiser, and it still won't start. Is there a way to test the fuse box ?.
Thanks again hebby73
 
Hebby73 said:
So if it is the fuse box what would be wrong with it ? Water contamination ? Corroded terminals ? like I said before I'm not very good with electrical fault finding. It's still guess work, if I had some Definative answers then yeah no problem to take something out and replace it. I've never classesd my self as a mechanic, more like a fitter. I'm crap at diagnostics. I was hoping the test book would be more definitive with ogled answers I suppose they are with other problems, I guess with thus problem it's sounding more like a bit of a Gray area. I dont want to takethe becm out, send it off to someone get it back and be none the wiser, and it still won't start. Is there a way to test the fuse box ?.
Thanks again hebby73
Click to expand...

Take out and take it apart, look for signs of burning or corrosion. But before you do that try a re-sync as that's the usual reason for non starting.
 
So the fuse box looked ok, nothing blatantly obvious there. Been and bought NSF / OSF door locks as these had stopped working anyway and I've read a few posts about people having trubble with immobilisers because of the micro switches, could this be a problem with the" spider unit " what does this spider unit look like ?
If this doesn't resolve the immobiliser issue, then it was the cheaper of the issues at £40.00 each. Can anyone please tell me what the out staion box on the drivers door do ? Thanks hebby73
 
Hebby73 said:
So the fuse box looked ok, nothing blatantly obvious there. Been and bought NSF / OSF door locks as these had stopped working anyway and I've read a few posts about people having trubble with immobilisers because of the micro switches, could this be a problem with the" spider unit " what does this spider unit look like ?
If this doesn't resolve the immobiliser issue, then it was the cheaper of the issues at £40.00 each. Can anyone please tell me what the out staion box on the drivers door do ? Thanks hebby73
Click to expand...

If the actual door locks have failed, then it's likely they were cooked by a faulty RF receiver continually operating them.
 
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