New P38 owner with troubles....

Hi all,

First time poster. Suspect I'll be spending a LOT of time on here from now!

I recently (3 weeks ago) bought myself my first Range, a 95 4.6 HSE P38. 143k miles. I love it. However, I'm not sure why! It clearly has 'issues' which I'll list below for any advice anyone can offer, but as of yesterday I've started something I hope I can finish.....

1. Overheating.
Ran perfect (2 trips Manchester to Glasgow) until Friday night there when it overheated. RAC man added 7 litres (about) of water and followed me home, and she was fine. He sniffed the water, and could see the rock hard hoses, and suggests the head gasket is away.

2. Heater
Only ever blows slightly warm on driver side. Cold passenger. Book symbol on HEVAC. Guessing blend motors might be gone after reading forum.

4. Oil
I have done around 700 miles since I got her and she dropped from full to minimum on dipstick. Not sure if this is normal, maybe is. Note no blue smoke, smell of oil or signs of leaks

5. Door handle - key does not work and called previous owner as I found another handle in boot (broken). So when I had battery off (change buln in dash) had to temp fit old handle to use the key code method. Called dealer and can get a new handle for £36 which I will do soon.

6. Dash has several warning messages on running. ABS fault, airbag fault, sometimes Traction control fault too. Sunroof not set also.

7. Yesterday, after I did compression test I put all plugs back and started her up to see if she continued to overheat. Ran for 30 mins no problems, (no white smoke once warmed up) and was about to make the decision to run her as is and check water level daily when...suddenly she started making a loud clonking sound from top end of engine. Almost sounds like something hitting top of rocker cover, hard. So I stopped immediately,

So what next?
Well, call me daft, but last week when all was well I ordered a Faultmate FCR from Blackbox. Not cheap but I figured I would need it to clear these codes and suss out the HEVAC properly before going buying parts. The previous owner told me these codes were a result of dead battery. As I want to keep the car for a while, I think this will be worth it. So its on its way anyway.

BUT....

So yesterday I did a cyclinder compression test and 6 gave almost exactly 150PSI, but cyclinder 1 was 130, and cylinder 3 was 160. Not sure if this says much really? Poss leak/bad valve on cylinder 1? Are these good numbers?

Now with this damn knocking noise I figured something has broken. A valve/tappet/pushrod or even worse. So, after a quick scour of the web, a copy of rave, I have started stripping it down to remove the heads and see whats going on. Ive done this before years and years ago on a small 4 cyclinder car, so just hope this is not a nightmare. Expecting the usual hard bolts to crack.....I prefer to have a go than pay a fortune to someone who doesn't really care about 'my' car, if that makes sense....

Anyway thats me. If anyone has similar woes or advice, love to hear it. If anyone is around Hamilton/Glasgow it would be good to know too.

Cheers

Paul

Sounds like the engine got properly cooked if the AA man had to put in 7 litres of water.
If you're lucky it'll be gaskets, more likely to be a cracked block which 4.0/4.6 engines in particular are prone to.
The tapping noise could well be a bent pushrod/lazy hydraulic tappet or the worst case scenario of a slipped cylinder liner.
Is it still on the original engine and if so then its probable that its time for a new one.

BoomerV8 said:

Is it still on the original engine and if so then its probable that its time for a new one.

Click to expand...

i believe the new engine every 100k is on the service schedule!!:hysterically_laughi

thanks

i was just gooling and found this video - this is the sound I have!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg2TlJDLKXk&feature=related]Slipped cylinder liner? - YouTube[/ame]

so it looks like a slipped liner indeed. bugger

you think im wasting my time striping down? whats the cheapest route, just get a new complete engine or attempt to strip and fix?

or...is the car a write off?!

cheet22 said:

thanks

i was just gooling and found this video - this is the sound I have!

Slipped cylinder liner? - YouTube

so it looks like a slipped liner indeed. bugger

you think im wasting my time striping down? whats the cheapest route, just get a new complete engine or attempt to strip and fix?

or...is the car a write off?!

Click to expand...

Replacement of engine is only real option.
Shop around, see what you can get?
What is the car worth to you, does it justify repair or scrap it?
Can you get your money back by breaking it?

Thx

One question, i just started her up again and that loud clonking is there immediately - could this possibly mean it is not a liner as i read somewhere that a slipped liner only makes noise when warm?

As you sound like you don't mind using the tools I would at least strip the heads down.

And when your faultmate arrives don't lock it to your vin unless you intend keeping the motor.
Because I'm sure someone on here would take it off your hands if you got rid of the motor. But once locked to a specific vin its worth a lot less.(I think) Good luck.

Thx
Ok i am going to strip it down and see what i find

2mins in - taken plenum cover off and one of the trumpets is not seated at all, literally plonked against others

Do these fellas just push in?

Possible this is my mysterious new clonking? Just before i started stripping i ran it and it did feel like something at the top of the engine/plenum

Will keep going anyway - im taking photos all the way too

The Faultmate software can be transfered for 20 euro's to a new keeper ive read.
Looking forward to your photos and text regarding the problem you have.

Ok, had a few hours today in between the wifes desire to drag me to b n q for paint.

Anyway, got all gubbins off, inlet manifold is off and npone rocker. The rocker covers are a right pain as none of my sockets will fit into the cover recesses properly, so they taking longer than everything else!

Anyway, got one off and.....a rocker is lying on its side, the end one near bulkhead (cylinder 7). Seems the rocker bar has simply sheared off with this rocker. Pushrod looks ok on firs inspection.

So that might have been the clonking! that combined with the loose ram (trumpet)

Not sure if this breaking is a sign of something else, ie what causes it or what other damage it ma have done, so will just keep going and see what i find next.

Is gone dark so had to stop, i have no garage yet so it will poss be next weekend before i make much more progress. I have took photos all along and so will see ifmi can stick the process and pics on a web page somewhere then share for those interested.

Thanks all,

It is my humble opinion for what it's worth, that a snapped rocker arm is almost certainly the cause of you knocking.

As for loosing water have you checked the drivers floor for leaking heater O rings?

Yeah, deffo no wetness in car.

I now have both rockers, inlet manifold and valley gasket off. One side is dark brown/red/black and the other shiny silver rockers....sounds like water been cleaing one side?

I'm sticking my steps and photos to a web page will share soon.

cheet22 said:

Yeah, deffo no wetness in car.

I now have both rockers, inlet manifold and valley gasket off. One side is dark brown/red/black and the other shiny silver rockers....sounds like water been cleaing one side?

I'm sticking my steps and photos to a web page will share soon.

Click to expand...

Only thing water will clean is combustion spaces/plugs/inside exhaust manifolds. Unless i am reading it wrong. It certainly won't clean rockers. Get the photos on ASAP.

Ok, worried now!

Maybe someone replaced them? No obvious signs of someone being here before, but one rocker bolt was not exactly tight.

Pics here (forgive the crap site as yet)

https://sites.google.com/site/paulsroverv8/engine-main-problem-pictures

Hi,

Has anyone seen rocker gear looking so different on each side? Can this definitely not be coolant from a bad head gasket?

I'm just about to get back to it and get the heads off.

I'd be tempted to replace the rocker shafts and rockers while I'm in there. If worn it's usually a sign that the engine has been run with (or has) a worn camshaft, the swarf from the damaged followers usually finds its way into the bearing surfaces of the rockers wearing them and the shafts. If that's the case, time to replace the big-ends too!

Replacing camshaft and all rocker gear a given - seeing as one rocker shaft snapped

Im just curious to know why the two rocker gears look so different in colour - one side does seem "washed" clean - hence the question really - can coolant get into rocker area with a bad head gasket?

I would guess water couldn't get into the rocker space from a blown HG....the HG (as you are more than aware) is the seal between the bottom of the Valve Head block and the top of the Cylinder Block....for the water to get into the rocker space, water would need to be forced up past the valves and valve stems, it could enter the oil ways and into the rocker space, but this is highly unlikley as it would be going against the flow of oil..!!!

Also Water alone wont polish clean anything with gungy oil on as water and oil don't mix so the grime won't be 'diluted' by the water....usually only a solvent or similar (like petrol) would clean it to a certain degree.

Looks to me as someone has had this off, cleaned it and put it back....

Maybe one side HG went and they only changed one side and not the other...!!!

Perhaps it's had a new set of rockers on that side and they are cheap Chinese crap hence the failure? Or a new (to it) head with the said cheap Chinese rockers already fitted?