My old p38 up for grabs again...

Question...
My old p38, which I did love a little, but which had a knacked engine is up for sale again.
Not only has it been fitted with a new engine, but it's the same price as I sold it for!!
Just needs ancilliaries hooked back up and mot'd.
I do have a perfectly good 110 which I'd probably would need to sell...
A tricky decision... Comfort, refinement, unreliability versus brutal ride and handling but bullet proof engine!

You want to buy ANOTHER P38?

Wow.

I love my Range Rover(s) and am a dyed-in-the-wool RR fanatic....but if the 110 is solid, stick with it and sit on a cushion!

It is solid. And slow, cold, heavy, but also brilliant.
I even have a 200tdi (complete rolling chassis) waiting to go in it, but there's something about the p38.
I think I'm talking myself into both..
Surely the wife won't mind?!

Whenever I have had to sell a P38...the hankering for another just eats at you....so I know that feeling....

Atleast you will be aware of the pitfuls of RR ownership....

Toughy - I would have a RR anyday...but if I had a reliable, solid and dependable ride already....maybe I would buy a Hat, Gloves, Scarf and a Cushion first......

Maybe a RR just seems more of an option cos it is cold, wet and horrid out there....wait for the warmer, better weather....if you then still want one when your 110 is warm and cosy....maybe that is your answer!

Think I have to go see it tomorrow at least.. I'll try to convince myself it's too much work.

Saint.V8 said:

...but if I had a reliable, solid and dependable ride already....

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What if you had those things and a Range Rover? Mine has been all of those things. Your RR is a piece of poo that keeps on going wrong, so I can understand why you might consider a Defender reliable. Next time you should buy a good RR.

Although I suppose you've got the chance to learn how to be a LR specialist mechanic by buying bad ones.

The wife won't mind don't tell her say the bloke you sold it to has had a nervous breakdown and wants to pay you back and you got it free

Bix said:

What if you had those things and a Range Rover? Mine has been all of those things. Your RR is a piece of poo that keeps on going wrong, so I can understand why you might consider a Defender reliable. Next time you should buy a good RR.

Although I suppose you've got the chance to learn how to be a LR specialist mechanic by buying bad ones.

Click to expand...

Harsh.....

My Range Rover is fine...my previous Range Rovers have been fine...I need a hobby to stop me eating all the Jaffa cakes anyway...!!

You have been lucky, as have many others...but the statistic speak for themselves...the RR is notoriously unreliable...it is part of Rangie ownership.....

I consider myself the Guinea Pig for the L322 fraternity.....I am lucky enough to have the ability to do a majority of the repairs myself...and I will document and help others who have similar issues....as I have done...so other unfortunate owners need not be scared or anxious of faults as they develope.

The P38 was similarly lambasted when it first came out in comparison of the Classics simiplicity.....the L322 is just the same.

If it wasn't for owners like me who are willing to put up with a few niggles and document the repairs, Range Rovers of all types would be beyond the Home DIY'er as there would be no information out there on how to fix/maintain/repair things.....

An in anycase, my issues are not that great....

A Rad
A Fuel Pump
A Thermostat
A few electrical hiccups that all was needed was a reset

The Gearbox issue affects all L322's not just mine or a handful of others....

Maybe I should stop posting/documenting my 'journey' with the L322 as all it does it either degenerate into a L322 vs P38 debate or I am derided for having one that I just happen to post about....

A gift, just for you.

I agree that the world needs Guinea Pig, those Guinea Pigs in this situation should've been the LR techs who did their job properly (that is why the L405 test vehicles have covered around 500,000 each).

As vehicles become more computerised you'll get more and more people who say "god, cars were so much easier back in the day", then go off into some trip down memory lane when they remember how they once fixed a car with a pair of socks and some gaffa tape. But will forget to mention that vehicles back in the day were the least reliable vehicles ever have been, most only had two moving parts but still wouldn't strike in the winter.

My only reason for not liking the L322 was the Chuckie, the facelift addresses that for me, but currently outside of "be a grown up idiot" price range. Can't justify one using Man MathsTM either.

Yes cars are getting more complex, but 20-30 years ago you wouldn't have got a vehicle the size of the L322, with all of it's comfort and trickery while still getting 30MPG (derv). The only reason 100k is deemed high mileage in the UK is because through most of the 20th century you'd be luck to get a vehicle reach 100k without catastrophic failure.

Bix said:

A gift, just for you.

I agree that the world needs Guinea Pig, those Guinea Pigs in this situation should've been the LR techs who did their job properly (that is why the L405 test vehicles have covered around 500,000 each).

As vehicles become more computerised you'll get more and more people who say "god, cars were so much easier back in the day", then go off into some trip down memory lane when they remember how they once fixed a car with a pair of socks and some gaffa tape. But will forget to mention that vehicles back in the day were the least reliable vehicles ever have been, most only had two moving parts but still wouldn't strike in the winter.

My only reason for not liking the L322 was the Chuckie, the facelift addresses that for me, but currently outside of "be a grown up idiot" price range. Can't justify one using Man MathsTM either.

Yes cars are getting more complex, but 20-30 years ago you wouldn't have got a vehicle the size of the L322, with all of it's comfort and trickery while still getting 30MPG (derv). The only reason 100k is deemed high mileage in the UK is because through most of the 20th century you'd be luck to get a vehicle reach 100k without catastrophic failure.

Click to expand...

Sorry, that's total bollocks, my old Comma Cob back in the 60's had covered more than 100K when I sold it with no failures apart from a clutch thrust race. I've had several Volvo's that had mileages in the range of 200 to 300K miles on them with no significant failures. In my business I've had several Ford products that have covered huge mileages without problems, my current Transit has 160K and has had little apart from consumables from a hard life including a DMF.
People seem to think that 10 years is old for a Range Rover, it shouldn't be, nor should 100K miles, the fact is they are poorly made.

Datatek said:

Sorry, that's total bollocks, my old Comma Cob back in the 60's had covered more than 100K when I sold it with no failures apart from a clutch thrust race. I've had several Volvo's that had mileages in the range of 200 to 300K miles on them with no significant failures. In my business I've had several Ford products that have covered huge mileages without problems, my current Transit has 160K and has had little apart from consumables from a hard life including a DMF.
People seem to think that 10 years is old for a Range Rover, it shouldn't be, nor should 100K miles, the fact is they are poorly made.

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Your van is late 20th century. I was implying earlier than that. Too many people when looking for cars will disregard anything over 70k as "high miles" I was watching a programme about buying second hand cars a while back, they had a 3 series floating around 86k and say "don't worry about the high miles, the engine should be good for at least another 20k before something goes wrong". :emps1:

This all stems from the high tolerances engines were built with many decades ago, back before I was born. The UK had a massive car industry at one point, but it failed because nothing was made properly. BL/JLR carried on that tradition (I can't judge if they've moved on just yet, will require another decade at least). But most other marquees actually got their act together and started making good quality vehicles.

Still makes me laugh when I go to Canada and vehicles have 250k km (I forget the conversion, I think it is 160k miles) on the clock and regarded as low miles.

Bix said:

Your van is late 20th century. I was implying earlier than that. Too many people when looking for cars will disregard anything over 70k as "high miles" I was watching a programme about buying second hand cars a while back, they had a 3 series floating around 86k and say "don't worry about the high miles, the engine should be good for at least another 20k before something goes wrong". :emps1:

This all stems from the high tolerances engines were built with many decades ago, back before I was born. The UK had a massive car industry at one point, but it failed because nothing was made properly. BL/JLR carried on that tradition (I can't judge if they've moved on just yet, will require another decade at least). But most other marquees actually got their act together and started making good quality vehicles.

Still makes me laugh when I go to Canada and vehicles have 250k km (I forget the conversion, I think it is 160k miles) on the clock and regarded as low miles.

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You reckon a 1960 Comma Cob is late 20th century?

No, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

[edit: When I said your van I meant your Transit. I thought it was 1996, but just checked your sig and it is 2003.]

My cortina mk4 engine failed at 80,000 miles, capri around the same. In more recent years I had a couple of rover 420 diesels that covered 260,000 miles and 329,000 miles without a problem. I would say more modern cars last longer as a general rule even though there are bound to be exceptions.

Saint.V8 said:

I consider myself the Guinea Pig for the L322 fraternity.....I am lucky enough to have the ability to do a majority of the repairs myself...and I will document and help others who have similar issues....as I have done...so other unfortunate owners need not be scared or anxious of faults as they develope.

The P38 was similarly lambasted when it first came out in comparison of the Classics simiplicity.....the L322 is just the same.

If it wasn't for owners like me who are willing to put up with a few niggles and document the repairs, Range Rovers of all types would be beyond the Home DIY'er as there would be no information out there on how to fix/maintain/repair things.....

Click to expand...

Bix said:

Yes cars are getting more complex, but 20-30 years ago you wouldn't have got a vehicle the size of the L322, with all of it's comfort and trickery while still getting 30MPG (derv). The only reason 100k is deemed high mileage in the UK is because through most of the 20th century you'd be luck to get a vehicle reach 100k without catastrophic failure.

Click to expand...

I agree with both of you....(harp playing in the back ground)

I can remember the press launch of Range Rover Classic with vinyl seats and rubber matts, I even knew someone who owned one of the first ones

When I was a working lad 42+ years ago, you could break down and get it going again with a bit of string, a fag packet, a pair of pliers and a screwdriver.

Ford car engines use to wear out and need a total build around 60,000/70,000 miles and BMC engines needed rebuilding around 40,000/50,000 miles.

Every day jobs were head gaskets, clutches and brakes.

The original "Smith's" heater in a series 1, series 2 was an optional extra (it was only for the passengers feet anyway) and it didn't matter the roof leaked because the gaps in the floor allowed the water out faster than it could come in the top (even from new, no change there then on a defender).

Those were the days......

Vehicles today are just mobile computers, its a pity that computers don't like dampness/water and you can't use a lump hammmer on them.

Sometimes I wish I could afford a nice cart sprung series...

Datatek said:

Sorry, that's total bollocks, my old Comma Cob back in the 60's had covered more than 100K when I sold it with no failures apart from a clutch thrust race. I've had several Volvo's that had mileages in the range of 200 to 300K miles on them with no significant failures. In my business I've had several Ford products that have covered huge mileages without problems, my current Transit has 160K and has had little apart from consumables from a hard life including a DMF.
People seem to think that 10 years is old for a Range Rover, it shouldn't be, nor should 100K miles, the fact is they are poorly made.

Click to expand...

I served my apprentership at a Ford commercial dealers (FG Gates) we used to repair a fleet of transits run by Percy Ingle (bakeries/cake people) they had transit with 4/99 Perkins Diesel fitted a true piece of **** in a vehicle.

The engine oil used to turn to gelly if the oil wasn't changed every 2500 miles, one vehicle had 3 brand new engines fitted in one year because of this problem. Todays vehicle should be able to cover 200,000+ without a problem but they have to be maintained.



PS. My old works van (a 59 reg transporter the DMF exploded at 95,000) again another great step forward in vehicle engine design (for the parts supplier).

zzr1200 said:

I served my apprentership at a Ford commercial dealers (FG Gates) we used to repair a fleet of transits run by Percy Ingle (bakeries/cake people) they had transit with 4/99 diesel Perkins a true piece of **** in a vehicle.

The engine oil used to turn to gelly if the oil wasn't changed every 2500 miles, one vehicle had 3 brand new engines fitted in one year because of this problem. Todays vehicle should be able to cover 200,000+ without a problem but they have to be maintained.

Click to expand...

Frank Gates was just up the road from where I worked as a lad.

Datatek said:

Frank Gates was just up the road from where I worked as a lad.

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Where and who for???????

zzr1200 said:

Where and who for???????

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Escotts Electrical, South? Woodford, Not too far from Teds Cafe which was on the roundabout by the river Roding on the A127

I remember now F G Gates were at the traffic lights and it was called Gates corner. There are photo's of Teds Transport Cafe on the web. All us bikers used to hang out there and race to the next roundabout and back. Happy days.

I see F G Gates are still going and located in Harlow these days, Escotts are long gone and so too I suspect is Teds Cafe.