Me again - really need some help...

I'm saving this link for later ..

Lucas distributor automatic advance springs, Reconditioned Lucas distributors, rebuilt Lucas distributors, recurved Lucas distributors from Distributor Doctor

these guys sell the little springs that I suspect I stretched when I cleaned my dizzy.. meaning as I believe a too strong advance curve and therefore pinkiung under load and overheating..

your own thoughts on whether I am chasing a red herring or on the right track are welcome.. i am also watching a few timing lights on Ebay but not quite got my head round what I should see if I'm right once I get the light on it...

mjltigger said:

I'm saving this link for later ..

Lucas distributor automatic advance springs, Reconditioned Lucas distributors, rebuilt Lucas distributors, recurved Lucas distributors from Distributor Doctor

these guys sell the little springs that I suspect I stretched when I cleaned my dizzy.. meaning as I believe a too strong advance curve and therefore pinkiung under load and overheating..

your own thoughts on whether I am chasing a red herring or on the right track are welcome.. i am also watching a few timing lights on Ebay but not quite got my head round what I should see if I'm right once I get the light on it...

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The engine data if you can get it will give you certain advance curves for that engine, ie at 2000 rpm there should be 6 deg advance and so on, but if your pulley or flywheel aint marked up with the marks, and many dont only having tdc, then you need a timing light with a vernier adjustment. Also some tests are done with vacuum on and other bits with it disconnected.

I think charlie explained how it works to you, so by removing and blanking the vac pipe you can diagnose one of the areas you are testing.

I have never seen springs damaged during fitting, you only have to pull it over the bits it sits on, to pull it further to damage it would be extream. Fitting them the wrong way might be more likely, getting them mixed up, but they are usually painted different colours.

In a mega timing issue where overheating was an issue I would expect to see other problems aswel like lack of power, running on after engine turned off and mega detonation. If that was the case you would be heading for holes in the pistons and burnt valves.

Take all the spark plugs out again, keeping them in order and have a look at the color of them and the condition. If your timing was so bad this is the first place that suffers, but it also gives some indication of how it is running.

as i do the compression test I will note the condition of the plugs as well and report back here.. the only reason I thought of the springs is that when I was trying to clean up the dizzy (which was so dirty it was tracking hence vehicle starting probs I think) the weights fell off completely suggesting to me that those springs were loose.. also when re-fitting them they were a pain to get on and I am pretty certain they are stretched.. the last couple of turns on each one looks wider than the rest of the spring..

at the time I didn't know what they did but talking it over with a mech he explained them for me while I was on hols and as I understand it with loose springs the dizzy will advance too much causing pinking which will cause an overheat..

on top of this the engine was running fine and with no overheating prior to the head gasket going.. other than mis firing when it got wet.. therefore the chances are something I did is causing the overheating.. as all I did was change the head gaskets and remove the dizzy to clean it then it sort of follows to me that either the heads aren't torqued properly or are warped (a hot compression test should show me one way or another) or the timing is wrong..

so this weekend I will compression test with a hot engine and unless that proves sommat I'll get a timing light and set the static timing up by the book exactly.. if I can replace those springs at the same time then even better as that will be another thing ruled out..

mjltigger said:

as i do the compression test I will note the condition of the plugs as well and report back here.. the only reason I thought of the springs is that when I was trying to clean up the dizzy (which was so dirty it was tracking hence vehicle starting probs I think) the weights fell off completely suggesting to me that those springs were loose.. also when re-fitting them they were a pain to get on and I am pretty certain they are stretched.. the last couple of turns on each one looks wider than the rest of the spring..

at the time I didn't know what they did but talking it over with a mech he explained them for me while I was on hols and as I understand it with loose springs the dizzy will advance too much causing pinking which will cause an overheat..

on top of this the engine was running fine and with no overheating prior to the head gasket going.. other than mis firing when it got wet.. therefore the chances are something I did is causing the overheating.. as all I did was change the head gaskets and remove the dizzy to clean it then it sort of follows to me that either the heads aren't torqued properly or are warped (a hot compression test should show me one way or another) or the timing is wrong..

so this weekend I will compression test with a hot engine and unless that proves sommat I'll get a timing light and set the static timing up by the book exactly.. if I can replace those springs at the same time then even better as that will be another thing ruled out..

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I dont think the engine being hot will make much difference in terms of the head gasket gone unless it was well blown and a cylinder down. In your case it would probably just be a slight blow past pressurizing the system and causing the overheating. If you were doing a compression test to determine the health of an engine then the hot and cold tests are something you do, but really to test the pistons, and if low some oil down the bores and a retest. You can do a pressure test, but that entails a compressed air line into each of the cylinders on the compression strokes to see if there is leak past valves or into the water system.

You dont need a timing light to do a static test since the engine is not running, and at this minute you need to make sure the head gasket aint gone and from what I hear you tell me also that the springs on the distributor are in the right place, both are different. Also they normally have the coils spaced out at the ends so probably not fooked.

When you turn the shaft you will see that the weights start to operate at different times, one spring turns one weight and the other weight two, if you have them mixed up the advance curve is all to fook.

I take it the head gasket indicated that it was blown when you had it off, take the spark plugs out as I said when its cold and lets see if there is any signs of water in a cylinder, and if nothing get it hot and lets see if you get any steam out of one of the cylinders when you take them out a second time.

Might be worth your while going to a breakers for a distributor, or at least looking at how the springs are on. I have rairly ever taken springs off.

tigger give me a shout ive got a spare dizzy you can look at to compare and over your way on thursday

david451 said:

I dont think the engine being hot will make much difference in terms of the head gasket gone unless it was well blown and a cylinder down. In your case it would probably just be a slight blow past pressurizing the system and causing the overheating. If you were doing a compression test to determine the health of an engine then the hot and cold tests are something you do, but really to test the pistons, and if low some oil down the bores and a retest. You can do a pressure test, but that entails a compressed air line into each of the cylinders on the compression strokes to see if there is leak past valves or into the water system.

You dont need a timing light to do a static test since the engine is not running, and at this minute you need to make sure the head gasket aint gone and from what I hear you tell me also that the springs on the distributor are in the right place, both are different. Also they normally have the coils spaced out at the ends so probably not fooked.

When you turn the shaft you will see that the weights start to operate at different times, one spring turns one weight and the other weight two, if you have them mixed up the advance curve is all to fook.

I take it the head gasket indicated that it was blown when you had it off, take the spark plugs out as I said when its cold and lets see if there is any signs of water in a cylinder, and if nothing get it hot and lets see if you get any steam out of one of the cylinders when you take them out a second time.

Might be worth your while going to a breakers for a distributor, or at least looking at how the springs are on. I have rairly ever taken springs off.

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there's no visible difference between the two springs and I didn't take them off they fell off - hence me thinking they may be fooked...

the old gaskets were very obviously blown when I took them off and the reason for me doing the compression test is to see if I have the heads on right (I know it's not a fool proof test but it's a pretty good indication I believe).. having set the timing with the timing marks by eye the reason for the timing light is to follow the RAVE instructions for setting static timing using a timing light.. if the gasket is seated and torqued correctlt then I can't see anything else I changed since the car was last running right that would cause overheating under load... it would also help me to see the advance curve but I need to get the figures for what the advance curve should be as well..

the next step I think would be to get the rad flow tested and testbook hooked up to see if there's a problem with the ignition timing in the ECU.. both of which are garage jobs and I would rather eliminate the things I can do from home first.

BaggyJim, thanks for the offer.. I'll PM you...

mjltigger said:

there's no visible difference between the two springs and I didn't take them off they fell off - hence me thinking they may be fooked...

the old gaskets were very obviously blown when I took them off and the reason for me doing the compression test is to see if I have the heads on right (I know it's not a fool proof test but it's a pretty good indication I believe).. having set the timing with the timing marks by eye the reason for the timing light is to follow the RAVE instructions for setting static timing using a timing light.. if the gasket is seated and torqued correctlt then I can't see anything else I changed since the car was last running right that would cause overheating under load... it would also help me to see the advance curve but I need to get the figures for what the advance curve should be as well..

the next step I think would be to get the rad flow tested and testbook hooked up to see if there's a problem with the ignition timing in the ECU.. both of which are garage jobs and I would rather eliminate the things I can do from home first.

BaggyJim, thanks for the offer.. I'll PM you...

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You need to rewind your tape, it was running fine before it blew the gaskets, so why is it blocked now, or a fault with the ecu.

Save your money with the timing light, if the engine has a ignition mark ie 10 degrees before or sumut on the pulley then set it static as you say and that entails turning the engine until its on that mark then turn the dizzy until the points just open, simple.

If it aint got the mark then its just a tdc mark and you need to set a timing light to 10 degrees and use the tdc mark, what the timing light does is convert that tdc mark to a 10 degrees before tdc, if you run the engine and set the timing with the ordinary light to the tdc mark then the ignition is set to tdc and not 10 before if that makes sense, also you need to take the vacuum pipe off to do it or you will get manafold pressure and the wrong reading. If it has all the marks then off you go and use the timing light tho, just seems costly.

And a final point is the revs have to be correct aswel, set it at 900 instead of 800 will throw it to fook, as you adjust it the revs will change so be aware of that, and keep it at the stated figure.

Hope that makes sense, been a while since I worked on petrols, but charlies yur man here.

the problem is that setting the revs using the dizzy doesn't work.. the timing marks are all present and correct so a strobe will do the job fine.. unfortunately when I remove the vacuum as suggested then move the dizzy to advance or retard the revs move slightly but instantly return to about 700rpm.. until I move the dizzy so far the engine stalls and wont restart.. might be my lack of experience, might be a fault with the dizzy (them springs again) or might be the ECU taking over..

yu have to have the lump running at about 3000 rpm - so the mechanical advance (springs) are at max. dont try it at tickover - coz there is no mechanical advance.

thanks MHM will try that.. although 3000rpm is just into overheat mode at the moment.. but if it's the timing that's causing that then it'll be OK quite quickly once I get started hopefully

If it's only doing it under load my money is still on the radiator being at fault. Have you taken it out and checked it yet?

nope not taken rad out yet.. need to get a thingy for the fan or borrow someone else's first... other than putting a new one in though how could I tell if the channels are blocked??

tigger the spanner for removing the viscous fan is only about 6 quid on ebay,dont forget that when removing the fan the nut must be undone clockwise not anti clockwise as this tightens it up,take rad out and flush it through with the garden hose then check to see if the vanes are full of muck if they are use a jet washer to clean it but be carefull.

and be careful if you use a hammer and chisel to undo the fan nut...if yer hit it too hard you'l snap the shaft....just like I did :doh::doh::doh:

couple of ways, Tigger - yu can remove and reverse flush the radiator in the principle (and hope) that by passing water through it backwards at forces blockages backwards and out.
Yu can also, sometimes, remove blockages by using LIQUID dishwasher liquid doh, because that acts as a degreaser and is mildy caustic (so dont leave it in for a long time). It works best when hot.
Or you can just run the engine up to operating temp and feel with yo hand over the radiator and feel for cold spots.

do you know if it 32mm or 36mm?

mjltigger said:

do you know if it 32mm or 36mm?

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get the double ended one then it will do for other cars if needed

Disco71 said:

and be careful if you use a hammer and chisel to undo the fan nut...if yer hit it too hard you'l snap the shaft....just like I did :doh::doh::doh:

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yer eavy anded booger

proly didnt help that i was tightenin up the nut as well :doh:

Disco71 said:

proly didnt help that i was tightenin up the nut as well :doh:

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aya you are right there,not the first time thats happened,a lot of folk dont realise about the thread going the wrong way.