M.o.t. Emmissions

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

point 1: if the cats are fcuked they are worth approx 20 quid each.

point 2: why will it? you wasnt happy with the service and got a second opinion, which 'will' prove to be a wise one. (so long as it passes it aint your issue)

point 3: i have only once had a car tested whilst i wasnt beside it. he failed it on the long track rod thingy on p38's so i bought one and took it to another garage who passed the one that was on even though i left the part in the car, showed him the fail cert and asked him to fit it at my expense if it should fail on said part!!

dont be telling me you cant engage em in conversation, if its gonna cost me i want the part and defect demonstrating so i can get it repaired and hopefully spot the issue before it happens again!!

mebbe the reason for an mot inspector not wanting to demonstrate issues is because they are trying to hoodwink the customer!!!

Suris · May 24, 2011

gavbriggs said:
point 1: if the cats are fcuked they are worth approx 20 quid each.
It won't be long before dual fuel vehicles must pass the emmission test on both fuels, believe me.

point 2: why will it? you wasnt happy with the service and got a second opinion, which 'will' prove to be a wise one. (so long as it passes it aint your issue)
Shopping arround between MOT stations alerts VOSA, if another test station passes a recent fail, they will be investigated, believe me.

point 3: i have only once had a car tested whilst i wasnt beside it. he failed it on the long track rod thingy on p38's so i bought one and took it to another garage who passed the one that was on even though i left the part in the car, showed him the fail cert and asked him to fit it at my expense if it should fail on said part!!
You should have raised the issue with VOSA.

dont be telling me you cant engage em in conversation, if its gonna cost me i want the part and defect demonstrating so i can get it repaired and hopefully spot the issue before it happens again!!
You can only engage the tester in conversation after the test is completed.

mebbe the reason for an mot inspector not wanting to demonstrate issues is because they are trying to hoodwink the customer!!!

Those people will be cought by VOSA and dealt with appropriately.

Hope that helps a bit.

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

Suris said:
Those people will be cought by VOSA and dealt with appropriately.

Hope that helps a bit.

show me the info where you cant speak to them and i will agree but it doesnt happen at the regular place i use.

it doesnt matter that it wont be long till they check vehicles on both fuels as for now they dont and its thier rules not mine!! plus if the cats are shot then you have to have new ones in that scenario anyway, why not put off the cost till we can believe you!!

i personally dont give a monkeys whether they are dealt with appropriately, its not me who has the qualification to mot cars so what do i know!! if he says its fine then its fine, if its not fine then he wont mind showing me whats wrong!!

just seems to me that some folk use the whitch craft of and mot test to dupe punters into costly fixes that can be avoided!!

just to note though that it would be best practice to fix the cats/lambdas or any other issue on a car in a proper manner, sometimes its not practical though if you need your car and wasnt expecting a couple of hundred quid to be spent on it.

oh and ive had a bad day, my bleedin strimmer has packed up so i'm argumentative!! lol!!

Suris · May 24, 2011

gavbriggs said:
oh and ive had a bad day, my bleedin strimmer has packed up so i'm argumentative!! lol!!

eightinavee · May 24, 2011

Just to muddy the waters further....... Its very possible for it to fail emissions on gas,it just depends on what is wrong.
What worries me is that the garage have taken money off you for a diagnostic check.If this is done properly by someone who knows what they are doing they will be able to tell you very quickly if the oxy sensors are switching or not - and then if the engine is running closed loop properly they can tell if the cats are failing.
Unless the cats are breaking up there is no sensible reason to break them up.

oldskool · May 24, 2011

gavbriggs said:
point 1: if the cats are fcuked they are worth approx 20 quid each.

point 2: why will it? you wasnt happy with the service and got a second opinion, which 'will' prove to be a wise one. (so long as it passes it aint your issue)

point 3: i have only once had a car tested whilst i wasnt beside it. he failed it on the long track rod thingy on p38's so i bought one and took it to another garage who passed the one that was on even though i left the part in the car, showed him the fail cert and asked him to fit it at my expense if it should fail on said part!!

dont be telling me you cant engage em in conversation, if its gonna cost me i want the part and defect demonstrating so i can get it repaired and hopefully spot the issue before it happens again!!

mebbe the reason for an mot inspector not wanting to demonstrate issues is because they are trying to hoodwink the customer!!!

I will tell ya exactly that, the tester is not soppossed to be interupted/disturbed unless absolutely neccassery during an MOT, the customer/.member of public/non employee of MOT station shouldn't be in the workshop anyway (unless its a desiganated viewing area) and while the tester is testing he's working for VOSA not the garage.

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

oldskool said:
I will tell ya exactly that, the tester is not soppossed to be interupted/disturbed unless absolutely neccassery during an MOT, the customer/.member of public/non employee of MOT station shouldn't be in the workshop anyway (unless its a desiganated viewing area) and while the tester is testing he's working for VOSA not the garage.

so where is the 'rulez'?

in the regular place i use there are several seats next to the test area, i can only imagine thats for people to sit on.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inspection procedure

The entire test should be carried out by one NT whose name is on the list of NTs with suitable assistance when necessary. The whole of the test should be carried out without interruption.

thats the only bit i can find in the procedure that states they cant be interupted, now this as it appears above seems to mean the cant start, then go for tea break then resume!!

its irrelevant anyway because if they pass the vehicle its passed!! simple as that.

just shows that the fella i use isnt into ripping folk off and will give you an explanation regardless of if he is working for vosa or not!! (i think they are agents of vosa not strictly working for vosa)

:drum:

[/FONT]

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

I stand corrected!!!

Moto MOT - About The MOT Test says:

How are motorcycles tested?

Moto MOT - Motorcycle MOT Test Centre based in Chigwell We have been established since 2002 and are one of very few Motorcycle MOT Test Centers within Chigwell that is able to carry out your test at a moments notice.

MOT test stations have designated test bays where they conduct the test, using a range of specialized equipment. The test procedures are laid out in a manual, which the test station should make available to you if you want to look at it. If your vehicle has failed the test, you will be given a failure document with reference to this manual. You can watch the test from a designated viewing area but you are not allowed to interrupt the tester while he is working. (this is one company's procedure i'm going to assume this is because of rulez and not just thier company rulez!!!)

i'd still be asking him anyway, i want to know whats broke and what needs to be done to fix it!!!

mozz smith · May 24, 2011

further update , after reading all your comments and may i say a big thankyou for all your imput i sat down and tried to reason all this out , firstly i contacted the lpg installer and explained what had happened his first words was , rubbish they have not set the emission tester properly theyv'e tested it on petrol .read out to me the analyser results soon as i said the first one (its in 3 parts ) fast idle test he said it again rubbish they havent set the analyser right so the rest is a waste of time ,,,i then read out the rest and yes that was rubbish too he said to either take it back to them and do it properly or go elsewhere ,, so i rang the guy who did the test and he assured me he tested it on both gas and petrol so i didn't say anything else ,, my query is if hes done 2 analysis i.e. gas and petrol shouldn't they be 2 printouts ?????? furthermore i rang vosa who basically said that the test has to be done according to the set vosa standard regs chapter 7.3 exhaust and emissions .section 7 multifuel vechicle. now my point do i let them fit a new pre cat lambada sensor at a cost of £109.00+vat and his words to me was it may afterall be the cat ???? so he wouldn't say wether after fitting the sensor that i would get a mot ???????? si ive told him order sensor il'l be round in morning .. now here's my dilema . do i go and ask him to redo the emision test ???? do i just go elsewhere ???? ( am i entitled under the law to do this ) ????? or do i let him fit the lambada ????????????? any thoughts lads p.s. also when i spoke to the tester he couldn't remember how many cats it had ???? that was a couple of hours after he did the test ???? MANY THANKS for your anticipated suggestions kind regards and sorry ive dragged this out CHEERS :beer2: MOZZ

wammers · May 24, 2011

mozz smith said:
further update , after reading all your comments and may i say a big thankyou for all your imput i sat down and tried to reason all this out , firstly i contacted the lpg installer and explained what had happened his first words was , rubbish they have not set the emission tester properly theyv'e tested it on petrol .read out to me the analyser results soon as i said the first one (its in 3 parts ) fast idle test he said it again rubbish they havent set the analyser right so the rest is a waste of time ,,,i then read out the rest and yes that was rubbish too he said to either take it back to them and do it properly or go elsewhere ,, so i rang the guy who did the test and he assured me he tested it on both gas and petrol so i didn't say anything else ,, my query is if hes done 2 analysis i.e. gas and petrol shouldn't they be 2 printouts ?????? furthermore i rang vosa who basically said that the test has to be done according to the set vosa standard regs chapter 7.3 exhaust and emissions .section 7 multifuel vechicle. now my point do i let them fit a new pre cat lambada sensor at a cost of £109.00+vat and his words to me was it may afterall be the cat ???? so he wouldn't say wether after fitting the sensor that i would get a mot ???????? si ive told him order sensor il'l be round in morning .. now here's my dilema . do i go and ask him to redo the emision test ???? do i just go elsewhere ???? ( am i entitled under the law to do this ) ????? or do i let him fit the lambada ????????????? any thoughts lads p.s. also when i spoke to the tester he couldn't remember how many cats it had ???? that was a couple of hours after he did the test ???? MANY THANKS for your anticipated suggestions kind regards and sorry ive dragged this out CHEERS :beer2: MOZZ

Just take it somewhere else. Have a look through this.
www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

Suris · May 24, 2011

gavbriggs said:
so where is the 'rulez'?

in the regular place i use there are several seats next to the test area, i can only imagine thats for people to sit on.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inspection procedure [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The entire test should be carried out by one NT whose name is on the list of NTs with suitable assistance when necessary. The whole of the test should be carried out without interruption. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]thats the only bit i can find in the procedure that states they cant be interupted, now this as it appears above seems to mean the cant start, then go for tea break then resume!![/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]its irrelevant anyway because if they pass the vehicle its passed!! simple as that.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]just shows that the fella i use isnt into ripping folk off and will give you an explanation regardless of if he is working for vosa or not!! (i think they are agents of vosa not strictly working for vosa)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]:drum:[/FONT]

You can argue your point till the cows come home mate, but you are not allowed to engage the NT in conversation during the test.
Many a NT has been cought out by a 'incognito' presenter

mozz smith · May 24, 2011

CHEERS WAMMY if i do take it elsewhere am i breaking the law ??????? cheersw mozz

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

well i think hes a tit and should be told!!!

if the tester isnt familiar with lpg'd cars then he will probably make a mistake in the setup of the computer, originally the tester i use did and as i watched the computer i asked him if it was set for gas, it wasnt and he had to get the gaffer over to sort it out!!! after that it was plain sailing and it passed without cats!!

i would go somewhere else and explain the situation. you can check the lambdas ith a cheap piece of kit from ebay. the elm 327 hooked up to a laptop and some free software. it will also clear any engine faults recorded but it wont do any other systems on the car.

you will see the lambda switch voltage and you can also take certain reading. its handy but it wont fix whatever issue you have!!

i wonder if the lpg installer has the equipment to test it for you and get a printout so you can go back to the mot place and show them they are wrong???

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

Suris said:
You can argue your point till the cows come home mate, but you are not allowed to engage the NT in conversation during the test.
Many a NT has been cought out by a 'incognito' presenter

i dont want to argue, i have said that your not allowed to interupt. i just do!! he can tell me to shut the f up if he wants but i still want to see whats wrong and it seems from the op's experience and my own i am justified in questioning thier judgement!!

wammers · May 24, 2011

mozz smith said:
CHEERS WAMMY if i do take it elsewhere am i breaking the law ??????? cheersw mozz

No. Who is to say you have not done the repairs. The place will be checked by VOSA if they pass it, i don't think so. They can only go on the print outs. IF the next printout is fine it passes simples. We had a MOT test passed by a vehicle that had brake pipes in a shocking condition a few threads ago, that had obviously been like that at time of test. VOSA did not want to know.

gavbriggs · May 24, 2011

something funny about the mot what we all seem to forget is that its a 45 (ish) minute test and it gives a 12 month certificate. they do say tho it only says that its ok on that day!!!

so basically its not worth the paper its printed on anyway!!!

SAMATT · May 24, 2011

The garage I take mine too is really good, 1 you can watch and chat to the mot tester while he is doing the work and have a good old nose around underneath while it is on the ramps.

2nd emissions!!!! they will always make sure you pass on them.

As long as the structure of the car is good and it is not a danger to you or the public he is happy and will advise you if anything is needed to get done which is minor..ie bulbs etc!!

wammers · May 24, 2011

gavbriggs said:
something funny about the mot what we all seem to forget is that its a 45 (ish) minute test and it gives a 12 month certificate. they do say tho it only says that its ok on that day!!!

so basically its not worth the paper its printed on anyway!!!

Brakes, Lights, steering and suspension was all it was when it first came out. And a car was only due one when 10 years old. It has gotten to be a jobs for the boys test now. Failing a vehicle because the number plate is dirty or one of the bulbs has failed has got to be the biggest joke on the bloody planet. You will have to have condoms and tissue in the glove box next. Just in case you get lucky.

SAMATT · May 24, 2011

You are right Wammers it does take the pi@@ now which is why I like my garage I take it to for the mot basically as long as the car is safe to you and other people he is happy.

Like you said bulbs number plate dirty..... really!!! it just takes the feckin pi@@

mozz smith · May 25, 2011

RESULT . well lads when u know your right and good manners prevail you get the right result . to bring this thread to its conclusion heres what happened .... at 0900 this morning i armed with all the info from vosa and my lpg installer went back to the m.o.t. garage and spoke to owner who wasnt there yesterday .anyway fully explained everything and his first words . apologised profusely and called the tester to the office asked him what went on and the fella says sorry ive only done lpg once before ( very honest fella ) and said i will redo it immediatley and double check the vosa manual ... this he did and the car passed instantly . the guy apologised again and said hed learnt something new and thanked me for bringing it to his attention then went back to his work ... the owner who is guenuinley a nice guy was well satisfied that the situatuion was resolved and when i first spoke to him at 0900 he did say that he would sort it out at whatever cost or time to him as his customers are extremely important to them, he then offered a full refund completely no charge at all and gave me assurances that this is how he runs his buisness , i said i insist i pay for the m.o.t. and that all ends mutually happy , after a free brew and a free book , that was it all done and dusted ,,furthermore i learnt something today cos asi normally go about things with a big mouth then sometimes other ways and means DO ACTUALLY WORK ... im totally happy and over the situation and will indeed visit the said garage again ,,,,may i say a big THANKYOU for all your imputs CHEERS :beer2: MOZZ

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