Lost 5th gear

My 110 really does not seem to want to break 300k! After replacing the timing belt twice (are other thread) I had got everything back up and running with no problems. Drove to Bridgend and back today (about 300miles of motorway) and 20miles from home as I entered a roundabout in 5th there was a lound clunk/bang and I lost drive.
The gear box (lt77) was rebuilt by Ashcroft about three years ago and approx 60k. I have drive in all other gears, including reverse, and managed to get home using the rest of the box. Any immediate suggestions what the problem may be?

Before i drove it again id want to remove the drain plug and look for bits of metal before it damages anything else

layshaft snapped at rear

jamesmartin said:

layshaft snapped at rear

Click to expand...

That was my fear. I am assuming that is remove the box and off for another rebuild.

20,000 miles per year in a 110. You must be clocking up millions of nectar points. Do Ashcrofts accept them?

Col

Colthebrummie said:

20,000 miles per year in a 110. You must be clocking up millions of nectar points. Do Ashcrofts accept them?

Col

Click to expand...

It has been to Italy and Morocco twice in the time, but I do do a lot of UK millage as well, it is my daily driver. I try not to look at my fuel bills!

Are the reconditioned gearboxes not as good as the originals? This is my third that has just broken! The original box lasted 200k and then the trasferbox dropped it oil and sized itself chewing up the gearbox output shaft in the process. Nothing else wrong with the gearbox. Fitted a no name recon which lasted about 40k and then the layshaft bearings began to howl, had this reconditioned by ashcorft and it has lasted 60k before snapping the layshaft! Not very impressed really. They have always had the oil changed every year, and the levels checked every 6k when the engine is serviced.

dag019 said:

It has been to Italy and Morocco twice in the time, but I do do a lot of UK millage as well, it is my daily driver. I try not to look at my fuel bills!

Are the reconditioned gearboxes not as good as the originals? This is my third that has just broken! The original box lasted 200k and then the trasferbox dropped it oil and sized itself chewing up the gearbox output shaft in the process. Nothing else wrong with the gearbox. Fitted a no name recon which lasted about 40k and then the layshaft bearings began to howl, had this reconditioned by ashcorft and it has lasted 60k before snapping the layshaft! Not very impressed really. They have always had the oil changed every year, and the levels checked every 6k when the engine is serviced.

Click to expand...

we dont know l/s has snapped its my opinion based on what you said, and unless its a gear selecting issue with the gear box top, then box needs stripping, a recon is never as good as new as you only replace wearing parts ,ie bearings seals ,baulk rings and a few of the major components, so much is original or good used from stock, but even new parts arent going to be the quality they were the factories dont exists anymore and even lr parts are going to be sourced from other sources, in the day lr would have ordered large numbers of parts regularly to feed the production line now only hundreds or low thousands will be ordered
ps back in the day it wasnt uncommon to recon an lt77 at 60k,60k would have have taken much longer to achieve,obviously some boxes managed much greater mileage

When I trained as a mechanic, 45 years ago, we were told that any major mechanical part of a vehicle had a probable life span of 100,000 miles. After that, it was living on borrowed time. It's a rough rule of thumb that I stick to when buying cars and estimating the running costs.

Col

Well the plus side, of you can call it that is I needed to change the clutch anyway. So there is no extra labour it just means I have to take it out now rather than in a couple of weeks when I was ready.

@jamesmartin what would I be looking for if it was a gear selection issue? Although I am not too hopeful as there is still a positive selection of 5th, all gears are positive infact, but there is just no drive.

I also guess I have accepted the low engine service interval and regular oil change, I suppose it fits other components will also have a short service life. I must have just been lucky to get the original to 200k and cannot expect a replacement to get to the same point.

if it feels like it selects chances are thats fine there are 2 pivot pins that could dislodge meaning gear is no longer been selected

jamesmartin said:

if it feels like it selects chances are thats fine there are 2 pivot pins that could dislodge meaning gear is no longer been selected

Click to expand...

Once I have the box out and on the bench is that something I can check myself without a full strip down? Or conversely is there a test I can do to confirm a broken layshaft without a full strip down.

jamesmartin said:

if it feels like it selects chances are thats fine there are 2 pivot pins that could dislodge meaning gear is no longer been selected

Click to expand...

Once I have the box out and on the bench is that something I can check myself without a full strip down? Or conversely is there a test I can do to confirm a broken layshaft without a full strip down.

remove the top and have a look

jamesmartin said:

remove the top and have a look

Click to expand...

Apologies, what do you mean by remove the top. I have not previously stripped a box down in any form, what do I need to do to do this. Once the selector turrets have been removed is it just the four remaining bolts at the rear of the box?
Will this then just lift off or is there a set procedure for removal and refitting?

leave everything else on bar disconnecting the linkage and remove the 4 rear bolts

jamesmartin said:

leave everything else on bar disconnecting the linkage and remove the 4 rear bolts

Click to expand...

I have already stripped the selectors off in preparation for removing the box, will hopefully have it sat on the bench tomorrow evening, do I need to refit them or will it not be a problem? I need to do the clutch anyway so even if it is just a selector issue removing the box is not completely lost labour.

dag019 said:

I have already stripped the selectors off in preparation for removing the box, will hopefully have it sat on the bench tomorrow evening, do I need to refit them or will it not be a problem? I need to do the clutch anyway so even if it is just a selector issue removing the box is not completely lost labour.

Click to expand...

it doesnt matter either way

jamesmartin said:

it doesnt matter either way

Click to expand...

great thank you. I am sure I will have more questions regards exactly what I am looking at once it is sat on the bench and I have the top off.

Well I have finally removed the gearbox and got it onto the bench:


I found out why I was having occasional difficulties with the clutch:


And am also very unimpressed with the new TRW clutch slave that has only been fitted about three weeks. Looks to be a casting fault by the rust line so will complain to paddocks and see what they can do:


I have taken the top of the box off as @jamesmartin suggested and can see inside. Below are two pictures of in neutral and in 5th. What exactly am I supposed to be looking for to check?



With it out on the bench I can give a few more details on the lack of 5th gear as well. When in 5th and turning the input shaft clockwise there is a ratcheting sound and no drive. When turning the input shaft anti clockwise (I know not what it is supposed to do) there is occasional drive and a much louder ratcheting noise.

youve proved it needs to come to bits,does the top 5th gear and synchro hub turn when you turn input