Kenlowe Fan and Uprated Intercooler?
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sorry folks - still disagree, but will agree to differ 
sorry folks - still disagree, but will agree to differ
you best get on to x-eng n tell em their instructions are wrong
chris_mack
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yeh if u could take a couple more pics that would be great, i just cant work out how to physically fit the filter in the gap, did u cut away some of the inner wing?
what is that filter in front of ur fuel filter?
what is that filter in front of ur fuel filter?
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you best get on to x-eng n tell em their instructions are wrong
"Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator "
I know the x-fan aint a mercury bulb system, but x-eng state that they should be fitted into the top hose.
i'll get a few more pics up today when it's not so dark outside, i'd be interested to see how yours is looking
basically the position of the TD air filter can didnt change - so no cutting of the wing is required and the pipewoks is just fitted around it - you'll see from the pics
the shiny looking "filter" is actually an engine coolant pre-heater
"Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator "
I know the x-fan aint a mercury bulb system, but x-eng state that they should be fitted into the top hose.
I dont know where you got that from, but it's deffo NOT what x-eng say here in either of these sets of instructions - specifically
"The adaptor should be fitted in the bottom rad hose. The water flows flows in to the top of the rad and out of the bottom so the sensor will detect when the rad is not providing enough cooling itself and switch on one or both fans to provide more."
http://x-eng.co.uk/Instructions/X-Fan.pdf
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here
I accept what you say, Sean, but I base my arguement on the following:-
1) What is the purpose of a cooling fan? - ensuring the engine does not overheat, so what do you need to monitor - the highest temperature in the block, this can usually be found at the exit point from the cylinder head, therefore the best monitoring point is that which is closest to that point - usually the exit hose to the radiator.
2) What happens if the radiator becomes blocked (mud ingestion thro off-roading?). measuring the water temp at the engine outlet tells you what the engine temp is, not the return temp, which, if the rad is blocked, could be sufficient that there is little or no flow, and could be cool.
3) by measuring the temp at the coolant inlet point, rather than the exit point, you are measuring the cooling efficiency of the radiator, not the heat source itself.
I believe that this is one of the main design failures of the Hippoo, which sufferes from localised superheating of the water in the heads, but the thermostat is measuring return flow temperature from the radiator. when the engine is turned off, the water temp in the engine continues to rise, but the return water flow, being in the ambient air flow, does not see any of this.
I always switch my electric fans from a sensor as close to the water exit as possible and power it directly from the battery, so that if there is any heat soak after the engine is turned off, than the fans will still cool the water in the radiator and the thermal conductivilty will continue to cool the engine. On my '40 which suffers from the being rear engined, with a rad in the front, an electric water pump will continue to pump water around the system until a nominal water temperature is reached. I have seen too many engines blow due to heatsoak allowing the engine to cook after turning the engine off.
Having said that - it is down to the individual, you do what you think is best for your engines.
I accept what you say, Sean, but I base my arguement on the following:-
1) What is the purpose of a cooling fan? - ensuring the engine does not overheat, so what do you need to monitor - the highest temperature in the block, this can usually be found at the exit point from the cylinder head, therefore the best monitoring point is that which is closest to that point - usually the exit hose to the radiator.
2) What happens if the radiator becomes blocked (mud ingestion thro off-roading?). measuring the water temp at the engine outlet tells you what the engine temp is, not the return temp, which, if the rad is blocked, could be sufficient that there is little or no flow, and could be cool.
3) by measuring the temp at the coolant inlet point, rather than the exit point, you are measuring the cooling efficiency of the radiator, not the heat source itself.
I believe that this is one of the main design failures of the Hippoo, which sufferes from localised superheating of the water in the heads, but the thermostat is measuring return flow temperature from the radiator. when the engine is turned off, the water temp in the engine continues to rise, but the return water flow, being in the ambient air flow, does not see any of this.
I always switch my electric fans from a sensor as close to the water exit as possible and power it directly from the battery, so that if there is any heat soak after the engine is turned off, than the fans will still cool the water in the radiator and the thermal conductivilty will continue to cool the engine. On my '40 which suffers from the being rear engined, with a rad in the front, an electric water pump will continue to pump water around the system until a nominal water temperature is reached. I have seen too many engines blow due to heatsoak allowing the engine to cook after turning the engine off.
Having said that - it is down to the individual, you do what you think is best for your engines.
i do see your logic and i can't fault it - our 90 has one in the top and bottom with different temp stats in
when the beast is finished it will have some form of leccy circulatory system such that it will continue to run after the engine is off
"Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator "
I know the x-fan aint a mercury bulb system, but x-eng state that they should be fitted into the top hose.
oi ya cheeky git you've quoted that well out of context !
these is what is says - in full .........
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The thermostatic switch insert we supply is designed to switch one fan on at 88 degrees C and off at 83 and the other on at 92 and off at 87 which is about right for most vehicles.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The housing takes standard 22mm thread [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]inserts, available from most motor factors (through Intermotor)
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The sensor is capable of switching 17A and will drive the most chunky fans available. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Fans are available in all shapes and sizes. Many are sourced from vehicle breaker yards for only a few pounds. These are easily adapted to fit your vehicle.
Good quality new fans are available from Kenlow and Passet or Spal for most vehicles.
Although all of the above supply thermostatic switches,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]some of which are even variable, none of them are capable of switching two fans and they rarely seem to last longer than a few months due to corrosion or water ingress.
Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator - it is near impossible to seal this joint and the thin capilliary tube is fragile.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Probably the best testamonial for this kind of switch is that it is used by almost all motor manufacturers to switch electric fans. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT] Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator - it is near impossible to seal this joint and the thin capilliary tube is fragile.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Probably the best testamonial for this kind of switch is that it is used by almost all motor manufacturers to switch electric fans. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Thats talking about the other type of stat as per Kenlowe etc .......... it's NOT saying fit the x-eng switch in that position
but as you say each to their own
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"Many use a mercury bulb on the end of a copper capilliary tube which needs to be inserted inbetween the top hose and the pipe which comes out of the radiator "
I know the x-fan aint a mercury bulb system, but x-eng state that they should be fitted into the top hose.
it aint out of context - it merely states that those types that use a "mercury bulb ..... need(s) to be inserted....."
it does not state that x-eng products should, just that x-eng recognise that some should.
understandably x-eng aint gonna say its better than there product. I believe the switching temps for the fan, may be relevant to positioning, for example, one that switches at 92/87 may be better in the top hose and one that switches at 88/83 may be better in the bottom hose. You certainly wouldnt want a bottom hose switching at, say 98C would you?
"why do people still put the stat in the top hose ?
shirly you need to know the temp coming out of the rad, so if the rad cant cope THEN it turns yer fan on
think we've had this conversation ere before and am still not convinced the top is the right place"
Surely if you put the thermostat in your bottom hose then by the time the fans come on the temperature coming out of your engine and into radiator by the top hose could be high enough to damage your engine.
The water coming out of your bottom hose will be significantly less than that in the engine because it has already been cooled by the radiator.
Just seems a safer option to me to put it on the top hose and then as soon as the temperature coming out of the engine approches damaging levels the fans kick in to supply a cool water to the engine. As soon as the temp is normal coming out of the engine they stop.
shirly you need to know the temp coming out of the rad, so if the rad cant cope THEN it turns yer fan on
think we've had this conversation ere before and am still not convinced the top is the right place"
Surely if you put the thermostat in your bottom hose then by the time the fans come on the temperature coming out of your engine and into radiator by the top hose could be high enough to damage your engine.
The water coming out of your bottom hose will be significantly less than that in the engine because it has already been cooled by the radiator.
Just seems a safer option to me to put it on the top hose and then as soon as the temperature coming out of the engine approches damaging levels the fans kick in to supply a cool water to the engine. As soon as the temp is normal coming out of the engine they stop.
well i couldn't think how else to word it.
By the time the water has reached a high enough temp to need the fans has filtered through the rad to the bottom hose the temperature inside the engine will be significantly higher and MAY be damaging.
By putting the thermostat on the top hose you are reducing the delay time between reaching a high temp and the fans coming on.
By the time the water has reached a high enough temp to need the fans has filtered through the rad to the bottom hose the temperature inside the engine will be significantly higher and MAY be damaging.
By putting the thermostat on the top hose you are reducing the delay time between reaching a high temp and the fans coming on.
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hee hee.
I concur with C18
tizz simple - how much does your radiator drop the coolant temperature? If you dont know then you could be damaging your engine without realising it. Apart from the fact that the radiator cooling will depend on many factors, ambient air temp, forward motion of car, wind velocity...........
I concur with C18
tizz simple - how much does your radiator drop the coolant temperature? If you dont know then you could be damaging your engine without realising it. Apart from the fact that the radiator cooling will depend on many factors, ambient air temp, forward motion of car, wind velocity...........
A gt40, naw never, if yeh have yer a jammy bastid.
Grippa
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