is the new LR engine a ford cost cutter

although i understand diesel engines have much more torque than petrol engines, but from the rover V8 to a 4 cyclinder block from a transit. is it any good or are they just cutting corners.

so is the new engine better than the TD5 and V8 is this the start of the end of the landrover as a top of its class functional vehical.

I don't really know.

i cant comment on the new duratec diesel. but generally speaking for a working vehcile like a defender you would go for a diesel everytime.

better in water, more economic, better mileage, more torque.....and prob a host of other reasons.

the rover v8 is a great engine for fun if your name is "bp esso mcshell" (quote clarkson) esp. for the noise with a straight through exhaust....im drooling just thinking of it.... but not the best for a farmer etc

OK, but what im saying is are the land rover engines being downgraded each time from 8 to 5 to 4, my friends ford mondeo has this engine (i thinks).

i dont know im no expert but i wouldnt think the number of cylinders matters so much as power and torque.

off the top of my head, i think bhp of the new defender is the same as the td5, but it is more torquey.

by the way very few "defender"s ever left the factory with a v8. i think the first was the stage one v8 which was a SIII and then a few 90/110s also had v8s although most were 2.5 diesel. the only one i know of since then was the limited edition 50th anniverary defender released in 1998.

Bobby651 said:

OK, but what im saying is are the land rover engines being downgraded each time from 8 to 5 to 4, my friends ford mondeo has this engine (i thinks).

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It may be I am not sure, I know it is from the transit. A lot of it is in the gearing, and although the same engine it can be tuned to give less speed more power, it could have a different cam shaft for more torque and the ECU will be programmed differently.

speaking as a former mechanic the ford diesel engines are normaly really strong and half reliable could be worse they could be owned by vauxhall

Hiya Bobby

i dont know where you get the idea that LR are down-grading the engines they place in their products.

It always been the same!
The series ones `were very under powered & soursec what was available at the time.
The series 2 & 2a`s had engines that put on ave about 60bhp having had a series 2 pertol & a Serias 2a diesel i can tesitfy to that
Even the stage 1 V8`s were initially only for export and at that were de-tuned. ( and a us based GM unit)

Then you have the "Italian-Job" turbo diesels fitted to the early defenders prior to the introduction of the 200tdi´s a real "choice" engine that!

The 200 & 300tdi`s a concensus seems to have it are good mainly due to their abilty to be home serviced.

The TD5 seem to be popular with others because of their seeming everday use reliability.

A advantage / disadvantage of the series & defender product line has been that they have always been "refugees of the parts bins" of whoever owned the company at the time.

Even now the range rover line is runnning jag motors and latest rangerover & in the past, BMW 5 series diesels.

It may not be the most popular choice to run transit motors in their product but it certainly isnt the fist time they have had to put up with what´s going spare at the time.

Although not a fan of the electronic-based EMS in of road vehicles in order to keep the vehicles clean enough to pass ever stringent emission-controls LR have had to source new power units.

Where LR have really failed to run with tha balll is on the basic things like fully gavanising their chassis avoiding the eletrolisis corosion their aluminum based products have - Most importantly keeping their Defender line simple (bar the power units)

The bitter irony is with LR is that they sell their entire product range based on the Go/get anywhere image of their defender based product and ironically invest the least in the product until forced to do so by external influnces such as emission control!

happy trails

Abe

Hey Abe, get your facts right. The Italian VM 2.4/2.5 turbo diesel was only fitted to the RR. The early turbo diesel in the Defender was the TD 'Falcon' 2.5 LR engine, pretty crap really, possibly the worst LR engine ever. But I agree with everything else you say.

ps my Defender has a galvanised chassis from new, but it was not made in England. Also a better back seat which passengers can get almost comfortable in.

I've driven the new Defender with the Ford engine and it's OK to drive. It feels stronger low down than the TD5 that I own (in standard TD5 form anyway) but has less character. the gearbox is much smoother and 6th gear gives less noise on the motorway...not that I have a problem with my TD5. The Ford engine tends to have a delayed response though, if you accelerate and then take your foot off it seems to take a second to stop accelerating. Also it sounds like a Transit van! The anti-stall is great though they tell me, I didn't try it but the low range gears seemed lower than mine. I didn't like the dash or the loss of the vents below the screen.

JimAttrill said:

Hey Abe, get your facts right. The Italian VM 2.4/2.5 turbo diesel was only fitted to the RR. The early turbo diesel in the Defender was the TD 'Falcon' 2.5 LR engine, pretty crap really, possibly the worst LR engine ever. But I agree with everything else you say.

ps my Defender has a galvanised chassis from new, but it was not made in England. Also a better back seat which passengers can get almost comfortable in.

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mine has the first td engine and is still going strong for a 1986 model chassis never been welded in it's life and engine has done 170 odd thousand miles yet still strong as a ox just comes down to maintanence fair enough it's not gonna win a race but when did endurance ever become about speed and it's get it's fair share of off road use it could be worse i suppose i could have a computer managing my veichle for me i wonder in 21 years will these new ones still be running ???? the engines possibly but the rest ??

i would actually expect a ecu to be more reliable than the mechanical parts around it simply becuase it doesnt "do" anything. its not moving, nothing mechanical about it, it simply sits there getting warm.

thanks, made me feel neglected nothing a beer and cigar won't fix

i say put the diesel V8 from the new rangie in to the defender

read my other post thats what i was asking whether that is a possible home brew operation, would it not be to big

In response to the ECU does nowt philosophy in my experience working with both BMW and currently ford , the ECU is the cause of all modern problems in vehicles they are a bloody nightmare just ask mondeo drivers about diesel injection control modules! cant get em and a hell of a cost when you do
I say sod the emission controls and just get on with it and tell these bloody tree huggin scare mongers to bog off and have fun for once in there sad lives

landy10 said:

In response to the ECU does nowt philosophy in my experience working with both BMW and currently ford , the ECU is the cause of all modern problems in vehicles they are a bloody nightmare just ask mondeo drivers about diesel injection control modules! cant get em and a hell of a cost when you do
I say sod the emission controls and just get on with it and tell these bloody tree huggin scare mongers to bog off and have fun for once in there sad lives

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bloody well said!!! i blame the EU for all our automotive problems, with bus lanes, and anti motorist programs such as 4x4 tax.

Ahoy there group

The point i was hinting at is the fact LR product Particularly have in the past been the victims of "hobsons choice" many times with regard to power unit availability. What is done is done and one must live with it

What is unacceptable is poor design - look at the oil filter location on a TD5!
Bobby has a point ECU`s can be a pain - but if you have them in such a vehicle Keep them "high & dry" as high as is practical even totaly air / water tight for the little extra cst involved.

Air intakes as high a entry point as possible (wing-top not wing side) etc etc

Axle breathers piped to a high point in the vehicle

theres should all be standard on a vehicle that pertains to be
"the best 4x4 by far"

Lets not even start on the theme of build quality - thats a whole theme in itself!

To conclude look at the history of say a G-wagon to that of a LR defender / series with regard to design fit for the purpose and power units interchangerbility

I have allways foud the Ford range of Diseasels to be fine, since the common rail fuel injection system was adopted, I have a Mk1 focus (as well as the Def) TDCI and its engine is fantastic, strong and economical, the Tranny we used to lug 10 divers and thier kit to the Orkneys went wery well considering it was grossly over-loaded.....

it might just be that as engine designers can prise more power from a given size of lump then the size of engine needed for a given job get smaller.

1900's ish cars had 12 litre engines developing about 20 hp
1930 bently had a 4 1/2 litre engine producing 130 hp
1980 ish F1 had 1 1/2 litre engines developing 1400hp