Immobilisation spider location on Def 1997 300 Tdi?

Reading all the forums and workshop manuals, it should be clear as water that the location of the immobilisation spider is in the battery box under LH front seat. Not the case in my 1997 Defender 300 Tdi. It is nowhere to be found in either seatboxes (and believe me when I say I have had my head in there a good number of times!). Where can this spider be located if it is not where it is supposed to be !!

If it is any help, the Defender is of German origin (bought in Germany and exported by me) and LHD.

If it is sensitive information to some, please PM, as I am going crazy. I do not want to e.g. disassemble the dash not knowing where to look.

google is a wonderfull thing

landrover Landrover 300TDi(non EGR), common fualt

That looks like the Disco location that link.

Yea, that link seems like the usual disco stuff, of which there is plenty on google - but this is a Defender and all Defender related material points to the seatbox - and there it ain't on mine! Maybe my Defender was built 1st of April and Solihull decided to play funny ;P Hide and seek dear customer

fredrikarnell said:

Yea, that link seems like the usual disco stuff, of which there is plenty on google - but this is a Defender and all Defender related material points to the seatbox - and there it ain't on mine! Maybe my Defender was built 1st of April and Solihull decided to play funny ;P Hide and seek dear customer

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It sounds more likely that you'll have a 10as box behind your speedo binnacle.

ratty said:

It sounds more likely that you'll have a 10as box behind your speedo binnacle.

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Hmm.. good point. Would a 10AS alarm box replace the spider? I was under the impression that the alarm box was separate from the spider - at least that is how things are shown in the wiring diagrams (usually found on google as a pdf: "electrical schemes - defender 300 tdi.pdf", page 14). I assumed all Defenders ('96-'99) came with both alarm and immobilisation or nothing.

fredrikarnell said:

Hmm.. good point. Would a 10AS alarm box replace the spider? I was under the impression that the alarm box was separate from the spider - at least that is how things are shown in the wiring diagrams (usually found on google as a pdf: "electrical schemes - defender 300 tdi.pdf", page 14). I assumed all Defenders ('96-'99) came with both alarm and immobilisation or nothing.

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http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/LandRoverSecurityManual.pdf

ratty said:

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/LandRoverSecurityManual.pdf

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Aah, this one, seen it a long time ago, thanks for refreshing!

Reading in the pdf, it seems the spider is only present on non-EDC 300 Tdi's, otherwise this funtion is controlled by an engine management ECU (quote below). But I know that my Defender is not an EDC - it has a perfectly normal stop solenoid with one wire only and no "EDC black box" on the pump. Hmm... I am not getting things to match...


Can they have placed the spider somewhere else on this German version? Like behind the dash? Under the cubby box?

It says something about EGR in the last paragraph below. Mine does have EGR, but I cannot see how this should in any way affect the starting of the car...


"
ENGINE IMMOBILISER (Optional)
When the alarm system is armed, the Passive Immobilisation function is enabled. Two types of immobilisation are used :-

1. Electronic Engine Immobiliser (Used on MFI-T16 and 300TDi with EDC engines)

This system is controlled by the Engine Management ECU and the Alarm ECU. When the vehicle is immobilised, the alarm ECU sends a signal to the EMS ECU which prevents starting, and until it receives a de-immobilise signal it will not start.

2. Remote Smart Spider (Used on MFI-T16 and 300TDi without EDC engines)

This system is controlled by the alarm ECU and the Engine immobilisation ECU (Spider). The alarm ECU sends a signal to the spider ECU to disable vehicle start, which then interrupts the starter circuit, fuel pump circuit and ignition coil (If fitted) or the fuel pump shut off solenoid in the case of the 300TDi engine (without EGR).
"

do you have a black box, about 3"-4" square in size under yer passenger seat in the battery box? It should have one multi core cable going in and should be secured by anti-tamper fixings.

ratty said:

do you have a black box, about 3"-4" square in size under yer passenger seat in the battery box? It should have one multi core cable going in and should be secured by anti-tamper fixings.

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No, there is none. That's the thing...

fredrikarnell said:

No, there is none. That's the thing...

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My 1997 300tdi defender didn't have one there and that didn't have edc either.

ratty said:

My 1997 300tdi defender didn't have one there and that didn't have edc either.

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Sounds comforting Did you ever find out where it was located? Or how the immobilisation works if there really is no spider?

fredrikarnell said:

Sounds comforting Did you ever find out where it was located? Or how the immobilisation works if there really is no spider?

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I didn't go looking for it as I had no need to.

It only takes a few minutes to bypass the immobiliser anyway.

ratty said:

I didn't go looking for it as I had no need to.

It only takes a few minutes to bypass the immobiliser anyway.

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I see your point. But since this is an expedition vehicle I need to be on top of this immobilisation stuff before anything goes wrong - as it will most certainly be in the wrong place.

Disabling it seems easy with the Disco bypass harness - but to do that I need to know where it is in the interest of not having to start looking when in the middle of nowhere with a failed spider...

fredrikarnell said:

I see your point. But since this is an expedition vehicle I need to be on top of this immobilisation stuff before anything goes wrong - as it will most certainly be in the wrong place.

Disabling it seems easy with the Disco bypass harness - but to do that I need to know where it is in the interest of not having to start looking when in the middle of nowhere with a failed spider...

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I'll send you a pm to tell you how to do it without locating the spider

Thanks a lot Ratty! Helpful information there!

I'm however still puzzled about the location...

Hi. I have the exact same problem on my '97 110 300TDI that came to Canada from Germany. Can't find that spider box in the LHS battery compartment. Had the dash cracked open - nothing next to the Lucas green unit. Where did you eventually find yours?

Hi, Sorry to resurrect a long dead thread but I've been trying to help a German visitor touring Australia with his Defender he brought with him from Germany. It's a 1997 300 Tdi, originally sold in Spain. He bought a second PLIP off ebay and we thought we could program it using my T4 (Testbook). However his Defender doesn't have a 10AS installed so the T4 couldn't talk to the immobiliser. His does, however, have the black box (mentioned by Ratty) under the LH seat in front of the battery.

ratty said:

do you have a black box, about 3"-4" square in size under yer passenger seat in the battery box? It should have one multi core cable going in and should be secured by anti-tamper fixings.

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We need to either disable the immobiliser or program his second PLIP. If he loses his working PLIP in Oz, he's in real trouble.

We'd appreciate any advice on how to proceed or even to know what sort of alarm/immobiliser it has fitted.

Cheers

Ron B.