hse 4.6 fuel consumption

Well, you have bought the sensors so there is nothing to lose by replacing them. Did tey say anything about the possibility of taking it round there so they can have a quick listen to it?
IF..it's the top end, and I'll reserve judgement on that one...it's not as expensive as major engine rebuilds or as strenuous.

£50 to test run and confirm and you were right he can talk. he can sell me a camshaft
set or kit for £200 or he offered £800 for the car so he can break and sell on ebay.

well i have had the car for 3 weeks and so far the bill stands at £2600.
what a sucker i have been.

Would you be happy spending £50 on a second opinion??
Did he mention the possibility of it being the camshaft, or did you

he mentioned that, i was going down the route of borrowing an air flow
sensor but he said the camshaft will be well worn if its done 134k and
theres the problem. he said lambda sensors are sending the messages
but the car is probably in limp mode and thats why i get 8mpg, and
in reality it is worse than that.
he also said the timing will be all wrong as well

hunterandthehunted said:

he mentioned that, i was going down the route of borrowing an air flow
sensor but he said the camshaft will be well worn if its done 134k and
theres the problem. he said lambda sensors are sending the messages
but the car is probably in limp mode and thats why i get 8mpg, and
in reality it is worse than that.
he also said the timing will be all wrong as well

Click to expand...

Oh dear, not sure I'd go along with all the Doom Talk just like that.......my Rangies done over 130K miles and is bound to have a "worn camshaft" - it drives fantastically still and I'm really chuffed with its performance, so I don't agree that that is necessarily the problem. Sounds like he wants to scare you into spending loads of unnecessary dosh on "repairs" which may not be necessary - an opinion may be worth the £50 but not sure if I'd want a biased opinion from someone who would be heavily advantaged by giving you the bad news that you need to pay him a fortune to fix your car......

mmm camshaft timing out i would not think so as irish said you got sensers i would put them on. i been where you are now and so have lots of others on here i payed £2500 for mine spent £1800 just getting it to where i am now. i would think it would hurt more if you sold it at that price try to keep going goodluck j

i just dont know what to do now. i probably will put the sensors on as a last
throw of the dice, but i dont hold out much hope.

hunterandthehunted said:

£50 to test run and confirm and you were right he can talk. he can sell me a camshaft
set or kit for £200 or he offered £800 for the car so he can break and sell on ebay.

well i have had the car for 3 weeks and so far the bill stands at £2600.
what a sucker i have been.

Click to expand...

that says the lot £800 to break? sell on with little work maybe? good luck whatever you decide

i will put the sensors on tomorrow and everything will be sorted.:der::der::der:

if not i will fill it up with petrol and drive the f,in thing off cromer cliffs...

dont forget to jump out befor it goes over j

won't it show uo on testbook if it was in limp mode and if the camshafts are
knackered, i am wondering if that jason bloke would have noticed. after all
he was landrover mechanic of the year in 2006?

he took it for a spin and said that all he could find up with it was slight front diff noise.
he said they all whine a bit after 80k

Test Book or any other diagnostics will not show up worn or damaged mechanical parts,
e.g. air springs, wheel bearings, piston rings, bearings, oil pumps, tyres etc. etc. as it is purely electronic and reliant on sensor, switch inputs and outputs.
Not all cars are as robust as others especially with a relatively high mileage and perhaps a dubious history. That said, and what has been posted on the forum, well maintained cars have had major problems..slipped liners is a classic example, on engines that have done fewer miles than yours. It's easy to say "Mine has done 190K and is perfect", that may be so, but as everyone knows that does not apply to others. My Disco V8 had less than 90K on the clock, full history and the camshaft had gone, noticed only when I came to change what I thought was noisy tappets.
Think about it..the lobes are worn, the valves do not open fully and for a shorter time therefore less volume of air/petrol mix gets into the cylinders. The lambdas sense that the exhaust gas is weak..it calls for more petrol.
I hope that the lambdas work. I know it's one thing after another and disheartening but for want of a valley gasket & seals it would be well worth a few hours work to pull the inlet manifold off and have a look at the state of the camshaft just for peace of mind. I am sure that RPI would show you what a new one looks like in order that you can get an idea of what you are looking for. A new camshaft and tappets including chain & sprockets is available for around £150 as a guide.
See how you go. If you need more info. PM me and I will give you a list of options regarding prices and shopping list.

hunterandthehunted said:

won't it show uo on testbook if it was in limp mode and if the camshafts are
knackered, i am wondering if that jason bloke would have noticed. after all
he was landrover mechanic of the year in 2006?

he took it for a spin and said that all he could find up with it was slight front diff noise.
he said they all whine a bit after 80k

Click to expand...

i know what you mean about the whine,there again it is the wife doing it.

Irishrover said:

Test Book or any other diagnostics will not show up worn or damaged mechanical parts,
e.g. air springs, wheel bearings, piston rings, bearings, oil pumps, tyres etc. etc. as it is purely electronic and reliant on sensor, switch inputs and outputs.
Not all cars are as robust as others especially with a relatively high mileage and perhaps a dubious history. That said, and what has been posted on the forum, well maintained cars have had major problems..slipped liners is a classic example, on engines that have done fewer miles than yours. It's easy to say "Mine has done 190K and is perfect", that may be so, but as everyone knows that does not apply to others. My Disco V8 had less than 90K on the clock, full history and the camshaft had gone, noticed only when I came to change what I thought was noisy tappets.
Think about it..the lobes are worn, the valves do not open fully and for a shorter time therefore less volume of air/petrol mix gets into the cylinders. The lambdas sense that the exhaust gas is weak..it calls for more petrol.
I hope that the lambdas work. I know it's one thing after another and disheartening but for want of a valley gasket & seals it would be well worth a few hours work to pull the inlet manifold off and have a look at the state of the camshaft just for peace of mind. I am sure that RPI would show you what a new one looks like in order that you can get an idea of what you are looking for. A new camshaft and tappets including chain & sprockets is available for around £150 as a guide.
See how you go. If you need more info. PM me and I will give you a list of options regarding prices and shopping list.

Click to expand...

and theres me thinking i would just take the rocker cover off. £150 for bits
but how much for labour?.

Cost of a jar of Swarfega if you do it yourself!!

Look at "Wrififer", newbie, admitted he didn't know much about v8's, over 270 posts in just over a week, fair play to him, stripped and rebuilt the top end!!

Reckon it would take a weekend without working up too much of a sweat

getting back to the sensors, if i disconnect the current ones, would there be a sign
if thet where working or not. i am thinking that if they are working i can get my dosh
back on the new ones i have purchased

Probably get the engine check light come on.

Irishrover said:

Cost of a jar of Swarfega if you do it yourself!!

Look at "Wrififer", newbie, admitted he didn't know much about v8's, over 270 posts in just over a week, fair play to him, stripped and rebuilt the top end!!

Reckon it would take a weekend without working up too much of a sweat

Click to expand...

isnt there specialist tools involved and then theres the timing and stuff.
what would i have to take to bits.

Irishrover said:

Probably get the engine check light come on.

Click to expand...

so if they are duff shoulnt the light be on now????
or is it just the electrical side that causes the light?

Diagnostics should show a faulty sensor..yes
Here is the info. for the Rovacom GEMS engine diagnostics programme relating to sensor inputs..in particular the Lambdas
Realtime live display of the information the electronic control unit of the selected vehicle system is currently deriving from its input sensors.


FUELLING
Loop status: This confirms the current status of the GEMS loop tuning system and tells if it is currently active and working correctly. Options are:
OPEN NOT YET SATISFIED CONDITIONS: The engine is not running or is still too cold to use the feedback from the sensors so when there is nothing wrong, the system is open loop.
CLOSED USING O2 SENSORS NORMALLY: Proper operation with no faults.
OPEN DUE TO DRIVING CONDITIONS: The system has been using the sensors and there are no problems, but it has decided not to use them at the moment as the feedback is not required for correction.
OPEN DUE TO A DETECTED FAULT: There is a fault with the sensor and the system has reverted to using the pure map without the aid of closed loop correction.
CLOSED BUT AN O2 SENSOR IS FAULTY: This can only happen in vehicles fitted with 2 sensors per bank (NAS). Although the system knows one of the sensors is faulty it can switch to using the other one to give closed loop fuel correction.
Pre cat Oxygen Sensor: This is the returning voltage value from the odd/even banks front (pre-catalyst) Oxygen sensor, which under normal operation (closed loop) should switch between very low values (near zero volts) when the mixture is too rich and very high values (near 5.0 volts) when the mixture is too weak. This switching may pause for brief periods, which is normal. Some markets (mainly Australia) had no sensors fitted and work entirely open loop.
Post cat Oxygen Sensor: This is the returning voltage value from the even banks rear (post-catalyst) Oxygen sensor, which under normal operation (closed loop) should switch between very low values (near zero volts) when the mixture is too rich and very high values (near 5.0 volts) when the mixture is too weak. This switching may pause for brief periods, which is normal. Sensors are only fitted after the catalyst in some countries like North America (NAS) and are used mainly for confirming the correct operation of the catalytic converter although this sensor can be used in the event of failure of the main pre-catalyst sensor.
Fuel trim long term: The percentage of alteration from the map value that the system is applying, to compensate for engine temperature, air temperature, fuel temperature, current engine load and other related conditions.
Fuel trim short term: The percentage of alteration from the map value that the system is applying, to momentarily compensate for feedback information, acceleration and other load conditions.