Help me fix up my freelander!

To answer your question on the IRD, if your VCU is seized it slowly winds up the whole drivetrain (as the front and read axles turn at different speeds) until the IRD gearbox dies.

If you jack it up and a wheel turns on its own that suggests the VCU is knacked.

james6546 said:

To answer your question on the IRD, if your VCU is seized it slowly winds up the whole drivetrain (as the front and read axles turn at different speeds) until the IRD gearbox dies.

If you jack it up and a wheel turns on its own that suggests the VCU is knacked.

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Cheers mate, been reading through the VCU thread and as far as i can tell the wheel is supposed to turn on its own as i try to spin it and that if it doesn't, that it's stiff and stays fixed position to the one on the floor then it's shot.

Or do you mean when i jack it up the wheel will spin round before i even touch it as the drivetrain unwinds?

EDIT: I tried reversing in circles on full lock, it is reluctant to go round with just the clutch (it's really on the verge of stalling) and requires 1500-2000rpm to get it going round. It sort of groans as it goes round in circles too.

Hi Kris,

Squabbling aside. I, personally would not spend the money on it. The dropped liner could be/is a warning for a long term expensive disaster at the age when you may not have a lot of money.

The rest is just niggly stuff, but the motor has to be half decent.

I have owned x3 1.8's, so can speak with some experience. I love the old k-series engines. But there is a point when they can become uneconomically viable.

Apologies to all, i have not introduced myself either.

krisboats said:

Cheers mate, been reading through the VCU thread and as far as i can tell the wheel is supposed to turn on its own as i try to spin it and that if it doesn't, that it's stiff and stays fixed position to the one on the floor then it's shot.

Or do you mean when i jack it up the wheel will spin round before i even touch it as the drivetrain unwinds?

EDIT: I tried reversing in circles on full lock, it is reluctant to go round with just the clutch (it's really on the verge of stalling) and requires 1500-2000rpm to get it going round. It sort of groans as it goes round in circles too.

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Sounds like the VCU to me then.

Yeah, it would spin slightly before you even touch it.

And yeah, there will be some resistance, but it shouldn't be very stiff to turn if it is jacked up

Jack up the wheel and see what happens, mine could be turned about a quarter turn and sprang back so the prop shaft came off the day I bought it. If you can't turn the wheel then get the prop shaft off immediately. Don't wait. Don't drive it. Spend a couple of hours under the car and save yourself a ton of money and hassle. You can drive it 2WD until you gather up the readies to replace the VCU.

Got the hole in the exhaust welded up. Only a quick job so the welding isnt too neat but it'll do the job for now.

Fitted new window regulator and runners on the drivers window so that opens and closes again now. Can go through a maccys drive thru again haha

Lifted the rear wheel with the handbrake off, wheel stayed completely still as it lifted and although i didnt have a full bar and weights to time the movement from 45degrees to flat, i was able to slowly rotate the wheel with my own body weight and a 32mm socket/ratchet wrench. The wheel stayed still when i stopped applying pressure to it as well. So... the vcu is okay... ?

krisboats said:

Got the hole in the exhaust welded up. Only a quick job so the welding isnt too neat but it'll do the job for now.

Fitted new window regulator and runners on the drivers window so that opens and closes again now. Can go through a maccys drive thru again haha

Lifted the rear wheel with the handbrake off, wheel stayed completely still as it lifted and although i didnt have a full bar and weights to time the movement from 45degrees to flat, i was able to slowly rotate the wheel with my own body weight and a 32mm socket/ratchet wrench. The wheel stayed still when i stopped applying pressure to it as well. So... the vcu is okay... ?

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time it with the correct length bar and weight and post back again

I thought this statement may be of some use.....

It is a common fallacy that VCUs seize. In all our years of experience we have never come across a seized VCU. What actually happens is the silicon viscous fluid gets thicker and thicker with wear and slowly causes the viscous coupling to become stiffer and stiffer to rotate. More and more strain is therefore put on the gear train and failure eventually occurs to the IRD and rear diff.

It has been reported on some internet sites that to test the VCU if you jack the one back wheel of your Freelander without the handbrake applied you should be able to turn the rear wheel and that if you cannot turn the wheel your VCU has seized -THIS IS TOTAL RUBBISH! You would hardly be able to do this by hand as you would need a 2 foot breaker bar and stand on it, the wheel will move very slowly - this still does not indicate whether the VCU is any good or not as all wheels will turn regardless of the condition of the VCU.

Quote: "Bell Engineering" (they actually know a thing or two). I do not work for them.

Has anyone established the year of the car?.

Does this car have a revised IRD gear ratio?.

What is the mileage of this car?.

Does this car have abnormal (ie feathered/castellated) rear tyre wear?.

Are the tyres mismatched?.

What is the colour of the IRD oil?.

These, IMO, are pertinent questions.

Longbolt - read the above in context - how do bell test VCUs - by using the weight on a bar - the same method - just with the VCU on the bench, not in the car! how many car owners are going to remove the VCU on a regular basis to bench test it. Testing on the car is the ONLY realistic method.

a stiffening VCU is what the owner is looking for - hence regular comparative tests.

the can also fail with no drie - hence the term "Mondo mode"

Yes - Bell do know a think or two - they do bloody good refurbs - but remember - they want to sell you something. the guys on here have no axe to grind.

At the end of the day - its your choice and your money - ignore it at your peril.

'...this still does not indicate whether the VCU is any good or not as all wheels will turn regardless of the condition of the VCU.'

Not true. With the car in gear, the only way the raised rear wheel can turn is if the VCU slips.

The Mad Hat Man said:

Longbolt - read the above in context - how do bell test VCUs - by using the weight on a bar - the same method - just with the VCU on the bench, not in the car! how many car owners are going to remove the VCU on a regular basis to bench test it. Testing on the car is the ONLY realistic method.

a stiffening VCU is what the owner is looking for - hence regular comparative tests.

the can also fail with no drie - hence the term "Mondo mode"

Yes - Bell do know a think or two - they do bloody good refurbs - but remember - they want to sell you something. the guys on here have no axe to grind.

At the end of the day - its your choice and your money - ignore it at your peril.

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Ok, point taken about Bell, i personally dont use them. But what about the other questions?..Service "Mystery", age etc?.

Is it possible that certain age vehicles without a revised IRD ratio would perform differently from later models (hence the revision)?. Land Rover service bulletins describe difficult parking and transmission wind up as "Normal" in early models. I have seen them..

My point is this.

Get it checked by a professional. It costs money, but thats the price you pay if you want things right. £10 for doing the job, and £100 for knowing how.

guineafowl21 said:

'...this still does not indicate whether the VCU is any good or not as all wheels will turn regardless of the condition of the VCU.'

Not true. With the car in gear, the only way the raised rear wheel can turn is if the VCU slips.

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The VCU will slip, as already stated...they rarely seize, just "Stiffen up". I agree with the Hatter (and not just because i am supposed to be a mere underling junior member..on this forum), there is some apparent credence in the bar test.

But there are many variables to the VCU equation in just everyday ways the car reacts in normal driving situations, especially regarding age/mileage/outside temperature etc etc. These make the difference in saying "This VCU is stuffed", or, "no, it has a few miles left in it".

My penniworth - your FL appears to be for short term ownership then move onto something else. You should have an idea on what you can afford to spend. A crook motor with a dropped liner is a biggie. If you plan to keep it then the £££ outlaid could be worth it. But unlikely to be worth it for a short term ownership. You can shim low liners to bring them back to spec.

A faulty transmission system, of which the VCU is an important part, is also another critical aspect. You could make it just FWD - an easy and inexpensive mod. If you leave it with a faulty VCU it will get expensive.

Related to transmission/VCU is tyres - are the all the same brand, size and type?

For me a tidy vehicle is a must, no body rot, accident damage and a clean tidy interior = a keeper. Mechanical stuff is fairly easy to fix but does need ££.

Did the w'shop say the liner was low / er or below the block face?

Oh and welcome to LZ!

The Mad Hat Man said:

time it with the correct length bar and weight and post back again

Click to expand...

I've read through 40 pages of the thread. Am i right in thinking i need to do 1.2meters with 5kg over 45 degrees?

I'm none the wiser to what an acceptable result is though and i'm not sure how the test itself could be remotely reliable. Wouldn't bearings and diffs also play a part in the results?

Only way i could realistically see it being reliable is to whip the VCU off and put it in a vice....

Longbolt said:

I thought this statement may be of some use.....

It is a common fallacy that VCUs seize. In all our years of experience we have never come across a seized VCU. What actually happens is the silicon viscous fluid gets thicker and thicker with wear and slowly causes the viscous coupling to become stiffer and stiffer to rotate. More and more strain is therefore put on the gear train and failure eventually occurs to the IRD and rear diff.

It has been reported on some internet sites that to test the VCU if you jack the one back wheel of your Freelander without the handbrake applied you should be able to turn the rear wheel and that if you cannot turn the wheel your VCU has seized -THIS IS TOTAL RUBBISH! You would hardly be able to do this by hand as you would need a 2 foot breaker bar and stand on it, the wheel will move very slowly - this still does not indicate whether the VCU is any good or not as all wheels will turn regardless of the condition of the VCU.

Quote: "Bell Engineering" (they actually know a thing or two). I do not work for them.

Has anyone established the year of the car?.

1998

Does this car have a revised IRD gear ratio?.

No idea

What is the mileage of this car?.

168,000'ish

Does this car have abnormal (ie feathered/castellated) rear tyre wear?.

No idea, 4 week old tyres fitted. Previous tyres seem fine though

Are the tyres mismatched?.

Bfg all terrains front and rear in same size with same tread depth. Previously pirelli scorpions in smaller size with new tyres rear and almost fully worn on the front

What is the colour of the IRD oil?.

Not checked

These, IMO, are pertinent questions.

Click to expand...

Answered those questions in bold. My dad doesn't remember having the VCU changed before, though the VCU bearings he remembers being done.

The Mad Hat Man said:

time it with the correct length bar and weight and post back again

Click to expand...

I'm having a hard time with this thread.

Here are two stroppy noobs just struttin' around LandyZone, the unabashed scourge of all Land Rover forums, like it was comfortable or something. Come on people. We've defiantly have dropped the ball.

htr said:

My penniworth - your FL appears to be for short term ownership then move onto something else. You should have an idea on what you can afford to spend. A crook motor with a dropped liner is a biggie. If you plan to keep it then the £££ outlaid could be worth it. But unlikely to be worth it for a short term ownership. You can shim low liners to bring them back to spec.

A faulty transmission system, of which the VCU is an important part, is also another critical aspect. You could make it just FWD - an easy and inexpensive mod. If you leave it with a faulty VCU it will get expensive.

Related to transmission/VCU is tyres - are the all the same brand, size and type?

For me a tidy vehicle is a must, no body rot, accident damage and a clean tidy interior = a keeper. Mechanical stuff is fairly easy to fix but does need ££.

Did the w'shop say the liner was low / er or below the block face?

Oh and welcome to LZ!

Click to expand...

The guys at IAWA last week said the cylinder had slight scoring damage, and may have dropped a bit. They didn't say how much or whether it was now below flush with the head so i can't say either way. They said the gasket could last for ages or it could last 20 minutes from the garage the day i took it away. I guess if they've driven it round themselves they'd most likely have spotted a faulty reverse on the car, but then if they weren't specifically looking for it they may not have noticed. that's why i'm asking all you knowledgeable chaps on here.

Cheers dude, see thats the thing. It's my first car (at 27 ) and i've been driving it for around 5-6 months now. I'm not even sure if there is a problem reversing or not, i'm just describing what i reckon and people have said the VCU sounds like it's a pooper. I've never had a go at reversing another freelander to see if my reverse is actually normal or not.

The inside of the car is pretty tidy, bodywork has barely any rust at all and no dents on the panels. Never been in an accident and has had 2 owners since new from what i can tell, one being my dad. 168000 miles, full engine replacement last year with a rover test bed engine (under 40,000 on the clock supposedly) Service history was okay at first, but my dad was terrible for it and never filled the service book in Window seals are a bit old and i has a few faults as i listed to begin with, but i'm used to coming from a biking background. If parts made noises i had to find out what because hurtling off drops and through trees with a possible fault could end in serious injury. Maybe i'm being overly cautious with the thing.

West Slope Rover said:

I'm having a hard time with this thread.

Here are two stroppy noobs just struttin' around LandyZone, the unabashed scourge of all Land Rover forums, like it was comfortable or something. Come on people. We've defiantly have dropped the ball.

Click to expand...

Oh shush you

op2:

krisboats said:

Oh shush you

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Going on your info Kris, the early ones were barstools to turn sharply (i drove some of the first ones out of the showroom), so in my opinion, as the tyres were not "weirdly worn" recently, i would say the VCU is getting on, but not totally stuffed just yet. It was only after 2001 is they revised the IRD ratio's, and that made them easier to turn and more tolerant to different tyre sizes, but STILL had drag present. I drove them out of the showrooms as well.

Your Hippo sounds quite clean and tidy, and it also sounds like you love it (so your doomed Mr Mannering). I wouldn't worry about the head gasket, it has after all lasted this far. If it goes again shim it as HTR says, and use a PAYEN gasket and MG/LR/Payen stretch bolts, and not some crap off E-bay. A PRT thermostat conversion would also help (not Britparts prt kit).

Love is blind, but don't expect a hell of a lot when you trade it in....if you ever do. So, from one stroppy noob (20 years working with Land Rover here) to another. Have fun.

Longbolt said:

Going on your info Kris, the early ones were barstools to turn sharply (i drove some of the first ones out of the showroom), so in my opinion, as the tyres were not "weirdly worn" recently, i would say the VCU is getting on, but not totally stuffed just yet. It was only after 2001 is they revised the IRD ratio's, and that made them easier to turn and more tolerant to different tyre sizes, but STILL had drag present. I drove them out of the showrooms as well.

Your Hippo sounds quite clean and tidy, and it also sounds like you love it (so your doomed Mr Mannering). I wouldn't worry about the head gasket, it has after all lasted this far. If it goes again shim it as HTR says, and use a PAYEN gasket and MG/LR/Payen stretch bolts, and not some crap off E-bay. A PRT thermostat conversion would also help (not Britparts prt kit).

Love is blind, but don't expect a hell of a lot when you trade it in....if you ever do. So, from one stroppy noob (20 years working with Land Rover here) to another. Have fun.

Click to expand...

That's nothing. I spent 20 years working on mine the other day.