gR@HaM's gearbox thread

[Skyblue]

Nice one!raise:

 

[gR@HaM]

Cheers
Have had to take all photos and do the write up using me iPhone as camera has bust - so been somewhat limited!

 

[[JP]]

Fokin well done man!!!!

Im gonna need a new box on my 90 and after reading your thread, I think im gonna do it on my drive!!!! get the box and do it myself! doesnt look that difficult!

 

[gR@HaM]

Well done Graham, you're doing really well.

Just a couple of quick notes for your considoration:

1. This is a good opportunity to check the condition of the Torque Converter flex plate for cracks/damage and wear;

2. On the Ashcrofts site they state that the biggest single reason why their recon boxes fail is due to a bad instalation particularly relating to the oil pump.

The very best of luck to you, I'll be watching you progress eagerly.

Dave

Ps I may have to do this on my TD5 at some stage in the future as I think the flex plate is no longer perfect

Thanks Dave, think I need to remove the torque convertor to get the the crank seal - if I can work out how to get the damn rounded bolt off which is holding it to the drive plate. If I get it off can have a good look for any cracks/damage.

Regarding the oil pump, if I buy a second hand unit Im not intending on opening it up - only to change the filter, o-rings and sump seal.
I have a sneaky feeling that the reason why the box broke in the first place was due to me not putting the auto control unit back together properly when changing the kickdown cable

 

[davek0974]

if I can work out how to get the damn rounded bolt off which is holding it to the drive plate.

Without scanning back through the great thread, is it accessible???

If so you could MIG weld a bigger bolt to the chewed head, the heat will lilkely loosen it as well.

Just a thought.

 

[gR@HaM]

Welding a nut on has gotten me out of trouble before with the swivel bolts, unfortunately I don't think it'll work in this case as can only just fit a 1/2 inch / 13mm socket in the starter motor aperture.
Also I've given the MIG back to the guy I borrowed it off.. for over 18months so don't think I could ask for it again!!

 

[Mr Noisy]

Try bonking a socket onto it, like a 12mm or 1/2", with an extension.

You can get tasty little locking wheel nut/rounded bolt head removers, which are basically sockets with blades inside that cut into the offender, allowing it to be undone. Sometimes

 

[gR@HaM]

So, got the torque convertor off by first removing the flywheel:

Its held on by 8 x 7/8 (22mm) bolts which are pretty tight.
I soon realised that you can't prevent the engine from turning by locking the crank on front chassis rail - as that just undoes the crank nut!
Instead you need to lock the flywheel, did this by inserting 2 long bolts and using them to lock it against the o/side chassis rail with a big bar:

TC removed:

..and the offending nut:

..you can get tasty little locking wheel nut/rounded bolt head removers, which are basically sockets with blades inside that cut into the offender, allowing it to be undone. Sometimes

Yep, and they worked again - worth their weight in gold!!

Although was having no luck with the 13mm gripper whilst the TC was in situ, it did the job in conjunction with 'the persuader' (big hammer):

I'll be looking for a replacement torque convertor along with the gearbox as don't trust bending it back into shape.
Will also need a couple of new bolts for the TC and drive plate, I imagine it's crucial that the replacements are OE as don't want to mess up the flywheels balancing??

Plan for tomorrow is remove the rear crank seal and start ordering parts..

 

[battenberg]

Irwin bolt grips are the NUTS!... every landy owner should have them in their weapons arsenal, next to the big F***Off stilson, the hammer, the bigger hammer and the bigger hammer wiv a longer handle...

 

[gR@HaM]

It's been a while..
On Tuesday the gearbox arrived at work, and by shear luck I also found an engine crane gathering dust. Actually, it's the biggest hoist I've ever seen - could only just fit it in the back of a sprinter!

Old and new:

Checking it for size:

So last night I made a bit of progress.
The replacement box isn't fly-by-wire, although the bellhousing still has the hole for EDC sensor I just needed to knock the plug out..

..clean it all up

..and bung the sensor in

Moving to the drive plate and flywheel, the only difference between the 2 versions is the EDC one has (what looks to be) an additional plate with 4magnets - which I guess works the sensor on top of the bellhousing:

The bolts which fix this ring down have larger heads than on the older drive plate, but I managed to snap one in the flywheel and another was damaged whilst trying to chop off the torque convertor:

So I cleaned both flywheels up, picked the best bits and bolted them together:

Looking at the back of the flywheel, Im guessing this is where the timing pin is inserted through the side of bellhousing for cambelts etc:

Next, I cleaned up the torque convertor - no signs of cracking or bad corrosion:

Then put it back on the gearbox:

And then moved to changing the gearbox oil filter. 4 x 10mm bolts hold the sump down:

but the n/side rear mount needs removing in order to get at one of the bolts (same as when in-situ):

Once the sump is off there are 3 torx headed bolts which hold the filter on:

Cleaned up ready for new filter and seals:

That's it for yesterday, I have a rear crank seal on order from Craddocks if this arrives by this evening shall get that on ready to start shifting the box.

Some questions:
Does the torque convertor need filling up with oil before putting back on the shaft within bellhousing?

Does the flywheel need to be aligned against the crank? it's now a mongrel of 2 different ones so I don't have re-assembly marks to work with, not sure whether it will effect timing or the EDC sensor??

Thanks

 

[nathan5346]

Cant help with the q's graham but im amazed at what uv achieved so far... good luck m8 hope it all goes well.

 

[Mr Noisy]

yo G

good work man!

sorry i cant help either not being an auto man.

however

i take it those are 75mm arches? i have 50s, not sure what i prefer...

also, do you have any recurring issues related to the 10" wheels?

i have to reset my wheels bearings every couple of off road days (i dont do any other mileage in the car) which i can handle, but the other week a swivel ball snapped off when i was offroading, i'm just hoping it was a dodgy part (i had replaced them a few months before) and not something which is gonna happe again.

obviously there are not many people running 10" wheels, just wondering what your thought are?

cheers!

 

[gR@HaM]

Cant help with the q's graham but im amazed at what uv achieved so far... good luck m8 hope it all goes well.

cheers mate, kinda daunting but seem to be getting somewhere now

yo G

good work man!

sorry i cant help either not being an auto man.

however

i take it those are 75mm arches? i have 50s, not sure what i prefer...

also, do you have any recurring issues related to the 10" wheels?

i have to reset my wheels bearings every couple of off road days (i dont do any other mileage in the car) which i can handle, but the other week a swivel ball snapped off when i was offroading, i'm just hoping it was a dodgy part (i had replaced them a few months before) and not something which is gonna happe again.

obviously there are not many people running 10" wheels, just wondering what your thought are?

cheers!

alright geez, yep they be 3" flexi arches
I'm happy at the moment with the wheel setup (31x12.5 on 15x10 rims) didn't need to do any further cutting other than what was needed to get the arches on. Although to be honest Ive probably only done 100 miles during 12months ownership due to the amount if stuff Ive had to do to get it on the road. Classic scenario, bought the motor cheap with a blown HG and knew nothing of landys - oh how naive!!

 

[Mr Noisy]

100 miles??

kin ell, guess it'll be a relief when you finally get it back together and then you can get some playtime off road sorted!

anyway, in which case yeah, sound like a nice setup on there you will have good clearance and good flotation - just watch out cos you'll prtobably need to regularly reset the bearings.

i do all 4 in about 15 minutes now!

cheers!

 

[gR@HaM]

This evening I managed to sort the rear crank seal.
5 x M8 bolts hold it on, it can then be removed by hand.
New vs old, the new'n is apparently OE - came from craddocks with an 'AllMakes4x4' sticker on it. This is flush on the back and doesn't have a rubber seal which the old one had:

gaskets are different n'all:

I followed the haynes method - with use of a grinder lopped the heads off 3 x M8 long bolts then cut a slot along the top to allow a screwdriver to undo them:

Then cleaned up the rear face, attached the bolts and slid on the gasket:

the seal should come with a plastic guide which slides off during installation:

That's it so far, slowly catch the monkey


Have worked out that the timing and EDC sensor shouldn't be effected as there are a series of dowels and holes on the drive plate, flywheel and crank plate which only allow everything to fit together in one way - so hopefully I can't get it wrong!
Here's the one on the drive plate:

Would still like to know whether to fill the torque convertor with oil before bolting it to the flywheel..

 

[GRATCH]

Does the flywheel need to be aligned against the crank? it's now a mongrel of 2 different ones so I don't have re-assembly marks to work with, not sure whether it will effect timing or the EDC sensor??

Thanks

The small hole at the 8o'clockish position slightly inboard of the crank bolt holes should locate on a dowel on the crank.

 

[gR@HaM]

Managed to squeeze in an hr this morning, cleaned the surface rust off the filter sent by Craddocks (don't ask, NOT impressed!) and stuck it on:

Torqued up the flywheel bolts and used threadlock, am now ready to start putting everything back together


Have had a loong day round my mates working on the alfa. With a serious amount of help it now has a new clutch and limited slip diff. Tomorrow we will mostly be putting it back together again..
*

 

[gR@HaM]

Spent the weekend getting the replacement box on and putting it all back together.
After dragging the gearbox under the disco on a pallet and lining it up, I tied it to the hoist on 2 ropes one front one back. This allowed it to be tilted front and back in order to get everything in place.

I was advised that it's vital for the torque convertor to be fitted correctly to the spline on gearbox, which goes on effectly in 3steps. Once it's on right you can measure the gap as follows:

According to the serial number on mine the gap should be 18mm

Taken from here:
Land Rover Owner • View topic - ZF4HP22 Auto Box Re-Fitting

A couple of points, incase someone can save time from my mistakes

- Make sure the locating spacers are in place on the flywheel before fitting AND there's only one on either side.
After bolting it to the engine I realised that the n/side had two spacers (one attached to engine from the old box and one from the replacement box) which prevented the gearbox from meeting up flush with the engine.

After refitting the hoist, pulling the box away from the engine and removing one of the spacers I had to do it all over again on the other side!!!

-You need to drop/tilt the rear of the box to get access to the 2 longer bolt holes on the top of bellhousing, these bolts hold brackets for the wiring loom n'all.
It also helps to tilt when refitting the top oil cooler pipe.

Once attached to the engine I fitted the xmember and brackets to the box, lifted it up with the hoist and then fitted the xmember to the motor.

Next step was bolting the torque convertor to the drive plate, there are 4 bolts which need thread locking and fitting to 39Nm (if I remember). Take care not to drop the bolts inside the flywheel casing or it's box off again! The drive plate needs to be turned on the crank to find each if the holes, then reach your hand through starter motor aperture to turn the torque convertor in order to line up with the threaded holes.
Had to remove the pipe between airbox and maf to get the torque wrench in:

The rest was fairly straight forwards, just a case of putting everthing back where it belongs (gearbox wiring, gear selector cable, kick down cable, oil cooler pipes, front exhaust, props, ARB, starter motor, turbo hoses, rad hoses, center console etc etc). The replacement handbrake which came with the box needed slackening off, just a 17mm socket on rear of the drum.

The rivets which were drilled out of the selector/gaitor plate I refitted with cable ties:

Glued the broken cig lighter bracket whilst it was off:

and a long hex socket helps to get the nut back on the gear selector mechanism:

.

Finally I filled her up with Dextron2..

(along with GL4 in the transfer box)

SO... the question is does it work??????
It's still on axle stands, BUT it ran through fine in all gears (now including reverse!!). Tomorrow I shall build up the courage to take it out for a spin.
My only corncern at the moment is gear oil level - I ran through from park to 1 and back, stuck it in N but the dipstick was showing it to be over full.
Can't really understand that as Ive only put 8L in so far and Ive read somewhere that it takes 9.5??
Anyhoo shall recheck tomorrow..

 

[smarty1972]

Got everything crossed for ya mate, hope after all your hard work it pays off and you finally get to use the disco.

 

[gR@HaM]

Got everything crossed for ya mate, hope after all your hard work it pays off and you finally get to use the disco.

Cheers mate