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Freelander 2 (LR2) Freelander 2 diesel starting on 3 cylinders, now running properly, after cylinder head change.

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Nodge68, Jul 15, 2020.

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  1. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully I'll be able to crack on with returning the favour, once I've got it running properly.
     
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  2. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, that I've no idea of the quality of the workmanship so far, although as I found a nut in the combustion chamber, that doesn't bode well for previous workmanship. :(

    I'll see what the issue is tomorrow, but I'm hoping it could just be a combination of an unknown fault when cold, and leaking injector seals. I can put up with the lumpy idle when cold, but a misfire when driving will do damage to the flywheel and transmission.
     
  3. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Well she's driving!!, although not perfect, but driveable. :)

    It still starts a bit lumpy, but better than it was. I don't know what the issue is with No3 cylinder not contributing when it's cold, but after a few minutes it runs smoothly at idle, and picks up better too.

    It's still hunting and spluttering about between 1500 and 2500 RPM under 50% load, once over 2500 she improves although it still misses, so I definitely think one of the injectors is a bit off kilter. :(

    I'll order some more injector washers, and swap them over in sequence now I know I've working spare.
    For the time being, I'm going to give it a double dose of Diesel Magic, and use it.

    I can order the new brakes and get the transmission fluids changed, now I know I've nearly got it sorted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  4. Andy Warren

    Andy Warren Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hi, are the copper washers & o-rings the same as the FL1 td4's? If so I have a set of genuine ones, still in their sealed bags I got last month when I wanted to remove my valve cover for cleaning but couldn't get the injectors out. Let me know & I'll post them tomorrow.
     
  5. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately not. The copper seal is completely different, and it doesn't have the O ring at all.
    I'm ordering some brake rotors and pads from AF this week, so I'll add another set of copper injector washers at the same time, but thanks for the offer. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  6. SWalker

    SWalker Active Member

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    good to hear its getting there, job well done and documented. would it be worth taking the common rail off for a good clean out?
    I never even thought of the fuel itself, should have really as over here there are lots of dodgy places that supply red with the red taken out...
    I did run Topaz as it is AA aproved but then ran into our own fuel issue - although i think the damage was done by the previous owner, I now run BP ultimate - it seems to give the extra MPG to pay for itself, or there abouts..
    We don't have morrisons here but i hear their fuel has a certain amount of bio in it and some modern diesels ( new transit vans) wont make it off the forecourt... so the story goes, seems a wee bit tall for me.
    I used to run a VW afn engine, 90s old school and it could run on chip pan oil...
     
  7. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know of any common rail diesels that are happy with bio-diesel. It's suitable for the fine nozzles I don't believe.
    I use fuel from reputable sources, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope.
     
  8. freespaña

    freespaña Active Member

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    Hi. I hope to help something.
    I remember that I had litle problems in injector in low charge. Cleaned by ultrasounds works fine for a time but the problem backs. The injectors remanufactured no professional could been mecanized damagin the thermal layer shortering its lifetime.
    I found a dealer who sells new injectors nozzles (set nozzle and needle) for very reasonable price. Is very easy change this injector part only be very careful with small internal parts.
    Changed 4 my car runs like first day.
    If you had had damage in the combustion chamber there may be damaged same of these so sensitive parts.
    Its only an idea to try to help maybe crazy...
     
  9. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    There's some logic there. I'm going to swap each injector in turn, until I find the faulty one. ;)
     
  10. Rank Amatuer

    Rank Amatuer Well-Known Member

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    @Nodge68 Do you have a decent multimeter that can measure max & min volts? Rather just read the voltage it will alloy you to see the operating voltage range of the injectors. Try that at different rpm and it might be a pointer to the duff one.
     
  11. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I've driven it a few times now, and I'm thinking injector issues, but with my current equipment, I've no idea which one. No3 definitely isn't contributing when cold, but after a couple of minutes it runs smoothly on all 4.
    Under load at more than 2000 RPM it misfires, in a rather random way, almost like a crank sensor issue. I still think it's injector related, I just need to pin down which one it is.

    It seems perfectly driveable while the revs are kept under 2k, so I'll drive it for a bit, and see if it improves.

    I need to get the piston bedded in, which may well improve things, but time and miles will tell.
    I was wanting to fix the PDC system and change the oil in the PTU (the FL2 IRD), but completely failed on both counts,:( so I went and did something not car related for the rest of today. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  12. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I drove it to work this morning. It drives well below 2000 RPM, which is strange.
    I put a bottle of Diesel Magic in the tank, along with £25 of fresh fuel, so I'll see if that improves the running at higher RPM.

    But at least it's useable now. :)
     
  13. freespaña

    freespaña Active Member

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    Hi Nodge.
    It seems that you discart change nozzles.
    I try to give you more ideas:
    1) The injector needs 12v to work perfectly. If the voltage drops from 9v +/- the injector could run erratic. Always with injectors in perfect state. If has a damaged or faults could fail in other parameters.
    2) One test very quick and easy to do if you can do in your car is measure the return connecting the excess injectors to tanks.
    The injector that fails will have a different return flow than the rest. You can do it idling or accelerating.

    Good Luck!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I've not disregarded you information, it just isn't possible.
    The nozzles on these injectors can't be changed, as they are manufactured at tested to extremely high precision. Once components are changed, the manufacturing calibration is lost, meaning the injector will no longer be programmable to the ECU, unless it's tested on very expensive machinery.

    These injectors are operated by Piezoelectric elements, and work at a high voltage of around 130 Volts at 8 Amps, so are not easy to test.

    These injectors can't be tested by a spill test, as they are designed to work with a spill line pressure of 10 Bar, or around 150 PSI.
    This makes them impossible to test in this way.

    Thanks for you input though.
     
  15. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    I thought I needed to bring this thread up to date.

    Basically the engine still starts cold on 3 cylinders, and it's definitely No3 which isn't firing when cold. After the engine has been running for 5 or so minutes, it suddenly starts to run on all 4, so there's something amiss, and I believe this fault was the reason for all the work and damage, before I bought it. I can hear a chuffing sound from the exhaust when it's running on 3, so I'm thinking that maybe there's an exhaust valve issue, which resolves itself as the valve heats up, but this is just a guess, based on this chuffing sound.

    For now I'm happy to live with this, as it's actually not as inconvenient as it would seem. It only runs on 3 at idle, and starts running on all 4, if the vehicle is driven.

    The heavy regular misfire under load was due to No2 leaking around the copper sealing washer, which stopped when it was replaced. However I'm still getting a more random misfiring under load above 2500 RPM, (or was before the rear diff grenaded itself):eek:, but I'm thinking this could well be down to bad copper seals or crud on the seal faces. I've got an injector seat cleaner, so will be cleaning the seats properly, and installing all new copper washers.

    I'm hoping this will cure the misfire, or at least give me a good chance to eliminate the seals as the cause.

    This weekend I plan on getting the rear diff out, and hopefully be able to repair it. More on that on the relevant thread. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  16. rob_bell

    rob_bell Well-Known Member

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    This is turning into quite a project Nodge!
     
  17. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed. Its good that it cost me so little to buy, or I'd be mighty peed off. However I'll still have a nice looking FL2 for about 1/2 price, so it's not all bad.
     
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  18. LUKBENPHI

    LUKBENPHI Well-Known Member

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    On the more random misfire some thing that has popped into my nogin was the old sticky valve syndrome you used to get on the old zetec engines, where although the valve goes up and down it doesn't rotate in the seat as normal due to the incorrect oil viscosity which caused them to stick open causing a misfire as it gets hot on one side, i cant remember if he fl2 is bucket and shim or hydralic tappets but a dodgy shim or bucket could be the cause of the issues
     
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  19. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I was only reading the other day that this is also a vag thing on their petrol engines due to them being direct injection, so there is nothing to lube the valves from the intake side, the symptons seem to be poor starting and a misfire until warm.
     
  20. LUKBENPHI

    LUKBENPHI Well-Known Member

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    Never knew that thought it was just a ford thing
     
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