EWP Wars Episode 3: Attack of the Airlocks

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WLJayne

WLJayne

Well-Known Member
Posts
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Location
Derpyshurr
Hey guys,

Well today fitted the booster pump to by heater inlet hose, just before the IRD cooler junction. This is in an attempt to rectify the miserable performance of my heater now that the EWP has been installed and is working. Because there is far less back pressure in the main loop now that there is no thermostat, there isn't much coolant going around the matrix I think and that's why it's tepid at best. In the end I opted to splice the two pumps onto the controller feed so that they work in tandem.

Bugger me though it makes the system a **** to bleed!! We spent ages getting serious air out of the system and even now there's still tons left. The sub zero weather makes it hard as at idle it doesn't get up to temperature and pressure. I'll try again on the weekend when its supposed to be 6 degrees out.

But, even with the evident air problem when the EBP bites into some coolant the heater gets nice and toasty. Not hot, but warm. I could always raise the target temperature to 90 degrees on the controller and see if that affects the hot air temp.

So another hiccup in the EWP drama but I'm getting there :).

Will.
 
I'm dissapointed guys, where's your sense of adventure? No progress ever came from playing it safe and not trying something new :). The other plan is to introduce some back pressure into the main loop by adding a flow restrictor to emulate the thermostat. But I'll only do that if this doesn't work. I only bought the EBP because Davies Craig sold me one at a ridicuous discount for helping them field test all this, I've been feeding back to them at every stage and they've been really grateful.

Besides you guys aren't planning on dropping a K series turbo engine in yours ;), mines going to need better cooling when I do that.
 
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WLJayne said:
I'm dissapointed guys, where's your sense of adventure? No progress ever came from playing it safe and not trying something new :). The other plan is to introduce some back pressure into the main loop by adding a flow restrictor to emulate the thermostat. But I'll only do that if this doesn't work. I only bought the EBP because Davies Craig sold me one at a ridicuous discount for helping them field test all this, I've been feeding back to them at every stage and they've been really grateful.

Besides you guys aren't planning on dropping a K series turbo engine in yours ;), mines going to need better cooling when I do that.
Click to expand...

Glad you are getting there ;)
I like the idea of the ewp having used them a couple of times in the past. They really do help control engine temp especially at warm up and shutdown.
Once bled of a majority of it's air the system should finish bleeding itself as the pumps run. Can you run the pumps cold to pump the remaining air out?
Good work so far!!
 
How about running the ebp separately, so that the coolant can be pumped without the engine running? The problem for bleeding is, as I understand it, around the matrix pipe area, not the main system, so it might be beneficial to run that pump to clear air locks before the EWP cuts in?
Then run a feed from the heater fan, as you originally intended?
 
Hi guys,

We can jump both pumps whenever we like using crop clips etc, even when the engine isn't running. We ran them both at full whack quite a bit when the engine was off and I think what's happening is that the air simply can't rise past the pump as the pump can't pump it! So I'm thinking it might work if we injected coolant through the bleed point on the heater hose and see what happens. That might force air out of the bleed while filling up the cavities below.

I must point out that the heater DID work with just the EWP, and the air was warm - I just did't find it warm enough. But then is there such a thing as warm enough in -5 degree outisde temps? Plus the air is pretty much cold until the engine is at running temp and the pump goes to continuous run mode at variable voltage, then you get a big dump of hot air though the vents. So you don't get that nice steady increase from cold as you do with the stock system. The EBP does help this though, quite alot. BUt the airlocks are making it hard to judge its performance and we need to address those before really evaluating it.

This is, again, uncharted territory which will undoubtedly yield further issues. But we solved the EWP equation and we can do this, and it'll be a better car. It may also turn out that fitting an EBP diesn't help much with the heater, in which case at least we'll know and we'll be able to share that knowlege.

But for anyone who wants to fit an main EWP, we know exactly how to go about it now and fook me does it work a treat!

Will.
 
It's a Will warmer:D
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1355483476.975756.jpg
 
Yeh that might have to do!! Mind you I was getting hot air all the way back even though when I switch off, the run-on sounded like a food blender inside an elephant's farty gut. So oince that freakin air is out I reckon it'll be sweet!
 
You just had to go there didn't you :D. Do you have a (non phallus related) tool in your inventory that we could inject or pump water in thorugh the bleed hole matey?
 
I found the best way to clear the air out of the heater/IRD cooler on my V6 was run the engine until the cooling system is pressurized then open the plead screw!! Although the water is scalding hot the pressure forces the air out along with some coolant but it works a treat.
 
Nodge68 said:
I found the best way to clear the air out of the heater/IRD cooler on my V6 was run the engine until the cooling system is pressurized then open the plead screw!! Although the water is scalding hot the pressure forces the air out along with some coolant but it works a treat.
Click to expand...

Yep been doing just that for half an hour :). Steady improment each time, but it's going to need several more cycles. You can tell when you've hit a juicy pocket of air as the coolant goes white with tiny bubbles and you can really hear it sprurbling.

But each time I do it the air in the blowers gets bit warmer, I left my IR thermo at DD's so I can't take measurements, bugger!

Also, the temp does get warmer steadily during the warmup cycle with the EBP. It's still sketchy because of the air but it's getting there :).

Will.
 
freelance said:
put a thermostat in your top rad hose, that will create a back pressure and raise coolant temp. for warmer cabin temp.
Click to expand...

Pointless mate, I have an eletric thermostat in the form of the independent cooling computer which regulates the rate of coolant flow and the fans to maintain a precise temperature no matter what you are doing.

Make no mistake this is a completely different system than what is on almost all other cars. In fact this type of digitised cooling system doesn't come on any car I know of, some mercs have booster pumps but all production cars are being made with a belt driven pump becausde it's cheaper. There are those who have questioned how effective the digital EWP system is but once it's set up properly and working it's fecking brilliant. I have no fear of traffic jams in 40 degrees in summer now. Nor thrashing the bastard round a rally circuit ;).

It's possible that a simple flow restrictor with a 32mm outer dia and a 10mm inner dia would solve the heater issue, but as I had the EBP anyway I installed it. I'm sure that it'll be an extremely effective system once it's all calibrated. It really does mean that the car will be able to handle a 190bhp turbo engine. I've talked to some very respected tuners about this project and they have all been really excited :).

I'm starting to see why almost all threads about EWP's around different forums end in failure, it requires enourmous persistance and it shouldn't be seen as a bolt on - the EWP is the beating heart of what needs to be an entirely re-designed circulatory system. People seem to be reluctant to go all in and rebuild the whole system like I have. When you move the pump the entire flow structre changes and everything has to be re-routed and re plumbed. So far as I can tell, we're the only ones (on the internet at least) who has got it working sweet in a production car. Why else would DC have been so grateful for my data? It's like no one had done it before, and I reckon most of the EWP's sold here have gone into Cateram's and track cars which don't have very complex cooling systems.
 
Last edited:
WLJayne said:
Pointless mate, I have an eletric thermostat in the form of the independent cooling computer which regulates the rate of coolant flow and the fans to maintain a precise temperature no matter what you are doing.

Make no mistake this is a completely different system than what is on almost all other cars. In fact this type of digitised cooling system doesn't come on any car I know of, some mercs have booster pumps but all production cars are being made with a belt driven pump becausde it's cheaper. There are those who have questioned how effective the digital EWP system is but once it's set up properly and working it's fecking brilliant. I have no fear of traffic jams in 40 degrees in summer now. Nor thrashing the bastard round a rally circuit ;).

It's possible that a simple flow restrictor with a 32mm outer dia and a 10mm inner dia would solve the heater issue, but as I had the EBP anyway I installed it. I'm sure that it'll be an extremely effective system once it's all calibrated. It really does mean that the car will be able to handle a 190bhp turbo engine. I've talked to some very respected tuners about this project and they have all been really excited :).

I'm starting to see why almost all threads about EWP's around different forums end in failure, it requires enourmous persistance and it shouldn't be seen as a bolt on - the EWP is the beating heart of what needs to be an entirely re-designed circulatory system. People seem to be reluctant to go all in and rebuild the whole system like I have. When you move the pump the entire flow structre changes and everything has to be re-routed and re plumbed. So far as I can tell, we're the only ones (on the internet at least) who has got it working sweet in a production car. Why else would DC have been so grateful for my data? It's like no one had done it before, and I reckon most of the EWP's sold here have gone into Cateram's and track cars which don't have very complex cooling systems.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are going to have a fast Freelander with 190 bhp!! Do bare in mind the 1.8 gearbox will need some of mods to make it stay in one piece with the best part of 200Ftlb of torque!! The standard box fails at around 150Ftlb!!
I'll look forward to seeing it all sorted.
 
Nodge68 said:
It sounds like you are going to have a fast Freelander with 190 bhp!! Do bare in mind the 1.8 gearbox will need some of mods to make it stay in one piece with the best part of 200Ftlb of torque!! The standard box fails at around 150Ftlb!!
I'll look forward to seeing it all sorted.
Click to expand...

The Rover 75 1.8T (which is where the engine will come from) has the same gearbox and it peaks at 220FtLb. But that's a discussion for another time, way, way down the line ;).

Will.
 
Quick question Will, I want to do an EWP installation as well, how do the flow rates for the belt pump compare to the EWP?
 
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