Electric Conversion....I don’t get it!!

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I think the changes that are coming are more complex. Firstly the motor industry are looking at the age of new car buyers and think that the next generation will not buy cars. They will lease, join car shares schemes, or use Uber,. This means cars do not need to appeal to private buyers. Tesla is already going this way, no annual model updates, very bland styling and they shifted 1,000,000 last year. EVs will be come white goods.
Look at new car ads and se if you can find a mass market car that advertises: how many cylinders, how many valves, where the cam is, what type of suspension it has, cost of s service.
Now look and see if you can find out how connected it is, facebook etc, how many speakers is has, how much it costs per month
Secondly there will be 2 really big spits - town vs country and 1st world vs rest. All our EV/hydrid debate is a town / 1st world issue. So far as I can tell no one knows how this will play out. The industry are working on the assumption that in a 1st world country all short journeys will be EV / electric bike / EV Uber / self driving (don't start me..) and all long ones by electric train. Once you stop owning cars this model works well. You drive your Tesla to the station, some one else drives it around your town, you pick one up where you are going and drive it to your meeting where it charges. Doesn't work in the countryside and it really won't help an African famer with his tractor.
We could be entering the "Post car ownership age", no driveways or garages, most living in flats, a car delivered (driverless?) on an app when you need it. Those of us who grew up, like our parents, wanting to own a car, will be seen as dinosaurs.
When these changes come I think they will come quickly, there will be a point when driving an ICE car in a city will be like drunk driving and it will simply stop.
Will city dwellers visit the countryside and be outraged to see "yokels" driving diesels? Will it become "fox hunting 2"? Will we visit Africa to look at farmers using diesel tractors and say to our grandchildren "can you believe we used to do that, how quaint?"
I don't think anyone has a clue, buckle up for bumpy ride!.
Agree completely with all of that.
 
There was a piece on the BBC news website today about an Isreali company that have developed a lithium ion battery for cars that can be charged in 5 minutes. Apparently they are due to showcase them soon at some automobile show.

Col
 
There was a piece on the BBC news website today about an Isreali company that have developed a lithium ion battery for cars that can be charged in 5 minutes. Apparently they are due to showcase them soon at some automobile show.

Col

That's so fast as to be virtually impossible.

Most new EVs go from 20% to 80% charged in less than 45 minutes, if a 50 kW fast charger at a service station is used.
 
That's so fast as to be virtually impossible.

Most new EVs go from 20% to 80% charged in less than 45 minutes, if a 50 kW fast charger at a service station is used.
I agree, it does sound impossible but according to the article, they are making them in China and have made 1000 so far.

Col
 
The only people who have cracked this are Tesla, I would argue because they are not a car company but a tech company. so they installed their charging stations before they sold the cars. The car makers are still relying on 3rd party companies to put the infrastructure in and its taking too long and often its broken. If VW want to match Tesla as they say they do they have to put in their own charging network.
The guy who set this up did a seminar last week. He's going to build a national network. But it ill take time and they need a lot (A LOT) of power. The numbers were scary.
https://www.gridserve.com/braintree-overview/
 
I agree, it does sound impossible but according to the article, they are making them in China and have made 1000 so far.

Col

Whilst there are companies developing batteries that charge almost instantly (basically like a capacitor), these batteries don't hold sufficient charge capacity to make them worthwhile. The EV battery may charge in a couple of minutes, but if the vehicle only travels for 10 miles, it's a pointless waste of time.
 
I think the changes that are coming are more complex. Firstly the motor industry are looking at the age of new car buyers and think that the next generation will not buy cars. They will lease, join car shares schemes, or use Uber,. This means cars do not need to appeal to private buyers. Tesla is already going this way, no annual model updates, very bland styling and they shifted 1,000,000 last year. EVs will be come white goods.
Look at new car ads and se if you can find a mass market car that advertises: how many cylinders, how many valves, where the cam is, what type of suspension it has, cost of s service.
Now look and see if you can find out how connected it is, facebook etc, how many speakers is has, how much it costs per month
Secondly there will be 2 really big spits - town vs country and 1st world vs rest. All our EV/hydrid debate is a town / 1st world issue. So far as I can tell no one knows how this will play out. The industry are working on the assumption that in a 1st world country all short journeys will be EV / electric bike / EV Uber / self driving (don't start me..) and all long ones by electric train. Once you stop owning cars this model works well. You drive your Tesla to the station, some one else drives it around your town, you pick one up where you are going and drive it to your meeting where it charges. Doesn't work in the countryside and it really won't help an African famer with his tractor.
We could be entering the "Post car ownership age", no driveways or garages, most living in flats, a car delivered (driverless?) on an app when you need it. Those of us who grew up, like our parents, wanting to own a car, will be seen as dinosaurs.
When these changes come I think they will come quickly, there will be a point when driving an ICE car in a city will be like drunk driving and it will simply stop.
Will city dwellers visit the countryside and be outraged to see "yokels" driving diesels? Will it become "fox hunting 2"? Will we visit Africa to look at farmers using diesel tractors and say to our grandchildren "can you believe we used to do that, how quaint?"
I don't think anyone has a clue, buckle up for bumpy ride!.
PS We have masses of oil, that's my industry, we have about 200 years at least. The industry expect to leave most of it behind. There is no reasonable way to burn the remaining oil and not create a huge climate problem. "Peak oil" will be peak acceptability not peak reserves. "The stone age did not end because they ran out of stone."

I agree with almost all of this. However, whilst don't dispute these changes will come, honestly cannot see them becoming truly mainstream in the next 20 years. That said, my ignorance may well be as a result of lack of understanding. If I am honest I am interested in learning about solar charging and wind power, but it is seems overwhelming!
 
I am getting ratty at goverment cuts in rail electrification.

Choice is between wiring a few miles or making the new trains hybrids, they are forcing new underfloor Diesels in so called express trains.

More cost long term, to save a couple of million now.

BTW the 40 Y/O Diesels are more comfortable and they made the drivers drive them slower to give the new ones a chance.
 
I think a better idea for cars is an infrastructure which can charge on the go, or simply keep them running without battery.

Railways do it, trams do it, trolley buses do it.

Motorways should have a trolley system for lorries.
 
PS We have masses of oil, that's my industry, we have about 200 years at least. The industry expect to leave most of it behind. There is no reasonable way to burn the remaining oil and not create a huge climate problem. "Peak oil" will be peak acceptability not peak reserves. "The stone age did not end because they ran out of stone."
Agree with Rob on this and I have also read that there is more coal left under the UK than has already been mined.
The issue is cost of recovery and of course emission's.
Unfortunately many of his other comments are likely to become true also. :(
 
i dont get it either.
yes it has some merit, but to me can only be a passing fad,
there isnt enough extension leads in the world to charge the proposed amounts of lecky vehicles
has anyone done a cost / time in motion study of the mining of the 'stuff' buried in the earth to make the batteries for these vehicles..
oh yeah the vast majority of the giant mining equipment vehicles burn what ?...
and where does most of the power from the power stations come from..especially in china..india.america ..etc.. they burn something !
given the amount of time we spend in a car compared to how much time we spend in our homes trying to keep warm or cook or see, you would think that our governments would actually make solar panels far easier and much cheaper for us to buy and own, instead of the ' schemes' they have,such as the rentals,
then continually reduce the feed in tariff we get back,( ask someone who had them installed say 15 years ago, ask what is their feed in tariff, because its pants now)
and prohibitive, then we wouldnt be so reliant and any lecky left over goes into the grid on a much much Bigger scale.
re cars i think as usual we are going about things in an arse about face way of causing more head aches..
didnt the first model t fords run on ethanol benzene kerosine then gasoline ( had the ability to use them all, without being designed as a multi fuel engine)
and didnt top gear make a saab run on alcohol/ethanol, from memory, with some reprogramming of the ecu against a petrol version and the results were quite staggering
and wasnt the by products water, far les poluting
yes there is a difference in the calorific heat energy values of petrol alcohol ethanol etc, but its been proven,and well do able givern modern ecu's timing and black magic and witchery thats installed in electric stuff, and we dont need to go to war for it either.
its just my opinion and others may disagree, but would love to hear either way
 
But not even close to being enough. That’s my point.
Ive never struggled to find one for my tesla however Im sure that when petrol vehicles became popular, there weren't enough petrol stations around at some point. Far easier to install a few charge points on the street than to equip all petrol stations with hydrogen tanks. Then there's the facilities to generate the hydrogen, then there's the losses in the system , pressure bleed off on storage tanks and deliveries, far more inefficient and cheaper than using electricity directly. electric cars may not be perfect in all applications but they are for around town. Not to mention blowing off 99.9% of all other cars (unless its another tesla) off at the lights.:)
 
BUT Electricity is the devils fuel and is killing the planet.................This from a statement issued by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders


Responding to a YouGov poll, 87% of UK adults said they were unaware of the latest Euro-6 vehicle emission technology, while 54% incorrectly blamed cars and commercial vehicles as the biggest cause of air pollution in the UK. Just under one in five (19%) of people surveyed correctly identified power stations as the biggest contributors of nitrogen oxides (NOx). In fact, it would take 42 million Euro-6 diesel cars (almost four times the number on the roads) to generate the same amount of NOx as one UK coal-fired power station.

We dont have any more coal fired stations in normal operation
 
Ive never struggled to find one for my tesla however Im sure that when petrol vehicles became popular, there weren't enough petrol stations around at some point. Far easier to install a few charge points on the street than to equip all petrol stations with hydrogen tanks. Then there's the facilities to generate the hydrogen, then there's the losses in the system , pressure bleed off on storage tanks and deliveries, far more inefficient and cheaper than using electricity directly. electric cars may not be perfect in all applications but they are for around town. Not to mention blowing off 99.9% of all other cars (unless its another tesla) off at the lights.:)

Seriously, are you seriously suggesting you have never had an issue finding a charging point? I can log on to my ChargeCar and Pod-Point App now and guarantee the vast majority are off or are having technical difficulties.

I disagree, there is far more scope to deliver a Hydrogen infrastructure than with the EV infrastructure. The beauty of Hydrogen is its efficiency and ability to improve its delivery. As I see it, the EV infrastructure has far more restrictions to enable it to be an all consuming answer.
 
Seriously, are you seriously suggesting you have never had an issue finding a charging point? I can log on to my ChargeCar and Pod-Point App now and guarantee the vast majority are off or are having technical difficulties.

I disagree, there is far more scope to deliver a Hydrogen infrastructure than with the EV infrastructure. The beauty of Hydrogen is its efficiency and ability to improve its delivery. As I see it, the EV infrastructure has far more restrictions to enable it to be an all consuming answer.

No , never been unable to charge. As for hydrogen, where do you think that comes from? Its made from electrolysis and as its nowhere near as efficient a process from start to finish, you need alot more electricity than directly charging ev batteries. So you need more power stations, windmills etc., sort of partially defeating the whole point of it
 
No , never been unable to charge. As for hydrogen, where do you think that comes from? Its made from electrolysis and as its nowhere near as efficient a process from start to finish, you need alot more electricity than directly charging ev batteries. So you need more power stations, windmills etc., sort of partially defeating the whole point of it
But only at source. ....I think!!:oops:
 
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